Glacier National Park is replacing signs that predicted its glaciers gone by 2020

[Rasulis]

Look what the CO2 emmissions did a while ago - 5mil hectares burned, almost as much as in 2019 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Thursday_bushfires

Not remotely close. As of January 8, the fire had burned an estimated 10.5 million hectares, and as of January 14 it is up to 18.6 million hectares. Your number is way out of date. As I mentioned before, as the fire fronts get larger, the burn rate increases exponentially. The burned acreage almost doubled in just 6 days.

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I have a 39.51’pole. And the Grinch eventually came around.



Does Australia have seasonal fires like the US?

Yep. South and east territories fire season under normal conditions starts in December and ends in April. Although the current fire season started way early in September. Totally not normal conditions. The northern territories fire season starts in April through September. Although there have been several fires already in the northern territories.

[Endus]

Not lying.
Ecologist Kenneth Watt made this statement in April of 1970, around the first Earth Day.
“If present trends continue, the world will be about 4 degrees cooler by 1990. But 11 degrees colder in the year 2000.”
Feel free to look it up for yourselves.
Thank goodness he was incorrect he was his prediction.

One guy. Who was wrong, and the data didn't really support even at the time. Not remotely the consensus among climate scientists, at the time.

Again, this was all accounted for and debunked in the links I gave you, that you're ignoring, to continue pushing this lie.

If you don't want to be seen as a climate change denier, stop making the same grossly misinformed and thoroughly discredited arguments that they do.

[Endus]

I really don't think any of us care how we are perceived by the other side.

There is no "other side". The facts don't have "sides".

[Endus]

There are no facts. There is only perception.

Sorry, no, if your perception does not line up with reality, then that's what we call "delusion" or "hallucination".

Facts are facts. If your "perception" disagrees with them, your perception is wrong.

[Deja Thoris]

There are no facts. There is only perception.

This is the debate of our times. People have somehow come to see facts as nebulous concepts that they can choose to accept or dismiss as they deem convenient.

But one day when your close to sea level home is underwater it'll be hard to perceive it as a dry safe place to live.

[Shadowferal]

There are no facts. There is only perception.

If you were thrown in Australia's fire catastrophe right now, would you burn, or would you think you were burning?

[breadisfunny]

There are no facts. There is only perception.

that's right that water flooding your house doesn't exist if you don't choose to believe in it.

[s_bushido]

lol

You know you've made a quality post when the next 5 replies are quoting you to year you apart. Or maybe that's just my perception.

[Flarelaine]

Debating the nature of reality certainly has a place in General Offtopic, but is perhaps best carried out in threads dedicated to existential philosophy.

[stevenho]

Not remotely close. As of January 8, the fire had burned an estimated 10.5 million hectares, and as of January 14 it is up to 18.6 million hectares. Your number is way out of date. As I mentioned before, as the fire fronts get larger, the burn rate increases exponentially. The burned acreage almost doubled in just 6 days.

Damn, that's depressing. Look what a climate change of 0,9 degrees celsius can do
I dread to even think what would happen if such a change was to happen in the USA.

[ADA203]

One guy. Who was wrong, and the data didn't really support even at the time. Not remotely the consensus among climate scientists, at the time.

Again, this was all accounted for and debunked in the links I gave you, that you're ignoring, to continue pushing this lie.

If you don't want to be seen as a climate change denier, stop making the same grossly misinformed and thoroughly discredited arguments that they do.

In other words, I didn’t lie (which was your claim) when I stated what I stated was correct when Kenneth Watt made that statement. That much has been proven.
I really don’t care what I’m “seen” as. It has already been proven in this thread multiple times that people will discredit you despite what you state simply for not agreeing with them.

I have given both climate predictions that did not come true and predictions that did come true. That is sort of what this thread is about after all. I have also invited invited others to do so. I don’t believe anyone else in this thread has done all of this besides myself. If I am perceived by the readers as denier than so be it. That’s on them, not me.

