Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker

[Elim Garak]

Nonsense, there are things you simply can't test for yourself by just going into a shop. No car dealer will let you drive a car for 50k miles to determine typical wear and tear stuff, that is why you read reviews.

Any reasonable thing can be tested at the shop. No reviewer can tell you what kind of wear and tear you will get in YOUR car after 50k miles. That's just stupid to even imply.

Samsungs fold phones were torn apart by reviewers because they simply didn't hold what they promised and that only came to light because people rigorously used them, also something you won't learn by just going to shop and fiddling with it for 5 minutes.

Sure you can. You can clearly test if a folding phone is what you want. And if it breaks later - you RtM it. Like with anything else - no amount of reviews can fix that. Maybe they were using it wrong. Maybe it is really that fragile. But by getting it for yourself and using it (if you want it duh) - you have your own opinion, rather than relying on someone else's.

The trick with reviews is to find a source you trust or who are at least capable of describing things in a neutral way, I've seen plenty of reviews I disagreed with but I still got the information I needed from them.

Yeah, the trick is to apply to the herd with the shepherd you like. Echo chamber.

The only reason I use reviews is - I hate shopping, so I just look at what the product is like - and technical specs (which are objective) I skip all the subjective stuff, I don't care who the reviewer is. I just google the product and look for what I need to see about the product. I do research not opinion hunt. If I liked shopping - I would just go to the shop and take the product in my own hands.

Your gotcha moment really isn't one.

Not a single sheeple admits being one. That's the shepherd's trick. Every sheeple thinks they are not.

As for the "ritual", I wasn't aware you can flip between "light side body" and "dark side body" in a matter of seconds. This is totally not some hare-brained bullshit to create pseudo-tension, which already made little sense when Kenobi and Qui-Gon pulled similar nonsense for force ghost ascension, my bad.

You can totally go dark side in a snap in a fit of anger. You can switch back as fast as well, that's why Jedi don't become Sith after just one slip. But palps only needed Rey to be in that mode for a little while.

[Endus]

If seems unlikely that it has any thing to do with dark side essences or light side body’s given that we have had a few Possessions in the new canon If I had to guess I’d say the ritual was meant to corrupt her not possess her kinda like the son does to Ashoka but though different means.

Something people conveniently forget is that the Force itself is an active factor. And the Force is both Light and Dark. Anakin's fall to the Dark Side was not just Anakin deciding to be psycho and kill a bunch of people. It wasn't just psychological manipulation by Palpatine. There was a magical, godlike Force that was pushing him. The same Force that literally created him in his mother's womb, without a father being required.

What the Dark Side needs is not subjugation before it. It needs a crack in the wall to worm itself into, where it can get a hold and expand. And that's what Palpatine is basically talking about; if Rey strikes him down in anger and hatred (as was true for Luke, before her), the Dark Side is going to exploit that crack and she'll be lost to it. Not necessarily immediately, but the damage would be done, and her fate sealed from that point.

TRoS is unclear as to whether Palpatine was actually plotting a possession, or just that Rey would become the locus for all the Sith energies in the Dark Side, as she did for all the Jedi influences in the Light Side to fight him. I think the way it played out suggests the latter pretty strongly, though. She was on a knife's edge, and whichever way she tipped in that moment determined how things would play out. The way Palpatine describes it is exactly what Rey eventually experiences; the difference is which set of voices are speaking to/through her.

[Elim Garak]

If seems unlikely that it has any thing to do with dark side essences or light side body’s given that we have had a few Possessions in the new canon If I had to guess I’d say the ritual was meant to corrupt her not possess her kinda like the son does to Ashoka but though different means.

We don't know that he was actually speaking the truth, to begin with. But if he were - he didn't want to possess her (a temporary thing but a welcome one), he wanted a complete transfer. He wanted her body for himself. Son was the embodiment of the dark side. It wasn't just some random dude with a Sith syndrome who wanted to live forever.

Do note, once he realized Ben and Rey had a force bond - he immediately changed the plan to just suck them dry and use his own body. Resourceful son of a bitch.

[PACOX]

This would be an interesting topic for them to explore. Such a force of ineptitude coming into existence should have quite a tale to it.

I don't think we'll ever see that period on screen in movie form based on how how they characterized it so far.

