Old gods and the black empire... disappointed.

[Archmage Xaxxas]

Uldir, Crucible of Storms, Eternal Palace and Nya'lotha are all Old God themed. That's 4/5 raids this expansion being Black Empire related. Even if the story felt like too much of a faction-conflict expansion, the proof is in the pudding for what kind of expansion it was.

Tbh even Crucible, Palace and Nya'lotha back to back as Old God content feels overdone.

[The Saar]

If anyone wants a Black empire expansion then they better hope that N'zoth planned on being defeated by us, otherwise the Old God credibility is completely gone.
We already defeated C'thun and Yogg-Saron, and even with themn not being fully released they were still supposed to be more powerful than N'zoth, meaning that old god brawns is meaningless, leaving only Old God brains as a viable measure of threat, and that was supposed to be N'zoths greatest asset.

If N'zoth is trily defeated and Xal'atath returns for a Black empire expansion then Old Gods may as well be end of zone dungeon bosses for all the threat the present.

Yeah I mean... thats what Im hoping. That he had planned this all along just to trick us. Blizzard has even stated that N'zoth was the greatest trickster/deceiver of the Old gods, and "defeat" could often work in his favour!

[Houle]

Pre BfA: Nyalotha, sleeping city of the old gods, deep beneath the waves, lies the remnants of the Black Empire, home of slumbering faceless ones and unimaginable horrors, to enter is to invite madness into your mind

Post BfA: ITS JUST A DIMENSION LIKE THE EMERALD DREAM PURPLE FILTER LOOOL

this basically sums it up.
also, anyone else finds it funny hoiw blizz just said "fck it" and used the same explanation for both nyalotha AND shadowlands?
both are now a different dimension, seperated from Azeroth by a thin veil, which is torn down. n'zoth is tearing the veil between nyalotha and azeroth down in 8.3, sylvanas is tearing the veil between shadowlands and azeroth down in/before 9.0
they used the same description and basic way of getting there (tearing down some "veil"), its the epitome of laziness lmao

[The Saar]

Uldir, Crucible of Storms, Eternal Palace and Nya'lotha are all Old God themed. That's 4/5 raids this expansion being Black Empire related. Even if the story felt like too much of a faction-conflict expansion, the proof is in the pudding for what kind of expansion it was.

Tbh even Crucible, Palace and Nya'lotha back to back as Old God content feels overdone.

Yeah thats what Im saying... If this was THE old god expansion... then I have lost so much hope in the company...

I mean they have been on thin ice for a while now. I guess this would seal the deal. Unless all of their future work with wow/diablo(the only blizz games I care about) is going to be fantastic! :P

[Temp1on2]

this basically sums it up.
also, anyone else finds it funny hoiw blizz just said "fck it" and used the same explanation for both nyalotha AND shadowlands?
both are now a different dimension, seperated from Azeroth by a thin veil, which is torn down. n'zoth is tearing the veil between nyalotha and azeroth down in 8.3, sylvanas is tearing the veil between shadowlands and azeroth down in/before 9.0
they used the same description and basic way of getting there (tearing down some "veil"), its the epitome of laziness lmao

I mean...every expansion functions effectively like this though? With the exception of Cata none of the expansion zones are 'within' the world (they're all instanced) and Outland/WoD even have a portal to another world. Lots of things to criticise Blizz for, simply saying the realm of lovecraft inspired void creatures or the after-life is another dimension isn't one of them lol.

[ro9ue]

8.3 will arguably be the greatest patch on retail. If you take time to analyze everything being brought to 8.3, then you'd see that it's easily the largest content update in WoW history.

I'm looking forward to it.

I don't see how, by any metric whatsoever, that claim can be made.

[deenman]

So... honestly I don't have anything against the upcoming expansion Shadowlands. But fucking seriously... we waited all this time with this shitty expansion for the coming of the old gods and black empire... And all we got is some invasions and a raid... disappointed to say the least...
(Actually we waited far longer than just this expansion. Blizzard have hinted at the old gods since vanilla I think)

I mean... In legion we atleast went to Argus which was a whole different zone + the raid... I thought blizzard would would make some more effort with the whole old god theme... If this is the last we get with the old god N'zoth and the black empire... Then I have lost much hope.

I REALLY hope they will surprise me and they got much more content with the black empire... Becuse If it's simply a raid(Ny'alotha) and nothing more... wow...

yeah I rly dont like some of these patch choices,black empire should be an expansion theme,same with argus

[Chromell]

can i have what ever you are on? sure they actually got rid of the infinity grind, but corruption is still a horrible mechanic, classes are still boring and pvp is continued to be ignored.

They're talking about content though. Class balance/fun (this latter being subjective) and Corruption as a mechanic are not content.