Not remotely close. As of January 8, the fire had burned an estimated 10.5 million hectares, and as of January 14 it is up to 18.6 million hectares. Your number is way out of date. As I mentioned before, as the fire fronts get larger, the burn rate increases exponentially. The burned acreage almost doubled in just 6 days.

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Yep. South and east territories fire season under normal conditions starts in December and ends in April. Although the current fire season started way early in September. Totally not normal conditions. The northern territories fire season starts in April through September. Although there have been several fires already in the northern territories.

Hmm...
I figured that Australia’s peak season would have been during our Winter ( Summer in the Southern Hemisphere ) similar time how the western US’s is during our Summer months. Apparently, all year is “fire season” in the US. The page I looked up also stated that “As many as 90 percent of forest fires are caused by people, according to the Department of Interior.”
Camp fires, cigarettes, power lines and just down right arson I suppose.

[Rasulis]

In other words, I didn’t lie (which was your claim) when I stated what I stated was correct when Kenneth Watt made that statement. That much has been proven.
I really don’t care what I’m “seen” as. It has already been proven in this thread multiple times that people will discredit you despite what you state simply for not agreeing with them.

I have given both climate predictions that did not come true and predictions that did come true. That is sort of what this thread is about after all. I have also invited invited others to do so. I don’t believe anyone else in this thread has done all of this besides myself. If I am perceived by the readers as denier than so be it. That’s on them, not me.




Hmm...
I figured that Australia’s peak season would have been during our Winter ( Summer in the Southern Hemisphere ) similar time how the western US’s is during our Summer months. Apparently, all year is “fire season” in the US. The page I looked up also stated that “As many as 90 percent of forest fires are caused by people, according to the Department of Interior.”
Camp fires, cigarettes, power lines and just down right arson I suppose.

Big country. Different states have different fire seasons. West and east Texas have different fire seasons. Also the seasons can change by decades. For example 1980 - 1999 was wet period for California and the fire season was limited to June - October. From 1999 - 2017 California had a series of droughts culminating in 5 consecutive years of drought ending in 2017 and the state pretty much had year round fire season during this period. The last 3 years the State is back on wet cycle. Last year was the mildest and shortest fire season going all the way back to 1980 with 259,823 acres (105,147 hectares) burned. I don’t think California ever had a fire season with under 1 million acres burned in a long time.

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Damn, that's depressing. Look what a climate change of 0,9 degrees celsius can do
I dread to even think what would happen if such a change was to happen in the USA.

When scientists talked about temperature in Australia going up 1F, they were talking about median or average temperature. However, when it comes to wildfires, we are looking at extreme event temperature.

Both the Black Thursday and the current wildfires occurred during record-breaking hot summers. However, the highest temperature recorded during the Black Thursday event was only 113F. While the highest temperature recorded during the current event was considerably higher at 121F in mid to late December.

[stevenho]

When scientists talked about temperature in Australia going up 1F, they were talking about median or average temperature. However, when it comes to wildfires, we are looking at extreme event temperature.

Both the Black Thursday and the current wildfires occurred during record-breaking hot summers. However, the highest temperature recorded during the Black Thursday event was only 113F. While the highest temperature recorded during the current event was considerably higher at 121F in mid to late December.

So what about the global warming of 50 years ago and the fires being 500% larger than 2019 ones?

The 1974-75 bushfire season burnt over 100 million hectares (250,000,000 acres), but there are different figures reported:
In 1995, the Australian Bureau of Statistics reported 117 million hectares (290,000,000 acres)[66]
The 2004 National Inquiry on Bushfire Mitigation and Management reports a total of 102 Mha[67]

[s_bushido]

So what about the global warming of 50 years ago and the fires being 500% larger than 2019 ones?

What about it.

Those numbers are impressive and everything, until you realize that it only caused something like $5 million ($36 million today) in damages and killed 3 people. These fires have killed 29 and look to exceed $4 billion in damages. Size has little to do with severity and impact.

