Screw corrupted gear

[Baine]

I dislike the new system. Too gimmicky for my taste. Fortunately, you can purify the gear. Which I do.

[rhorle]

Not intending a behavior is never saying "it wasn't suppose to have sockets at all". The "whoopsie" was in regards to the way it was handled. If it was a legit bug that they weren't meant to have sockets, they would have patched it out the moment servers went live and they realized. No matter how much you want to say "well it's hard to take back!", they take back situations all the time when their reasoning it "It's a bug". Yet they didn't do it here, because it was obviously intended but the way the players used it was not.

They literally say they didn't intended for sockets to be on Benthic gear. And that it was hard to roll back to remove sockets from the gear. Of course they take back situations all the time. But that doesn't mean it is always easy to close the flood gates. The funny part is by admitting that they could have rolled it back you are admitting that they saw it as a mistake. All while arguing that they never said it was a mistake.

And no. Just because they didn't roll it back doesn't mean it wasn't a bug. There are mistakes and bugs all the time that they do not roll back. I hope you don't moderator with this big of a closed mind.

[Jester Joe]

They probably would have taken the sockets back, but after the shit show that was the tmog item from the first uldir boss.... Yes they would rather people be annoyed at farming benthic (and really.... How many people actually did, probably less than 1%)

It is? This very thread has a case of someone claiming to know a corrupted 415 is an upgrade over a 445 item level with out running a sim. Funny isn't it? That general knowledge of your class or power of corrupted effects can tell you if something is generally an upgrade or not.

And you didn't simply point out they had the same issue with Benthic gear. You claimed they said Benthic was a mistake. Your proof of that claim is them saying sockets on Benthic were a mistake. You even tried to argue that they don't even say that.

The post of your devs you provided earlier literally has them saying "item level should be a general guide". What part of general guide don't you understand? If something is a general guide you don't have to sim it in order to find out if it is an upgrade or not. You shouldn't have to doesn't mean you will never have to if you care about min/max every little detail of gear upgrades.

You are right. It is just silly at this point. How you keep twisting the words of Blizzard while refusing to admit you keep twisting them.

Also for both of you, 5 seconds of googling shows the ability to get sockets on gear was on the PTR even.

https://www.wowhead.com/guides/benth...nts:id=3126405

https://imgur.com/a/tDTVpi4

And for rhorle, specifically. You need to stop criticizing others of "twisting words" as you twist my words.
I did not say "they didn't say sockets on benthic was a mistake". I said "they didn't say it was UNINTENDED". HUGE difference between the two, and part of why I said benthic in general is because even WITH sockets, a 425 boots with sockets wouldn't be better than mythic gear. It was the passive from equipping the gear that further amplified the issue with benthic gear (hence why Ion mentions tertiary stats, something you seem to keep ignoring...).

Lastly, you're not making any points by trying to quote someone else against me. And it's flat out wrong to try to say that anyway, because you're just proving there's an issue with what Blizzard is trying to accomplish. They don't want you to have to sim for 20 ilvl difference to find out it's a downgrade. And yet that's exactly what is happening again.
You keep trying to take quotes out of context to prove your point and it's not going anywhere. It's not a point to go "Well, general guide!!!" and ignore that they also flat out said "20 ilvl upgrades being a dps loss is a mistake".

[Onikaroshi]

Also for both of you, 5 seconds of googling shows the ability to get sockets on gear was on the PTR even.

https://www.wowhead.com/guides/benth...nts:id=3126405

And how many bugs that get reported on the ptr don't get fixed? A lot. I honestly don't even know what the ptr is for at this point, they never really fix anything brought up on it

[Jester Joe]

They literally say they didn't intended for sockets to be on Benthic gear. And that it was hard to roll back to remove sockets from the gear. Of course they take back situations all the time. But that doesn't mean it is always easy to close the flood gates. The funny part is by admitting that they could have rolled it back you are admitting that they saw it as a mistake. All while arguing that they never said it was a mistake.

And no. Just because they didn't roll it back doesn't mean it wasn't a bug. There are mistakes and bugs all the time that they do not roll back. I hope you don't moderator with this big of a closed mind.

Again, the ability to get the sockets was on the PTR.
One that was known.

I will never understand why people feel the need to go "MOD THOUGH".

- - - Updated - - -

And how many bugs that get reported on the ptr don't get fixed? A lot. I honestly don't even know what the ptr is for at this point, they never really fix anything brought up on it

That's not exactly a defense.

A lot of bugs only appear once the game hits live servers, and getting sockets on pieces of gear is not something that would fall into that category, nor is it really something that's hard to track down.

[Onikaroshi]

Again, the ability to get the sockets was on the PTR.
One that was known.

I will never understand why people feel the need to go "MOD THOUGH".

- - - Updated - - -



That's not exactly a defense.

A lot of bugs only appear once the game hits live servers, and getting sockets on pieces of gear is not something that would fall into that category, nor is it really something that's hard to track down.

