Serious discussion: Is this the end of Blizzard's "We'll release it when its ready?"

[Casperite]

it's all a lie of course, blizzard is not what it used to be ... and everything, because greed breaks the bag, they deserve it, they will lose a lot of money in the coming years

although his unconditional fans who buy everything may save them who knows ... what a shame ... and how sad ..

Or maybe people don't all blindly hate a company like you and actually enjoy the current game. Weird how people have different opinions, I know.

OT, I think overall their patches and expansions release worh fewer issues than they used to. So not sure what the point of this thread is except for misguided bias.

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it's all a lie of course, blizzard is not what it used to be ... and everything, because greed breaks the bag, they deserve it, they will lose a lot of money in the coming years

although his unconditional fans who buy everything may save them who knows ... what a shame ... and how sad ..

Or maybe people don't all blindly hate a company like you and actually enjoy the current game. Weird how people have different opinions, I know.

OT, I think overall their patches and expansions release worh fewer issues than they used to. So not sure what the point of this thread is except for misguided bias.

[LionSinMaikeru]

While this thread risks falling into a girpefest, I feel after seeing all the problems with WC3:R, and the problems with BfA - It really made me ask a serious question:

Are the days of Blizzard's age-old policy of "We'll release it when we feel it's ready" over?

Looking at all the problems WC3:R had, from every single bug and screen issue - to cinematics demonstrated in the trailer but not used in the game, to really REALLY cheap generic cinematics made for the game (Just saw the Arthas vs Illidan one... that is NOT Blizzard "ready" quality IMO!) and all the side-by-side resolution issues made me ask that question. This is NOT something Blizzard-quality, nor with all its issues is it something that should've been released at this point.

And this is all also on the backs of the reported discussions how Acti-Blizz upper echelons are forcing the devs to release stuff under resourced.

The Old Blizzard I know would've gladly punted WCIII:R to the end of this year than let it go out in the condition it currently is in to polish the bejesus out of it - and the audience, while there would be forum gripes for sure, would've still ultimately accepted it as par for the course for Blizzard-quality - knowing full well that letting something out in this state/condition is worse than postponing it for another several months.

So... is this the end of Blizzard's "We'll release it when it's ready" policy? Will we be seeing an unfinished/unpolished D4 by the end of 2021 (regardless of the Devs saying "it's not currently even Blizzard-soon ready" as the higher-ups might not care) as well as the same with Shadowlands for WoW whenever they release that one?

Where have you been?

The days of "we'll release it when we feel it's ready" have been over for YEARS.

Back to when Cataclysm was released with a bunch of cut content that left plotholes in the story.

Did you not see the state of WoD? Cut Alliance / Horde cities, battlegrounds, cut zones (Zangarmarsh, Farahlon, Ogre Island, etc), delayed zones, Garrisons being able to be built in ANY zone, working Grim Railroad, cut storylines which left the overall story feeling hollow, Tabard tab cut, a whole continent cut, new PvP mode cut, etc.

Or how BFA released with less leveling zones, no class campaigns, not many Island expeditions or content to do once you hit max level.


The days of them releasing something when it's ready are long gone.

[Mosotti]

I'm not sure I even understand how a game design studio could be that when they don't release new games but every five years or so. Blizzard is broken and has been very nearly mortally broken since Titan failed.

Blizzard doesn't rely solely on releasing games, they make money from thin air, like selling a few pixels for millions of dollars or just selling tokens for fake currencies. Money from new releases and expansions are just a plus. Then there's this very lucrative business of "remastering" and "reforging". WoW Classic made them a shitload of money with just a handful of people.

It's pretty weird that WC3 is such a shit show, because WoW Classic is an amazing achievement. It's probably all down to the actual people who worked on them, some are better than others... why it was released? Probably because Activision.

