What rewards does raiding need to make it more appealing?

[Alcsaar]

Does it need to be more appealing? Feel like its generally pretty popular as is.

I'd argue that other things need more appeal, like running mythic dungeons more than once a week just for the cache, etc.

[ydraw]

Which is exactly my point. The effort you put into heroic raids far more than what you'd put into a a mythic+ to obtain the same ilvl gear.

No. It's just that you're playing with far worse players in your heroic raids. If you were playing M+ with those players it would take an ungodly amount of time too.

If you did a heroic raid with 15 people with 1000+ .io score you'd clear the whole raid in under an hour.

- - - Updated - - -

At the very start of BC? Sure.

If you where doing kara halfway through BC you where doing it because you where too bad to gear up otherwise. You didn't even need much gear at all to down the early loot pinatas in SSC and TK.

You could have all the gear in the world, you couldn't kill those bosses with 5 people because everyone interested in raiding was in Black Temple and you weren't attuned.

[mechfan]

Raiding needs to be fun!

[Ticj]

No. It's just that you're playing with far worse players in your heroic raids. If you were playing M+ with those players it would take an ungodly amount of time too.

If you did a heroic raid with 15 people with 1000+ .io score you'd clear the whole raid in under an hour.

- - - Updated - - -



You could have all the gear in the world, you couldn't kill those bosses with 5 people because everyone interested in raiding was in Black Temple and you weren't attuned.

My guild literally cleared heroic the first week it was out. So how about you piss off with that. The issue is that a +10 (which is so incredibly easy to do) nets you a 440 item level each week, and then if you spam +10's you can get a full set of heroic level gear. This makes it so every difficulty but mythic raiding is marginalized, as even the most casual player is going to have a item level equivalent to heroic raiding within only a couple of weeks of the new tier being out.

It makes it so raiding goes on farm much quicker, and if you want some kind of challenge with raiding you are stuck doing mythic raids, which is not for most players.

[Bodakane]

Its not about rewards. its about the time commitment and finding a raiding group you mesh well with.

With the smaller player base, it is easier to find 4 people then 9 or more.

[ydraw]

My guild literally cleared heroic the first week it was out. So how about you piss off with that. The issue is that a +10 (which is so incredibly easy to do) nets you a 440 item level each week, and then if you spam +10's you can get a full set of heroic level gear. This makes it so every difficulty but mythic raiding is marginalized, as even the most casual player is going to have a item level equivalent to heroic raiding within only a couple of weeks of the new tier being out.

It makes it so raiding goes on farm much quicker, and if you want some kind of challenge with raiding you are stuck doing mythic raids, which is not for most players.

The most casual players can't "spam 10's" though. They can't even get their key to a 10. They can however, get carried through heroic raids.

If you're clearing heroic in the first week, then you've also got item level equivalent to heroic raiding within a couple of weeks. So what's the problem?

You clearly just think raiding should be better rewarded because "reasons", when in fact heroic raiding is a lot easier than doing M+10s is.

I don't get why you think you're so fucking important that they should remove all the content from the game just so that you can artificially inflate the difficulty of Heroic raids.

[Lothaeryn]

I fail to see how their profesion is anymore "dead" then LW, Tailoring and BS. They can still make jewelry- you know what the profession was originally intended to do, just like those other professions can make gear. Even then those specs had things like leg armor enchants completely removed from the game, at least you still have gems in some form.

If anything you sound mad that JC is not a free I win button for gold like the old days.

Itd be one thing if the rings could be crafted with specific stats; due to the amount of resources spent making them its really a sunk cost on resource to craft them on the hopes its valuable.

And having the option to craft a single socket(as an example), is far more concrete value than the offchance an RNG generated ring, that requires even more RNG to generate the resources needed, has worth; it is insanely disadvantaged compared to direct resource consumption like BS and LW. Its a money pit even when it has potential to be lucrative. And those rings seldom sell for anything more than 100k on the AH.

All professions should have more concrete value for resources and potential income, not just Jewelcrafting. RNG based professions are just outright garbage to begin with and is unrewarding aside from trying to generate that skinnerbox high for the delusional.

[Ticj]

The most casual players can't "spam 10's" though. They can't even get their key to a 10. They can however, get carried through heroic raids.

If you're clearing heroic in the first week, then you've also got item level equivalent to heroic raiding within a couple of weeks. So what's the problem?

You clearly just think raiding should be better rewarded because "reasons", when in fact heroic raiding is a lot easier than doing M+10s is.

I don't get why you think you're so fucking important that they should remove all the content from the game just so that you can artificially inflate the difficulty of Heroic raids.

The bolded is my problem with it. Mythic+ inflates everyone's item level way too quickly into a tier.

[Osmeric]

t for fact that unbeaten content what you have never experienced creates desire to keep playing regardless if you will end up raiding or not.

That is more bullshit than "fact". When a player realizes the content is going to be out of their reach, it doesn't retain them, it drives them away.

[Syegfryed]

drop something maybe? like you can do an entire raid and drop a single item, and this item the the same you dropped last weak, or be worse than what you already have, it sucks all my motivation to raid

[freddy090909]

That is more bullshit than "fact". When a player realizes the content is going to be out of their reach, it doesn't retain them, it drives them away.

Just quoting to agree with this. TBH I don't care how hard the raid is for the world first guilds; if you have bosses taking 300+ pulls, which is many weeks of extending and wiping, a lot of people are just going to be miserable. Holding people through all of those wipes is a huge undertaking. I know guilds refusing to rekill Azshara, simply because the effort needed to make it happen again is not worth sacrificing time off.

[Elias01]

That is more bullshit than "fact". When a player realizes the content is going to be out of their reach, it doesn't retain them, it drives them away.

And classic proves you wrong.

[kaminaris]

And classic proves you wrong.

LOL NO XD. It actually proves him right.

[Elias01]

I'm not sure what the specific numbers were, but they did in fact say that organised raiding was(and still is) only done by a very small fraction of the player base.

What they did not say is that this is just a myth.

Whether unbeatable content creates desire to keep playing is mere speculation by you. But their attempts in Cataclysm to get people to deal with harder dungeons suggests the opposite.

There is difference in players bitching on forums becouse something takes effort but they still play the game and have fun and players not bitching on forums becouse they got their covinience but quits game becouse of boredom. Thats why you never use players feesback as something what should be done. Players are not game designers. They dont know what they want and what is good for the game. Their feedback is based on what is good for them which in many cases hurts game.

And desire created by having unbeaten content is not speculation. Old wow devs confirmes this several times. Hell you can ask Kevin Jorden on stream about it if you want he will tell you same thing.

[huth]

There is difference in players bitching on forums becouse something takes effort but they still play the game and have fun and players not bitching on forums becouse they got their covinience but quits game becouse of boredom. Thats why you never use players feesback as something what should be done. Players are not game designers. They dont know what they want and what is good for the game. Their feedback is based on what is good for them which in many cases hurts game.

Yes, there is a difference. Bitching generally gets ignored, people actually quitting or making proper arguments gets things changed.

Your conclusions are incorrect, though. Player feedback still has value for identifying areas that need to be looked at. It just isn't very useful for actually fixing the issues most of the time.