8.3 had tons of far more game breaking bugs that made it live that were reported on ptr, hell, I reported some things that still made it live. Quests not working, bonus objectives breaking (that still break), losing vision currency if you dc, etc.

Most people probably didn't consider the sockets a bug. Hell... We just had a bug fixed where a socketed item could roll a SECOND socket

[Voidism]

I actually like corrupted gear.

[Jester Joe]

8.3 had tons of far more game breaking bugs that made it live that were reported on ptr, hell, I reported some things that still made it live. Quests not working, bonus objectives breaking (that still break), losing vision currency if you dc, etc.

Most people probably didn't consider the sockets a bug. Hell... We just had a bug fixed where a socketed item could roll a SECOND socket

One of those isn't a bug (losing vision if you d/c).

And that's a situation of a crafted gear that has a guaranteed socket being bugged, yes. But they still fixed it because it was a bug.

Which kinda proves what I said, that if it was a genuine bug they would have fixed it. So I stand by what I said, it was on the PTR, it hit live as is.

And only once they saw people just casino gambling for sockets specifically, THEN they said "this was a mistake". The socket was fully intended up to that point though.

Hell, I'm pretty sure all the class discords were even theorycrafting with the sockets at that point, so there was no way Blizzard didn't know.

[rhorle]

I did not say "they didn't say sockets on benthic was a mistake". I said "they didn't say it was UNINTENDED".

Except they literally did in the very interview you provided. Let that sink in. You provided the interview that disproves what you are saying and accuse others of twisting your words. It is also funny how you say quoting developers can not be used to make a point yet you have been doing just that. Them saying they want item level to be a general guide doesn't stop them from making mistakes.

I haven't taken any quotes out of context. Blizzard wants item level to be a general guide for upgrades. They do not want people to feel the need to alt-tab out of the game to sim something before they equip it or "roll" on it. Them saying that doesn't mean they always get it right. They are trying and they have made some improvements just as they have taken some steps back.

Again 20 item level difference not being an upgrade is a mistake. But special effects will always make those situations arise because of their power being independent from item level. The only way to fix it is to give them a fixed value or just not have them. Fixed values are lackluster for the same reason why our class abilities are not fixed. They don't scale and often just become an after thought.

That is why corruption, and other special effects, can be some game changing. They offer scaling.

[Lurker1]

Meh... better than titanforging.

Better for sure with just infinite stars alone it blow titanforge out of the water in raw power feels good man!

[rhorle]

Which kinda proves what I said, that if it was a genuine bug they would have fixed it. So I stand by what I said, it was on the PTR, it hit live as is.

No it doesn't prove anything. The absence of them doing something doesn't prove it was always an intended thing. They just didn't want to do complete server roll backs because of sockets. Over 15 years there are plenty of bugs they let stay with out doing roll backs. That doesn't mean that those bugs were always intended.

[Jester Joe]

Except they literally did in the very interview you provided. Let that sink in. You provided the interview that disproves what you are saying and accuse others of twisting your words. It is also funny how you say quoting developers can not be used to make a point yet you have been doing just that. Them saying they want item level to be a general guide doesn't stop them from making mistakes.

Again, no.

They said "it was a mistake" and specifically said "we saw players casino gambling it".
And again, I point to the fact that it was on the PTR and still went live like that.

Unless you have a direct quote of them saying "The socket wasn't mean to proc", I am going to say again, their "this was a mistake" was in regards to how POWERFUL it ended up being, and how people were just gambling for specific ones.

NOT that the socket wasn't even meant to be there, because as seen, if a socket shows up where it shouldn't, they patch it out. As shown by Oni already.

So stop accusing others of twisting words unless you can actually PROVE that it wasn't meant to be there. Because everything you are claiming flies in the face of what Ion has said on multiple interviews.

[Onikaroshi]

One of those isn't a bug (losing vision if you d/c).

It's a situation that seems at least unintended, losing a Vision to something out of your control is just ridiculous.

[rhorle]

Again, the ability to get the sockets was on the PTR. One that was known.

Maybe they thought they removed it? But found out they didn't. You know a mistake? What do we call mistakes? Bugs.

- - - Updated - - -

Again, no. They said "it was a mistake" and specifically said "we saw players casino gambling it".

No they didn't say it was a mistake but I'm going to say they said it was a mistake. Dude. Seriously take a step back. You literally just said I was wrong by stating I was right.

[Jester Joe]

Maybe they thought they removed it? But found out they didn't. You know a mistake? What do we call mistakes? Bugs.

- - - Updated - - -



No they didn't say it was a mistake but I'm going to say they said it was a mistake. Dude. Seriously take a step back. You literally just said I was wrong by stating I was right.

And you know what they do with bugs?

Fix them.

They don't go "once we saw people gambling..."

And they certainly do not describe a bug as a situation of "the lesson was learned".