Right now it's "The First Order had a brilliant propaganda and spy network in the New Republic."

You could do a good political/spy show but not without people saying 'that's not Star Wars!.' If the Cassian show does well I think there's a chance we'll get that show.

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We don't know that he was actually speaking the truth, to begin with. But if he were - he didn't want to possess her (a temporary thing but a welcome one), he wanted a complete transfer. He wanted her body for himself. Son was the embodiment of the dark side. It wasn't just some random dude with a Sith syndrome who wanted to live forever.

Do note, once he realized Ben and Rey had a force bond - he immediately changed the plan to just suck them dry and use his own body. Resourceful son of a bitch.

I'm leaning on the side of him telling the truth and in fact doing some sort of Sith ritual. Sidious doesn't really mess around when it comes to the Sith. Disney Sidious, EU Sidious didn't really give a damn.

Disney is transparent with the clues they leave. Sith rituals and magic has been something that's popped up quite a few times before the movie came out. Even Kylo's murder of his father was said to be a Sith ritual.

Introducing the Force heal/essence transfer in the Mandalorian or the opening dialog with Sidious doing all the voices wasn't subtle either. I believe they wanted you to make the connection that the head Sith embodied all the Sith before them and they transferred that essence to their apprentice. Sidious would be a part of Rey, but so would Plagueis, Bane, whoever was in between.

They are also hinting at a deeper dive into the Sith.

[Jetstream]

They aren't at 4 billion in profits yet, which is the cut-even point for the sale, though that sale was 7 years ago, so even that's not "even" as you have to consider 7 years of lost time without profit. Then you look at movies like Solo that lost money straight up, and that's what sent Disney in a panic. Their hope in recovering their billions is in making blockbusters, like they did with Marvel, and if their "Star Wars Stories" start losing money before they even drawn even, that's a big loss for the company.

The point I was making is that Disney has a vested interest in making movies that the Star Wars fans like and will pay to see. To anyone that thinks the Disney execs are in their smoke filled, dimly lit board room thinking about ways to anger fans and drive them away. That's not happening.

What makes you think they haven’t made their money back yet? Are we not remembering that merchandise sales make a hell of a lot more than movie grosses?

[Ragedaug]

What makes you think they haven’t made their money back yet? Are we not remembering that merchandise sales make a hell of a lot more than movie grosses?

Because they aren't even close with movie ticket sales, and toys sales & books/comic (merchandising) sales are way down.

[Elim Garak]

I'm leaning on the side of him telling the truth and in fact doing some sort of Sith ritual. Sidious doesn't really mess around when it comes to the Sith. Disney Sidious, EU Sidious didn't really give a damn.

Disney is transparent with the clues they leave. Sith rituals and magic has been something that's popped up quite a few times before the movie came out. Even Kylo's murder of his father was said to be a Sith ritual.

Introducing the Force heal/essence transfer in the Mandalorian or the opening dialog with Sidious doing all the voices wasn't subtle either. I believe they wanted you to make the connection that the head Sith embodied all the Sith before them and they transferred that essence to their apprentice. Sidious would be a part of Rey, but so would Plagueis, Bane, whoever was in between.

They are also hinting at a deeper dive into the Sith.

I don't think the top Sith embodies all the previous Sith, more like sucks their power. They are individualists, the survival of the fittest. As demonstrated by the cosmic lightning. The only way for them to use someone's ghost is to enslave it. (Like in SWTOR Inquisitor arc which actually also deals with "soul" transfer and it did involve the ritual and a device - and Inquisitor was modeled after Palpatine, I don't think it's a coincidence)

[segara82]

What makes you think they haven’t made their money back yet? Are we not remembering that merchandise sales make a hell of a lot more than movie grosses?

The merch sales that have tanked since TLJ? Worse than AotC? Yeah, sorry, even with tRoS making a billion $ Disney had a hard time breaking even if you remember that the rights to SW alone cost them 4 billion $, add the costs for the movies, advertisement and such ...
It took them 2 movies and 6 years just to recoup the 4 billions for the rights. China, a big market, is estimated to only bring in 20 millions for tRoS, IP-Man 4 is slaughtering them.