[Archmage Xaxxas]

Yeah thats what Im saying... If this was THE old god expansion... then I have lost so much hope in the company...

I mean they have been on thin ice for a while now. I guess this would seal the deal. Unless all of their future work with wow/diablo(the only blizz games I care about) is going to be fantastic! :P

So would you have preferred one big Argus-Style Zone Patch with a raid vs the 4 Old God Raids we got?
I suppose if you really dig that stuff, you could even argue for wanting every raid to be Old God themed like Legion. Though I'm glad Battle for Dazar'alor was free of N'zoth's influence.

You also should think long term, like N'zoth and the Old Gods did. Because really, a bit of Vanilla and Wrath, and then Cataclysm and Battle for Azeroth make up the Old God storyline with plenty to indulge yourself in. It's about as much as the Legion got inside of WoW specifically.

However, I'd note the fact that Gorak Tul's head seems to have the interesting N'zoth eyes same as Azshara did.
Found this while looking for reference pics, so plenty of people have seen this:


N'zoth probably cheated Death in one way or another. Either through Helya or Gorak Tul who knows. just relax and wait it out like he intended.

[clevin]

The problem was and is that they tried to haul out the faction war and it's bullshit. We all new from the get go that neither faction could really win, so what was the point? Gee, I wonder if the two factions will work together against a world ending threat?

Look, I've not played retail in months, but as far as I can tell our Titan still has a sword stuck in her and we still haven't cured her, right?

[Houle]

I mean...every expansion functions effectively like this though? With the exception of Cata none of the expansion zones are 'within' the world (they're all instanced) and Outland/WoD even have a portal to another world. Lots of things to criticise Blizz for, simply saying the realm of lovecraft inspired void creatures or the after-life is another dimension isn't one of them lol.

Not what i meant. First of all, the only expansion where we went to "another dimension" before was WoD. BC was just a different world, WotLK was a different continent (still on Azeroth), Cata was Azeroth, MoP was a new continent, legion was a new continent+planet and Bfa was again new continents (until 8.3). With the exception of WoD, all of them still played in our universe, just on different planets and continents. Ofc all of them are "instanced" like every continent is.

What i meant is just the way we got to Nyalotha and shadowlands. Its just the same random "oh lul theres like a thin vail which has been broken, now we are in the different dimension lul."
They used the same concept for both Nyalotha and shadowlands, and you cant tell me its random that they suddenly used "veil seperating us from smth has now been broken" for 2 major new places to visit in a row. They had to think up a what nyalotha actually was, and how we were gonna get there+to the shadowlands, and they just used the same thing for both of them, because it was the easiest way out.

[Temp1on2]

Not what i meant. First of all, the only expansion where we went to "another dimension" before was WoD. BC was just a different world, WotLK was a different continent (still on Azeroth), Cata was Azeroth, MoP was a new continent, legion was a new continent+planet and Bfa was again new continents (until 8.3). With the exception of WoD, all of them still played in our universe, just on different planets and continents. Ofc all of them are "instanced" like every continent is.

What i meant is just the way we got to Nyalotha and shadowlands. Its just the same random "oh lul theres like a thin vail which has been broken, now we are in the different dimension lul."
They used the same concept for both Nyalotha and shadowlands, and you cant tell me its random that they suddenly used "veil seperating us from smth has now been broken" for 2 major new places to visit in a row. They had to think up a what nyalotha actually was, and how we were gonna get there+to the shadowlands, and they just used the same thing for both of them, because it was the easiest way out.

My point was that that is basically the same explanation for every expansion.

TBC: Oh the dark portal just happened to activate and we go there.
WOtlK Oh we've been ignoring Northrend, an entire content full of cultures and important artefacts, for x amount of years and now we're going there
Cata: the exception, everywhere we go is *in* the world.
MoP: oh we just *happened* to run into a island that's never been seen or heard of before.
WoD: Oh the dark portal is now a time/reality portal and we're going there.
Legion: Oh we just *happen* to run into a set of islands that we've never been to before, but have an entire continent's worth of cultures and important artefacts, again.
BfA: Oh we're just now going to a set of islands that we've never been to before. yet again. (I suppose at least with BfA the Zandalar had actually been active in the world before this).

The 'broken veil' is just a plot contrivance like all the other expansion explanations. In fact, them being in an entirely separate dimension makes far more sense as to why we haven't been there before - because we literal couldn't go there before the veil broke.

[Aeula]

Old Gods have always been filler content. I don't see why you're so surprised.

[Th3Scourge]

Nyalotha 100% should've been the next expansion. Instead it's been relegated to just a raid.

