Christopher Tolkien has passed

[Ihavewaffles]

He is responsible for the growth and spread of his father's legacy as well as the maintenance of it's integrity. Calling him a "glorified editor" is to spit on his and his father's accomplishments by vastly over-simplying his contributions to his father's work.

the rest of your words carry no weight in reality and are hollow, unworthy of any further acknowledgment.

Beren and Luthien book was first published in 2017, JRR Tolkien died in 1973..tell me how it takes that fucking long to publish that book? Half a century? Really?..At least during the 90's he could just have digitized all notes n everything n published it then, n added the finality he himself, christopher, thinks appropriate, not necessarily what jrr tolkien would have ended up doing had he continued his work himself..

Digitization
Description Digitization, less commonly digitalization, is the process of converting information into a digital format, in which the information is organized into bits.

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I think Peters Movies are greatly overhyped and I hate how they treated the ENTS....

Lol so u wanted hours long ent conversations or something?...

[tmamass]

Lol so u wanted hours long ent conversations or something?...

I surely didnt want ENTS deciding in 5 mins, yes.

[Ihavewaffles]

I surely didnt want ENTS deciding in 5 mins, yes.

Each movie is like 3 hours, just thought you should know...if we added everything every nerd wanted, we'd get 10 hour long movies..

Be reasonable...

[Azrathan]

He is responsible for the growth and spread of his father's legacy as well as the maintenance of it's integrity. Calling him a "glorified editor" is to spit on his and his father's accomplishments by vastly over-simplying his contributions to his father's work.

the rest of your words carry no weight in reality and are hollow, unworthy of any further acknowledgment.

So so true!!!

[therealstegblob]

This is such a useless mentality.

Bad movie/show adaptations get made of all types, and their existence does nothing to "rape" whatever value you find in the original. Thinking one particular man's work is somehow sacred and untouchable is nonsense.

Is Tolkien's work "untouchable"? Certainly not. Is it constantly adapted into underwhelming or even downright insulting products? Yes.

I'm all for rolling my eyes at the wannabe Tolkien-elitists who get angry at the Peter Jackson LotR trilogy because dialogue isn't 1:1 pulled from the novels, but let's get real. Tolkien's work is really significant for the entirety of the modern high fantasy genre and fans have come to expect a certain level of quality and respect to the source canon. It's one of the more "pure" franchises out there, in that its kept a lot of its integrity through the ages.

Christopher was as good for the franchise as he was bad for it. In a lot of ways he was the ultimate petty Tolkien fanboy (which only makes sense because he was the dude's son who inspired the whole thing and the tales were originally crafted specifically for him), which meant he was very wary of lending the license out. This meant we had a huge filter on LotR products. We got less, but generally we got better stuff. There's still been some shitty things in recent years, like the mediocre Shadow of Mordor games, the weird internal disaster that was The Hobbit trilogy (which while I personally still enjoy, it's obvious it went through a lot of internal meddling by the studios involved in producing it); all this among others.

To believe Christopher Tolkien was the single force of the Tolkien estate holding the flood gates back is stupid, but he was also the most staunch protector of the license. There's a reason that every official film adaptation of Lord of the Rings has been, at least on some level, deeply respective towards the original material where as many other film adaptations are very, very heavy on the whole "BASED ON" part of "BASED ON A NOVEL". Even the worst games or whatever adaptations of Middle Earth have tended to at least put in some effort to revere the original material, but it's gotten markedly worse lately. Shadow of Mordor, for instance, decided it was going to be really epic and add in lots of cool new lorez and epic, original characters that are all on par with shitty fucking fanfics. And now they're just part of the god damned canon forever, like this is Star Wars or some shit. Older Middle Earth games would've never dared do something like this (or at least quite so poorly), but here's where we are.

Lord of the Rings was significant in many ways. That people are defensive of its future at the hands of studios who'll produce shitty adaptations of it is not only expected, but entirely warranted.

[Yadryonych]

Fucking great, he was the wall stopping Tolkien's work from being raped.
Amazon is treating it right, just because Christopher had control over it.

It's all a downwards spiral from here

I'm highly expecting a major "progressive" sjw adjustment from now on, that includes possible female Gimli, colored Legolas and Frodo and Sam being a couple in relationship

Infracted.

[therealstegblob]

He was pretty adamantly against movie or TV adaptations without him okaying every single scene, especially after the Hobbit cluster fuck, so I'm guessing he made sure that no one could touch his father's work except trustees.

If I recall correctly, he loved Fellowship of the Ring when it came out but started to criticize (heavily) Two Towers and Return of the King, because he felt they focused far too much on the wars/battles, and that they glorified the very thing the books were trying to warn people about. Though he eventually lightened up and said he came to like the trilogy. I dunno what the fuck he thought about The Hobbit films, lol.