[Shadowferal]

‘Rise Of Skywalker’ Tops $800M, But ‘Force Awakens’ Set The Bar Too High For ‘Star Wars’

The Rise of Skywalker certainly looks like a film made either by folks who didn’t like The Last Jedi or believed that the “Rian Johnson ruined Star Wars!” YouTube/Twitter brigade represented the general audience consensus. It also feels made by folks who thought that The Force Awakens was a repeatable target, whereby if they just made a Star Wars movie that felt more like J.J. Abrams’ Force Awakens than Rian Johnson’s Last Jedi than they would get grosses closer to Force Awakens (or at least Jurassic World) as opposed to Last Jedi/Rogue One numbers. This is not unlike believing that a Justice League movie that looked and felt like Diet Avengers could hit Avengers-level box office.

The Rise of Skywalker became, be it due to Disney meddling, Lucasfilm panicking, a returning director who wanted to go back to his own story ideas or all of the above, something intended to please everyone (like The Force Awakens) that ended up pleasing no one (like Justice League). It’s not a flop, and it’ll make money. But the franchise is now on the defensive right when it needs the benefit of the doubt as Disney begins making “non-Skywalker” Star Wars movies. As a movie nerd, it’s problematic that the Star Wars video game (Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order) and the Star Wars TV show (The Mandalorian) were both noticeably better than the Star Wars movie.

The thing that saved Star Wars, The Force Awakens with its crowd-pleasing nostalgia and New Hope meets King Arthur vibes, maybe have doomed it. It grossed so much money that it convinced Disney and friends that such a thing was plausible. It made a (false) case that original trilogy nostalgia and stories aimed not at newer or younger Star Wars fans but at those who never moved past Return of the Jedi, was the key to global domination. They thought they were making Avengers: Endgame, or at least Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part II. Instead, we ended up with the Star Wars equivalent of the How I Met Your Mother series finale.

[Darththeo]

And if you think those people make up any meaningful number of people, you live in seleration from reality.

I wonder why characters like Wonder Woman weren't given the same treatment despite being a woman.

Interesting word: Meaningful ... it allows you any wiggle room you want. Even if I show a number I find to be meaningful, you can wave it off because it isn't meaningful to you. Such a subjective word.

And Wonder Woman has been given the same treatment, just because in that case it was drown out by praise doesn't mean it didn't happen. The issue is there are less people raving about the sequel trilogy in comparison to Wonder Woman. Yeah, the only person separated from reality ... is you.

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Seems pretty clear cut to me... If a female being called a "mary sue" isn't sexist than what is the male equivalent? Why is it never used as an insult toward male characters? It doesn't even fit with Rey, because a Mary Sue has no flaws when it is clear Rey as a protagonist has flaws. I have yet to hear anyone call Super-Man a Mary Sue. Just saying.

Technically, Mary Sue is gender neutral as it comes from a character in a very bad Star Trek fan fic named Mary Sue. People do use Marty Stu, Gary Sue, etc ... but Mary Sue is appropriate regardless. However, it does rarely come up with male characters that are poorly written and just because a character has Mary Sue traits doesn't mean the character themselves is a Mary Sue.

[Aurrora]

Disney is transparent with the clues they leave. Sith rituals and magic has been something that's popped up quite a few times before the movie came out. Even Kylo's murder of his father was said to be a Sith ritual.

Where'd you get this idea from? Abrams was quite adamant when TFA came out that neither Snoke nor Kylo Ren were Sith.

[Shadowferal]

But Kylo aspired to be Darth Vader...

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o...and Snoke is Palp's clone?

[Zaktar]

Seems pretty clear cut to me... If a female being called a "mary sue" isn't sexist than what is the male equivalent? Why is it never used as an insult toward male characters? It doesn't even fit with Rey, because a Mary Sue has no flaws when it is clear Rey as a protagonist has flaws. I have yet to hear anyone call Super-Man a Mary Sue. Just saying.

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Amazing how you try and spin that as a bad thing, when it's clear the franchise has been extremely successful. From their Animated shows, Disney+, and Films all making money hand over fist.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/30/six-...nvestment.html

What? There is an active debate about whether or not Superman is a Mary Sue, it just isn't taking place in this Star Wars thread. There are male equivalent terms they just aren't as prevalent.