[eduwneso]

Or how BFA released with less leveling zones, no class campaigns, not many Island expeditions or content to do once you hit max level.

less leveling zones? were did you get that? I think in leveling we got what was announced, class campaigns???? they did not say or announce those were in BFA either, dude, if you are going to shit on something, do it right

[Daedius]

Blizzard has long been an echoing husk of itself trying to reap off from their glory days with Activision riding on its once good name to an unrecognizable old nag.

Sad really. I used to think they were one of the best games companies out there. Now... now they're just another piece of corporate filth that has no soul.

Just look at Ion's eyes... he's the face of that soulless company (for WoW).

[Rivex]

I think the public aren't as short sighted and tempored towards games as the majority of people claim.

Look at Star Citizen and Hytale both pushed backed for years, both maintaining and growing in popularity

[Linuriel]

They stopped doing that with World of Warcraft 15 years ago. I mean look at how much content was cut from the game. You can't claim that that game was ready. They later added some things in patches and expansions that were originally planned to be in for the release of Classic. Outland, Northrend and many dungeons and raids. That's the opposite of releasing it when it's ready. And you can't just redefine when something is ready.

[Mekkle]

that ended with wod

[Niwes]

While this thread risks falling into a girpefest, I feel after seeing all the problems with WC3:R, and the problems with BfA - It really made me ask a serious question:

Are the days of Blizzard's age-old policy of "We'll release it when we feel it's ready" over?

Looking at all the problems WC3:R had, from every single bug and screen issue - to cinematics demonstrated in the trailer but not used in the game, to really REALLY cheap generic cinematics made for the game (Just saw the Arthas vs Illidan one... that is NOT Blizzard "ready" quality IMO!) and all the side-by-side resolution issues made me ask that question. This is NOT something Blizzard-quality, nor with all its issues is it something that should've been released at this point.

And this is all also on the backs of the reported discussions how Acti-Blizz upper echelons are forcing the devs to release stuff under resourced.

The Old Blizzard I know would've gladly punted WCIII:R to the end of this year than let it go out in the condition it currently is in to polish the bejesus out of it - and the audience, while there would be forum gripes for sure, would've still ultimately accepted it as par for the course for Blizzard-quality - knowing full well that letting something out in this state/condition is worse than postponing it for another several months.

So... is this the end of Blizzard's "We'll release it when it's ready" policy? Will we be seeing an unfinished/unpolished D4 by the end of 2021 (regardless of the Devs saying "it's not currently even Blizzard-soon ready" as the higher-ups might not care) as well as the same with Shadowlands for WoW whenever they release that one?

lol. you are a bit late to the party. forgot about the last few xpacs ?

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that ended with wod

exactly. /10chars

maybe Cata too. But for 100% sure in WoD and onwards. Hell, WoD had Apexis locations that werent used usefully in game.

[StillMcfuu]

There was big discussion back in old times. Would Blizzard still make good games, if Wow would lose too many subscribers? I.e. what would be better? "Good" game, that is done, as Blizzard see it, but with small amount of players, or catering to "casuals", just to have more subs and higher revenues? Would this game survive with just 1M subs? Here is the answer. When every game developer, no matter, how good he is, without any exceptions, starts to need money to survive - he loses all his moral values and ethical norms. This is sad truth of life.

We say that the game is catering to casuals, but I find it really hard to say that when it seems the game is split between hardcore players and xmog/mount players.

Power progression is almost exclusively locked behind coordinated group play. If it's not behind that wall, it's on top of Mt Everest and takes a long grind to get to. WoW is more unfriendly to "casual" players then it's ever been.

I wish the game would be more casual friendly, so if I get on I can still make some kind of progression, even if I only have an hour. As it is right now, you spend more time fighting with group finder than actually playing the game.

[Khaza-R]

I think MoP was the last instance of a title with the old we’ll release it when it’s ready mentality.

I think Diablo IV will be very telling of the future of Blizzard. That franchise rides on that game and if it’s not carefully and lovingly crafted then it’s going to be a disaster.

[qwikz]

Completly different situation. You cannot compare Offline SP Games to MMORPGS!