I don't know how many times you people have to be told that the planet won't give a shit what we do to it, it's the effect the damage we're causing will have on the life that lives here (including us, obviously) that's important. Earth will keep spinning regardless of how many dumbass humans are living here.

[melodramocracy]

Humans are transforming the planet based on our needs

No, humans are transforming the planet based on stupidity, and our insistence on placing imaginary monetary systems ahead of our our actual habitats. We deserve everything that's headed our way.

[Mormolyce]

They never did.

Don't make him move the goalposts again!

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When scientists talked about temperature in Australia going up 1F, they were talking about median or average temperature. However, when it comes to wildfires, we are looking at extreme event temperature.

Both the Black Thursday and the current wildfires occurred during record-breaking hot summers. However, the highest temperature recorded during the Black Thursday event was only 113F. While the highest temperature recorded during the current event was considerably higher at 121F in mid to late December.

We have fires every year. The difference is the scale.

So if the intensity of the fires is increasing we can expect this to be a yearly occurrence. It may be mitigated by government action (if NoShow ScoMo can be bothered) but we are dealing with a tinderbox due to escalating conditions in the bush.

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Maybe the glacier will go away in the future, in which case people would have to adapt to those changes. Humans are transforming the planet based on our needs and inevitably that means the climate will be effected as a result. *shrug*

Our needs are what we decide they are. We are responsible for our actions, you giving yourself a pass for your indolence really counts for nothing.

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Debating the nature of reality certainly has a place in General Offtopic, but is perhaps best carried out in threads dedicated to existential philosophy.

LOL is that where we're at with the climate change debate? The evidence is now so overwhelming their only counterargument is "yeah well what IS reality anyway?"...

[stevenho]

What about it.

Those numbers are impressive and everything, until you realize that it only caused something like $5 million ($36 million today) in damages and killed 3 people. These fires have killed 29 and look to exceed $4 billion in damages. Size has little to do with severity and impact.

I don't know how many times you people have to be told that the planet won't give a shit what we do to it, it's the effect the damage we're causing will have on the life that lives here (including us, obviously) that's important. Earth will keep spinning regardless of how many dumbass humans are living here.

I see.
So the effect of global warming is not really measured by the scale of the fires, but by what burned and how much it was worth.
Got it.

[Noradin]

I see.
So the effect of global warming is not really measured by the scale of the fires, but by what burned and how much it was worth.
Got it.

No, you didn't.

There is a difference between something burning out in the wilderness with nobody there to care about it and something burning despite desperate, resourceful attempts to quell the fires.

[s_bushido]

I see.
So the effect of global warming is not really measured by the scale of the fires, but by what burned and how much it was worth.
Got it.

Had people been actively fighting those fires for months out in the middle of uninhabited grasslands, do you think they would have been contained faster and with less total damage? Or do you have no idea because the climate change denial sites you're parroting that information from didn't bother to tell you that the majority of that damage wasn't even noticed until they took satellite images at some later date?

As for scale, which do you think would have more impact if I set it off in your bedroom: 50 decorative candles, or a single road flare?

[Rasulis]

So what about the global warming of 50 years ago and the fires being 500% larger than 2019 ones?

Context is just as important as the numbers.

The 1975-1975 wildfires primarily occurred in the remote outback area (central) Australia. The region had two years of heavy rainfall which generated a lot of fuel (lush vegetation) in a region which is basically one big desert. By all account, the Australian government left the fires to burn themselves out. Unlike the current fires, the government did not devote 100,000 plus fire fighters and almost 200 fire fighting aircrafts to combat the fires. The extent of the 1974–75 bushfire season was actually not known until after the event when satellite images were analyzed, due to the fires being mostly located in very remote areas of the continent.

As for the 1995 and 2004 burn acreage numbers, where did you get those? Wiki? You may want to double check their sources.