[SNES-1990]

There are many other Old Gods we've yet to encounter, not necessarily all of them need to be on Azeroth. If you remember from BC, we thwarted the summoning of an unknown Old God into Shadowmoon Valley.

[Pandragon]

Argus was actually worse. We went to the Legions home world and barely faced any kind of resistance. The entire Argus thing should have been like Isle of Thunder but on a much larger scale. Most of the bosses in the raid could have been world bosses that lead up to the raid which is just Aggramar, Kil'jaeden(he should not have died in Tomb, which is a raid that shouldn't have existed), and Argus. Aggramars fight and Argus's fight was fine. KJs should have been a split raid fight where one group fights demons on Aggramars platform, while the others mount the Lightforged warmachines and bombard his ship. After his ship goes down, he falls into beneath the platform and emerges and his next phase is similar to the Sunwell fight.

100% agree. But with the „Bli$$ard“ of the last few years, i expected nothing else then:

It's not entirely Blizzard. Activision wants them bringing in money while spending as little as possible. They have to do what the shareholders want them to do.

[GreenJesus]

They wasted too much of the expansion on the faction battle. The last, I dunno, 3 patches should've be completely Old-God.

This expansion should have been : "Sargeras' sword has empowered the old gods and made Azeroth's defense weak. Cthun, Yogg saron, Nzoth, etc are empowered and stronger than ever. Azshara is raising the black empire from the depths of the ocean." Just ignore the whole faction bullshit and focus on what actually matters. Zandalar and Kul'tiras are the closest to the newly raised lands by Azshara so they can be used as a forward base for the Horde / alliance to attack the black empire. They have ships that we don't have to be able to reach the black empire. We need to befriend them before they trust us. Thought of that in 10 seconds. Makes far more sense than the entire faction war being focus on Kul'tiras and Zandalar anyway.

[Orby]

All because they wanted Garrosh 20.

Just realised I mentioned Xal'atath instead of Ny'alotha lol. Glad you at least knew what I meant though

[Sezh]

People will be bored of it quickly cause it's pointless to grind gear which will be completely replaced anyway with the new expansion.

So you're basically describing WoW

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with everything being focused on mobile-oriented mission boards and grinding world quests or "artifact power."

Willful ignorance must be a powerful drug if it makes a person write things like this. Mission boards have been dying steadily since they were introduced and will be dead come next expansion, and AP is getting executed come next patch.

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Argus was actually worse. We went to the Legions home world and barely faced any kind of resistance. The entire Argus thing should have been like Isle of Thunder but on a much larger scale. Most of the bosses in the raid could have been world bosses that lead up to the raid which is just Aggramar, Kil'jaeden(he should not have died in Tomb, which is a raid that shouldn't have existed), and Argus. Aggramars fight and Argus's fight was fine. KJs should have been a split raid fight where one group fights demons on Aggramars platform, while the others mount the Lightforged warmachines and bombard his ship. After his ship goes down, he falls into beneath the platform and emerges and his next phase is similar to the Sunwell fight.

For me, the moment the Legion turned from chaotically evil Demons that are summoned from another plane of existence into an alien civilization with space ships, the Burning Legion was ruined. Legion was the best expansion gameplay wise but for me personally the worst expansion lore wise.

[JJShadoe]

I REALLY hope they will surprise me and they got much more content with the black empire... Becuse If it's simply a raid(Ny'alotha) and nothing more... wow...

Big, big agree.

I've been hoping for a Black Empire ex-pac for years, and I'm sorely disappointed the N'zoth storyline is culminating in what amounts to a transitional patch without even its own zone.

It would appear, strangely enough, that N'zoth was better off and much more powerful/effective when he was imprisoned, which is terrible storytelling. If BfA were more directly leading up to N'zoth it'd feel gratifying, but N'zoth's only been the B or even C storyline, and now his appearance is overshadowed by Shadowlands & the A storyline of Sylvanas.

Real shame. What a waste of potential. They could have milked an entire expansion out of the return of the Black Empire but instead we get a limp patch before an expansion that takes place in... the afterlife? Sigh. At least there are some good titles, mounts, mogs and pets coming. Womp-womp.

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This expansion should have been : "Sargeras' sword has empowered the old gods and made Azeroth's defense weak. Cthun, Yogg saron, Nzoth, etc are empowered and stronger than ever. Azshara is raising the black empire from the depths of the ocean." Just ignore the whole faction bullshit and focus on what actually matters. Zandalar and Kul'tiras are the closest to the newly raised lands by Azshara so they can be used as a forward base for the Horde / alliance to attack the black empire. They have ships that we don't have to be able to reach the black empire. We need to befriend them before they trust us. Thought of that in 10 seconds. Makes far more sense than the entire faction war being focus on Kul'tiras and Zandalar anyway.

Amen. /10chars