One is a singel player game where you are not playing anyway right now. So who realy cares about a bit of a longer wait. Also most players allready preorded this game. Me too.

The other is a MMO which relies on a steady stream of new content or poeple will leave the game, and once you leave there is a high chance, that you are not coming back.

Mate, you do realize Blizzard make games other than World of Warcraft right? OP is even pointing out the Warcraft 3 Reforged release which is a shitshow.

Also your argument for MMOs is easily proven wrong anyway, subs always drop during an expansion and then peaks again at the release of a new expansion. People will always come back if Blizzard makes something that interests them. The "release no matter what" mentality is simply to appease shareholders.

[crusadernero]

I'd say the world changes for any company the instant it goes public.

Sure, this is not something unique to Blizzard. Its rather normal when a company gets this big.

Back when Blizzard started up it was more or less a huge band of nerds wanting to create something cool and unique in the gaming world. They wanted to share theyre ideas & vision for everyone. All the while spending lots of time playing D&D and other games.

The games of old Blizzard really hit home with gamers, straight in the heart. It was made by gamers, for gamers.

20+ years down the line they are now a international "superpower" in the gaming world with millions of fans across different platforms. All the while being pressured to deliver to shareholders.

The people who started it up are all gone and replaced by someone who might not have that special touch that made Blizzard what they once were.

Different times. All good things come to an end.

[Nathanyel]

BUT - Its a different world now than back in the 90s and early 2000s. Back then Blizzard didnt have millions upon millions playing theyre games. They didnt have lots of people losing theyre shit about literally everything, everyday, on the internet.

If they delay stuff today it means a shitshow on the internet, bad PR and people who quit the game(s) and never come back. People demand new stuff all the time.

I feel that both Blizzard and the players overestimate this. Sure, lots of players quit each patch, but many come back, despite claiming to "delete their account".
Every patch, leading up to it and after release, you get tons of people claiming they played since Vanilla, complaining that this minor thing is making them quit forever.

[VinceVega]

Mate, you do realize Blizzard make games other than World of Warcraft right? OP is even pointing out the Warcraft 3 Reforged release which is a shitshow.

Also your argument for MMOs is easily proven wrong anyway, subs always drop during an expansion and then peaks again at the release of a new expansion. People will always come back if Blizzard makes something that interests them. The "release no matter what" mentality is simply to appease shareholders.

Don't call me mate, buddy! (*winkwink*)

We don't have reliable data for either our statements. But i know more than a few people who took the SoO content drought to stop playing all together. STrawman... but what isn't.

I do agree that Blizzard has to change, but i also think that postponing wow expansions to far will hurt Blizz more than delivering an uncompleted product and in the end they are there to make money first and then make us happy later. If the second one does not majorly interfere with the first why should they care?

And yes the warcraft 3 debacle is overadvertising. The game itself is not bad

[TheTaurenChieftain]

We say that the game is catering to casuals, but I find it really hard to say that when it seems the game is split between hardcore players and xmog/mount players.

Power progression is almost exclusively locked behind coordinated group play. If it's not behind that wall, it's on top of Mt Everest and takes a long grind to get to. WoW is more unfriendly to "casual" players then it's ever been.

I wish the game would be more casual friendly, so if I get on I can still make some kind of progression, even if I only have an hour. As it is right now, you spend more time fighting with group finder than actually playing the game.

Your comment speaks to me. I have heard this argument a lot of times "Modern WoW caters too much to the casuals". When in reality most people who actually play WoW at the moment are hardcore raiders or transmog grinders. I would define myself as a casual player and I knew a lot of casual players who played WoW back in the day. And they all don't play WoW anymore. All the systems currently ingame are very casual-unfriendly.

And most of the time casual players also want a challenge. But most of the so-called "casual" content is so easy that you can do it without using your brain. And all the challenging content is locked behind finding a guild and group play. Classic WoW had a challenge even for players who played alone. Casuals don't want easy systems which reward you with minimal effort. They want meaningful rewards for a good challenge. "Casual" only means that they might not have as much time playing WoW as other people.