[Bae]

You do realize one medium is books, and the other film and that film doesn't have enough screen-time to add all the mention of trees, hobbits etc. in the book?...

It's almost like u guys wish Peter Jackson's Lotr didn't happen, or do you?? In that case, who cares, the movies were gud, cry in a corner why don't you.

Im a fan of the films. Im not sure what your point is really as i dont think you understand what my problem is. My problem was with what the guy i quoted said. As he seems to indicate because other franchises are badly done then its fine for lord of the rings to be.

Any adaptation should be as close to the original source material, and usually when something is badly done its because of it straying from such material. Sometimes its bad casting but you usually find things that are added are usually what makes something bad. Game of Thrones is a perfect example of this. First four seasons were mind blowing, then starts to drift from the source material and it starts a slow decline. There were rumours that after season 3 Martins role became less and less prominent on the show which happens often with adaptations because the company and producers want more say and authors find issue with their stories being changed.

The thought of bad movies/show adaptations happen all the time and their existence does nothing to "rape" the value is usually wrong in the public view. I could list off countless times people remember something for being great then something new happens whether it be a remake, a retelling or a continuation which changes the public view of such things.

For example, i havent even read all of the LOTR books. I got midway through the two towers. But i can understand why people get very defensive. You go to a film and see a crap version of something and the public assume thats the story told in the book and/or that because the film was terrible the book will be aswell. The Golden Compass is a prime example of this and more recently The Dark Tower. Along with many Stephen King books to film adaptations. (Carrie being another good example, ang Pet Semetary) I could list off so many that have been adapted so badly people dont want to even try the books because they know the basic plot and didnt like it from a film perspective.

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Is Tolkien's work "untouchable"? Certainly not. Is it constantly adapted into underwhelming or even downright insulting products? Yes.

I'm all for rolling my eyes at the wannabe Tolkien-elitists who get angry at the Peter Jackson LotR trilogy because dialogue isn't 1:1 pulled from the novels, but let's get real. Tolkien's work is really significant for the entirety of the modern high fantasy genre and fans have come to expect a certain level of quality and respect to the source canon. It's one of the more "pure" franchises out there, in that its kept a lot of its integrity through the ages.

Christopher was as good for the franchise as he was bad for it. In a lot of ways he was the ultimate petty Tolkien fanboy (which only makes sense because he was the dude's son who inspired the whole thing and the tales were originally crafted specifically for him), which meant he was very wary of lending the license out. This meant we had a huge filter on LotR products. We got less, but generally we got better stuff. There's still been some shitty things in recent years, like the mediocre Shadow of Mordor games, the weird internal disaster that was The Hobbit trilogy (which while I personally still enjoy, it's obvious it went through a lot of internal meddling by the studios involved in producing it); all this among others.

To believe Christopher Tolkien was the single force of the Tolkien estate holding the flood gates back is stupid, but he was also the most staunch protector of the license. There's a reason that every official film adaptation of Lord of the Rings has been, at least on some level, deeply respective towards the original material where as many other film adaptations are very, very heavy on the whole "BASED ON" part of "BASED ON A NOVEL". Even the worst games or whatever adaptations of Middle Earth have tended to at least put in some effort to revere the original material, but it's gotten markedly worse lately. Shadow of Mordor, for instance, decided it was going to be really epic and add in lots of cool new lorez and epic, original characters that are all on par with shitty fucking fanfics. And now they're just part of the god damned canon forever, like this is Star Wars or some shit. Older Middle Earth games would've never dared do something like this (or at least quite so poorly), but here's where we are.

Lord of the Rings was significant in many ways. That people are defensive of its future at the hands of studios who'll produce shitty adaptations of it is not only expected, but entirely warranted.

Thank you

I wish i could have explained it like you, i cant however but pretty much (almost) everything you said is how i think/feel. Its mostly 100% what you said. Especially the last sentence.

[Kyphael]

I have a feeling Warner Brothers just got incredibly happy about this, as they will no longer has as much pushback against them creating things within middle Earth since his Son cares more about the Money than the lore/world it created

To be fair, he probably never care about money because he never had to worry about it. He went to private schools growing up and had a relatively upper middle class upbringing, and then inherited his father's growing fortune, reaping its riches more than his father himself. It's likely, he wasn't a greedy man, I'm not calling him spoiled, but as an American I can relate more to Eddie Murphy. "When you grow up poor, you're not picky with your roles and you don't say no to 15 million dollars [to play a vampire.]"

[s_bushido]

And the award for most meaningless post of the year (so far) goes to:

*drumroll*

I'm not surprised that one of the biggest SJW's on this site would say this.