[Shadowferal]

What? There is an active debate about whether or not Superman is a Mary Sue, it just isn't taking place in this Star Wars thread. There are male equivalent terms they just aren't as prevalent.

hmm...The male equivalent is known as a Gary Stu, Marty Stu, or Larry Stu..

ugh..."just call the guy a "superman."

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Because they aren't even close with movie ticket sales, and toys sales & books/comic (merchandising) sales are way down.

can't speak for any thing else as i wouldn't even know where to check but the comic sales have been doing pretty well and are above where starwar's was pre Disney.

for comparison
sales 2011 https://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2011.html

sales 2019 https://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2019.html

I also did a more comprehensive look at the numbers in a different thread though I wasn’t using peak numbers there which would be around a new movie release.

January 1995 Star Wars: Dark Empire II sold 39,200 copy's. Star Wars: Dark Lords of the Sith 29,600 copys sold.

April 1998 Star Wars The Last Command sold 33,848 copy's and Star Wars Shadows of the Empire Evolution 33,452.

so pre prequels number a dormant period.

may 2008 Star Wars Legacy 23 30,346, Star Wars Legacy 24 29,592 copy's sold.

February 2010 Star Wars Legacy 45 20,100, Star Wars Knights Old Republic 15,527 copy's sold.

so another dormant period after the prequels.

july 2018 Star Wars 50 61,832, Star Wars 51 49,136 copy's sold.

august 2018 Star Wars 52 48,439, Star Wars Darth Vader 44,681 copy's sold.

[PACOX]

Where'd you get this idea from? Abrams was quite adamant when TFA came out that neither Snoke nor Kylo Ren were Sith.

They weren't. Kylo has always been described as a Sith fanatic. The movie and visual visual dictionary double down on there being a bunch of Sith cultists but there's still only two proper Sith at any given time and Vader did end the line (at that time). It's little dumb when you have a bunch of people who worship and serve the Sith, but aren't called Sith...becomes a PITA to discuss.

[Skulltaker]

can't speak for any thing else as i wouldn't even know where to check but the comic sales have been doing pretty well and are above where starwar's was pre Disney.

for comparison
sales 2011 https://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2011.html

sales 2019 https://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2019.html

I also did a more comprehensive look at the numbers in a different thread though I wasn’t using peak numbers there which would be around a new movie release.

I'm not going to dispute the success of the new Star Wars comics, but maybe the fact that most of the 2011 books were sold at a mind-boggling 16 USD and up contributed to that. They may have sold 10 times as many copies, but only 1/5 of issues, at 1/4 the price.

Quick headcount, 2019 netted 1.150.000 USD, if these sales figues are accurate and I didn't manage to not see any 2019 releases, while 2011 netted them ~695k. It's still twice, but considering that in 2011 not much was going on in regards of Star Wars, and 2019 has been building up to their grand finale, the numbers for 2019 are still solid, but not half as great as you make them out to be.

Unless, of course, I filtered wrong, and there were more comics in 2019.

[PACOX]

But Kylo aspired to be Darth Vader...

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o...and Snoke is Palp's clone?

Yeah it's stupid stupid or Sidious's genius

Snoke, Palpatine's puppet, talked mad shit about the Sith. Surprise, he was Palpatine the entire time!

Kylo isn't a Sith but the herald of the Sith Eternal...who isn't a bunch people but only one is actually a Sith.

You can say it's some Clone Wars genius/deception from Palpatine or a rushed storyline.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I'm not going to dispute the success of the new Star Wars comics, but maybe the fact that most of the 2011 books were sold at a mind-boggling 16 USD and up contributed to that. They may have sold 10 times as many copies, but only 1/5 of issues, at 1/4 the price.

another thing to keep in mind is that the 2011 books were larger for example blood of the empire was 96 pages and boba fett and the ship of fear was 80. then theres also the other comparison i edited in where the comics are lower prices.

[qwerty123456]

If seems unlikely that it has any thing to do with dark side essences or light side body’s given that we have had a few Possessions in the new canon If I had to guess I’d say the ritual was meant to corrupt her not possess her kinda like the son does to Ashoka but though different means.

Yeah it doesn't make sense otherwise the first sith in existence that got killed by another one would be the one in palpatine. And if that was the case why wouldn't he just keep cloning himself or Snoke and having them kill him to claim a fresher body? Also no sith that knows would ever want to kill another darkside user as they would then get taken over.