Again you're ignoring the entire context though. The tidbit of "they referred to gambling as the mistake. They referred to how strong it ended up being a mistake".

The "no" is to you claiming the mistake was that sockets even appeared in the first place.

And in the end, this truly changes nothing. You're aiming for a pyhrric victory that doesn't change the overall point that blizzard has said on record that is was a flaw that Legion had gear that was a downgrade despite being 20 ilvls of a difference.

And yet that's happening again

[rhorle]

Again you're ignoring the entire context though. The tidbit of "they referred to gambling as the mistake. They referred to how strong it ended up being a mistake".

From the WoWhead summar from the link you provided

Was Sockets on Benthic Gear a Whoopsie?
Ion: Yes. Once it was out there and people started earning them, it was too late to take it back.

Doesn't reference gambling. The exact phrase was "Yes. Honestly yes". That is the first thing said when being asked if it was a mistake (whoopsie). I am not taking anything out of context. The next thing stated was The presence of sockets, which they admitted was a mistake, is what led to them being seen as a gambling. The exact game stated was roulette. There were a lot of issues but they literally stated sockets were a mistake. You stated they were a mistake. Every knows they said it was a mistake.

But you are still arguing that it wasn't a mistake. And using fancy words like phyrric doesn't change anything. There was no great cost for me to "win". I used the sources you provided. The words you referenced. And I've stuck to it. You've changed your argument several times. You've been misattributing Blizzard's words several times. You said they want item level to trump all when they stated it should be a general guide and not require simming. You said they stated Benthic was a mistake when they were commenting on sockets. The question asked them was directly referencing sockets but some how you claim the context was the gear as a whole while accusing someone of taking things out of context.

Of course it is happening again. Because the easy fix is no more scaling or percents. Something no one really wants. Gear is only meaningful because of the percentages each stat point offers. But that leads to issues like this where percents, and abilities, can cause non proportional gains.

Blizzard keeps trying for one thing while experimenting on different ways to meet that goal with out removing all fun and intrigue. It doesn't always work the way they want. That doesn't invalidate their goal or stated purpose. It just means there is more work to do to find the perfect system. And they will try to create something that follows a higher item level being a general guide with out require sims for all upgrades.

[Jester Joe]

From the WoWhead summar from the link you provided

Was Sockets on Benthic Gear a Whoopsie?
Ion: Yes. Once it was out there and people started earning them, it was too late to take it back.

So you admit you didn't watch the entire thing, okay then.

The intent was always "okay, these slots, there's something you can work towards". Not so much the roulette of "alright, keep rolling those benthic pieces until it ends up socketed". But once it was out there, it was too late to take it back. Just learn and carry on

Context. Again. Context.

You need to back down yourself. You're trying so hard to prove a point that isn't there.

I repeat again, the ability to roll sockets was on the PTR. Blizzard knew, it went live, and then they said they didn't intend for people to just keep rerolling ONLY for sockets on certain pieces. Not that the socket itself was unintended, they just underestimated HOW STRONG it was.

And FYI, a roulette is a form of gambling.

[Relapses]

I defended the idea behind Corrupted gear when I heard about it but now that it's launched I have reassessed my opinion.

I'll start by saying this: Corrupted gear would be fine if it was balanced properly. But it's not. And it's not even close to being balanced. I thought this might be an interesting way to keep gear, well, interesting but it really is a fucking disaster with Blizzard launching it the way they did. There are Corrupted traits that are so shitty that it almost feels like punishment when you get it. And yeah, that would be fine if there also weren't Corrupted pieces that are so powerful that they bridge more than 100 ilvls worth of player power. I can't believe I have to even make such an observation. I really hope that the complete lack of balance for this system is a result of the dev team being forced to work on SL mid cycle because if not I am severely concerned with the outlook for future expansions.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

I'm giving it two weeks and if it remains the same, I'm quitting.

I've done 40 mythic+ and seen no corrupted gear but raid loggers have gotten bis corruptions. This patch is honestly the danger scenario for me.

[rhorle]

So you admit you didn't watch the entire thing, okay then.

Where did I say that? Lol.

You need to back down yourself. You're trying so hard to prove a point that isn't there.

It is clearly there that they called sockets on Benthic gear a mistake. I am not trying hard to prove anything because it is clearly stated. You are the one assigning difficulty and calling things phyrric. You are struggling with excuse, insult, and reason after reason for why you are correct.

And FYI, a roulette is a form of gambling.

Are you going to tell me that water is wet next? Why do you keep trying to inform things that people have never claimed? I never said it wasn't gambling. I never said that Blizzard didn't like how sockets caused people to "gamble" for the socket. Blizzard stated that sockets were a mistake. You have been arguing against with a wish wash of rebuttals.

Context. Again context. You keep bringing up a thing that you refuse to understand. You ignore the opening words from Ion in favor of later words. You keep trying to pretend that those first words do not exist in order to paint the narrative that you want.