A casual player would want the maximum fun in a short amount of time and not easy content. Easy content isn't fun. This is the problem. Grinding also can be fun if there is a challenge or if there are interesting mechanics. Monster Hunter is also a very grindy game, for example. But the mechanics and the boss fights (even single player) as well as the rewards make the grinding process fun.

I also really liked grinding WoW back in the day. But the current systems are so unrewarding and unchallenging and, well, very boring.

In the end I just want to mention that I don't think the "WoW caters too much to casuals" argument ist true, because most of the casuals I know don't play the game anymore. The only people who actually play the game are all "hardcore players" who define the lesser hardcore players as casuals. But the actual casuals don't even play anymore. And Blizzard doesn't even get casual feedback, because they don't play the game. So Blizzard only gets feedback from hardcore players and casual hardcore players.

When I look at some threads suggesting changes to make WoW better I see a lot of people saying "Jeah. If these changes happen WoW will be better". But when I look at all the words people are using and all the suggestions I don't even understand what they are saying anymore, because the people are talking about systems and content which most of the time are only liked by the hardcore players. Most of the casual look at those suggestions and ask themselves "What are the people even talking about? Azerite? Essences? I just want to have fun playing WoW again".

[Darkimpact]

That policy has been dead and gone for a while. Their policy has been release it on time for the shareholders for years now and everyone knows it.

[Timewalker]

That ended with Cataclysm. Cataclysm was the last expansion that felt polished.

[dope_danny]

That policy surely isn't a thing anymore. Almost all the people that made the games you love dont work there and most havent for years. This is Activision-Blizzard. Look at the quality of their games across the board in the last ten years and name a single one thats gotten better and not worse. Just one. Any single game Actiblizz has made objectively better rather than forced a user exodus by pushing mobile game mechanics to supplant rpg ones, real money microtransactions or their old reliable "this will be the brood war esports lightning in a bottle if we force it, 15th times the charm!" strategy.

Take it from a diehard Silent Hill fan: brand loyalty is a thing. Companies will put out any old shit with the names of series you love on it as long as enough rubes will still buy it either through nostalgia, some misinformed sense of continuity of developers or just sticking to the brands they know in some sad but hopeful self bargaining pact that "t-this time its going to be like the good old days again!". Doesn't mean the thing you love is still around just because a corporate entity owns the rights to use it.

The last two years Actiblizzion has let the mask slip a lot and it seems from the outside looking in things that used to get all the care and attention in the world are farted out on a stricter production budget because enough people will still buy it because of the name on the box and for no other reason. Until enough people rip the band aid off and ask themselves "am i being played a fool?" rather than hunkering down in the brand defender bunker of "criticism of the product means indirectly i am under attack for all the time and money i put into the product, time to put fingers in ears and consume product while getting excited for next product and clap when i see the names i recognise as the companies tell me its some boogeyman because the internets known for people being unified and agreeing about something en masse" where people turn into a bitter fuck who wonders why their guildies dont invite them when they drift to play other things together.

As long as you pay for it the quality wont improve it will only decline. Because you voted with your wallet to say you are fine and willing to put up with it.

They just hit too many peoples personal limits in the last couple of years far earlier than expected i think.

[crusadernero]

I feel that both Blizzard and the players overestimate this. Sure, lots of players quit each patch, but many come back, despite claiming to "delete their account".
Every patch, leading up to it and after release, you get tons of people claiming they played since Vanilla, complaining that this minor thing is making them quit forever.

Maybe, but we cant overlook the fact that whatever Blizzard does today it creates a shitstorm. If they were to delay SL to early 2021 to get it perfect, it would create a shitstorm from the day they announced the delay until its out. By that time alot of damage can be done and everything sits on how good SL is.

So instead of taking theyre time and perfecting each game/xpac/patch, they steadily releases "good enough" games/xpacs/patches that keeps the players fairly interested just long enough.