Moving on.

So we shouldnt try to maintain the integrity and legacy of one of the finest pieces of work because it happens to every other money grabbing franchise?

Never heard so much horse shit. If you think things aren't tainted by poor sequels or adaptations in the greater publics mind then you're just wrong.

The only useless mentality in this thread so far is what you just wrote.

"Integrity" of what, exactly? The books aren't going anywhere.

It came up recently, but even though Shyamalamadingdong's Avatar movie was atrocious, it was the reason I even bothered watching the show in the first place (just to see what all the fuss is about). And it turned out to be one of the best TV shows I've ever seen. I can't imagine that I'm the only one to have a similar experience, and not just with that franchise in particular.

You may not like it, but mediocre/bad movies can easily be a gateway into someone developing an interest in the source material. So what's the point of just locking this stuff away to fade into obscurity?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

While it always sucks when some one passes I do hope that LOTR will expand more now. There is a ton of material in the universe that would be cool rather it be in movie to or game form and I’d say it’s a shame it’s been held back to such an extent.

[Bae]

"Integrity" of what, exactly? The books aren't going anywhere.

It came up recently, but even though Shyamalamadingdong's Avatar movie was atrocious, it was the reason I even bothered watching the show in the first place (just to see what all the fuss is about). And it turned out to be one of the best TV shows I've ever seen. I can't imagine that I'm the only one to have a similar experience, and not just with that franchise in particular.

You may not like it, but mediocre/bad movies can easily be a gateway into someone developing an interest in the source material. So what's the point of just locking this stuff away to fade into obscurity?

As i said in my post if you had even bothered to read it all and not just the parts you chose to. More often than not people see a film of a book adaptation, see its crap and judge the book by the film. Its stupid they do it, but thats what happens. Therefore the integrity and legacy of the book is marred by some pubic perception.

I was recently on another forum which is mostly about the TV series of GOT and many there have outright stated they wont bother with the future books or even starting reading the original novels because of how the TV show turned out.

Now to you it may seem stupid, to me it seems stupid, but it still happens and a percentage of people will think of or remember Martins books because of a pisspoor ending to a TV show.

Bad movies can be a gateway to more fans, but in most cases it will likely cause a majority to judge the book by its awful adaptation. Whether its right or wrong.

[Ihavewaffles]

Imho couldn't care less what such people think, if they wanna be simpletons, there's nothing we can do about it.

[Uthan]

Each movie is like 3 hours, just thought you should know...if we added everything every nerd wanted, we'd get 10 hour long movies..

Be reasonable...

Not that I think the guy you were responding to had the same point, but Jackson actually constantly added unnecessary scenes and plot twists that weren't in the books just for cheap added suspense, bloating the movies more than a more accurate portrayal would have been. For instance, the Ents decided right away to join the war and help at their meeting, so the movie would actually have been shorter if they hadn't had the silly scene with Treebeard apparently having missed how Saruman had been cutting down his forest and him then changing his mind as a knee-jerk response. Or Faramir dragging Frodo and Sam to Osgiliath at the end of the Two Towers, completely unnecessary scenes that added nothing and changed Faramir's character somewhat. Or the Elves joining in at Helms Deep, etc etc. Lots of small additions everywhere that didn't add much but subtly changed characters or underlying themes.

One definitely has to cut corners when adapting a book to a movie and yeah, he did a really good job on a lot of aspects, but storywise I have a hard time with a lot of the changes and additions he made to the plot or characters just cause he thought it'd be cooler that way (then again a lot of people crave constant action and obstacles at every turn in their movies no matter if it makes sense, so eh).

Sad to see Christopher go anyhow, as expected as it was, hopefully there are enough knowledgable voices left to keep Amazon in check from anything too silly (have some hopes for that series), and would love to see shows or movies on the Lay of Leithian and the Children of Húrin at some point in the future from someone with slightly more respect for the material than Jackson and co.

[Rennadrel]

Fucking great, he was the wall stopping Tolkien's work from being raped.
Amazon is treating it right, just because Christopher had control over it.

It's all a downwards spiral from here

Well especially with Amazon trying to force woke politics into his father's work, he wouldn't let them touch the Third Age material (The Hobbit and LoTR).

[Jotaux]

Fucking great, he was the wall stopping Tolkien's work from being raped.
Amazon is treating it right, just because Christopher had control over it.

It's all a downwards spiral from here

He raped his fathers work already with the silmarillion. Basically grabbed all his dad's notes and tried to sell a book.

[breadisfunny]

Imho couldn't care less what such people think, if they wanna be simpletons, there's nothing we can do about it.

if you really didn't care what people think you wouldnt be here posting about it.