Mega-Thread: Democratic 2020 Primaries

[Benggaul]

I was a little taken aback by the aggressive pandering to black people, with every single one of them tripping over each other to get the same bullet points out first. Also, I was aware of Buttigieg struggle with the black vote, but if the moderator lady is any indication it looks like black people consider him to be an actual racist? are there any level headed black people here to explain what was going on there?

What it basically boils down to is his mishandling of race issues while he was Mayor, and that he has in the past equated gay rights to black rights--which doesn't sit well with a lot of people, probably because the two aren't really the same. He may have had the best of intentions, but he's fumbled in this area a few times.

[Themius]

idk if anyone is watching msnbc but Chris Matthews is going... just off on socialism and talking about Castro and reds winning and executions in Central Park..

[omerome]

idk if anyone is watching msnbc but Chris Matthews is going... just off on socialism and talking about Castro and reds winning and executions in Central Park..

Yeah and not just today, but he's been on an anti-Sanders kick for a while now.

[Themius]

I was a little taken aback by the aggressive pandering to black people, with every single one of them tripping over each other to get the same bullet points out first. Also, I was aware of Buttigieg struggle with the black vote, but if the moderator lady is any indication it looks like black people consider him to be an actual racist? are there any level headed black people here to explain what was going on there?

He dodged the question and never answered it... his area had the highest disproportionate rate in the country at one time. And was the highest in the state. And from 2012-2018 it increased... and he never answered why, he never explained why.

Black people being targeted for drug use is a ,MAJOR MAJOR problem. Especially as.

White people are both the numbers majority AND PER CAPITA use drugs more often. But it's the blacks and Latinos ending up in jail for using drugs.

How is it pandering to black people to mention race issues that affect a large section of the population???

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Yeah and not just today, but he's been on an anti-Sanders kick for a while now.

And he literally questioned how do we know if Bernie is not he Denmark side of socialism...

What's worse is he is acknowledging he is using a 70 YEAR OLD UNDERSTANDING of the word.

[Elegiac]

my opinion

non-partisan perspective

One of these things is not like the other, Dacien.

[Dacien]

One of these things is not like the other, Dacien.

I actually consider myself quite capable of separating out personal opinions from fair judgment.

[Thelxi]

How is it pandering to black people to mention race issues that affect a large section of the population???

It looked like pandering to me because Buttigieg squeezed in the list of issues at the end of his answer and then Warren was like "no", but then proceeded to list the same exact list of issues she just tried to disagree with, and then the next person did the same etc. They all had a different way of dangling money in front of black voters too. If that doesn't constitute pandering I don't know what does. I didn't hear any transformational vision of the future either about actual equality or something, it was just I can do more for you no I can do more for you I will give you more money etc.

[Elegiac]

I actually consider myself quite capable of separating out personal opinions from fair judgment.

Yes. That's called Dunning-Kruger at work, Dacien.

[Thelxi]

What it basically boils down to is his mishandling of race issues while he was Mayor, and that he has in the past equated gay rights to black rights--which doesn't sit well with a lot of people, probably because the two aren't really the same. He may have had the best of intentions, but he's fumbled in this area a few times.

That doesn't sound as dire as I thought it was. Maybe I read too much into it.

[zealo]

I actually consider myself quite capable of separating out personal opinions from fair judgment.

What you consider yourself to be capable of isn't necessarily the case.

[omerome]

And he literally questioned how do we know if Bernie is not he Denmark side of socialism...

What's worse is he is acknowledging he is using a 70 YEAR OLD UNDERSTANDING of the word.

The problem is, he's not even trying to understand. He has his mind made up and there's no changing that. SMH. I really wish we could redefine the word because it's clear that Bernie is not talking about communism or turning this country into Venezuela or something. And I'm not even a Bernie Bro or anything.

[Themius]

It looked like pandering to me because Buttigieg squeezed in the list of issues at the end of his answer and then Warren was like "no", but then proceeded to list the same exact list of issues she just tried to disagree with, and then the next person did the same etc. They all had a different way of dangling money in front of black voters too. If that doesn't constitute pandering I don't know what does. I didn't hear any transformational vision of the future either about actual equality or something, it was just I can do more for you no I can do more for you I will give you more money etc.

The questions was if his answer was sufficient, which it wasn't.. BECAUSE HE DODGED THE QUESTION.

He fired the first black police chief of south bend, and allowed his officers to profile leading to this one area to become one of the most disproportionate place in America concerning arrest of black marijuana users... He tried to blame "violence" but there is nothing NOTHING showing that was the case.

[Blur4stuff]

Comparing what Sanders wants for the US to Venezuela is like claiming the Earth is flat.

Um, hello? Medicare and SS have existed for several decades. Is the US like Venezuela right now? Improving Medicare and removing the age requirement isn't going to somehow magically transform the country into a hellhole.

If the current existence of Medicare isn't enough to persuade you, just consider the fact that dozens of other countries have also had their own versions of universal healthcare for decades. They're great places to live. In fact, better than many individual US states.

If you had to choose a place to live for the rest of your life, would you really choose Alabama over Denmark, France, or Singapore? Hell, toss in another few dozen choices like Iceland, Japan, or Canada. They don't have an exact copy of M4A, but you're sure as hell better off there than Mississippi or West Virginia.

[Thelxi]

The questions was if his answer was sufficient, which it wasn't.. BECAUSE HE DODGED THE QUESTION.

He fired the first black police chief of south bend, and allowed his officers to profile leading to this one area to become one of the most disproportionate place in America concerning arrest of black marijuana users... He tried to blame "violence" but there is nothing NOTHING showing that was the case.

Ok so two questions:

-Did he fire the black police chief because he is racist?
-When you say allow, are you implying he greenlit racist police misconduct? or that he just wasn't paying enough attention as a good mayor should've? maybe something else?

[Sorshen]

Pete is running for the billionaires. Won't anyone think of the poor billionaires?

[Blur4stuff]

Pete's handling of those questions is classic politician song and dance. He knows he didn't do a good job (and perhaps actively did something wrong), but he can't admit that at this point because it would make it impossible to win. Kind of like Warren's handling of the native american thing.

This doesn't make him an evil person. What it does do is remind me of how Trump is incapable of admitting he fucked up and then learning from the mistake. All Pete had to do starting many months ago wad admit he could have handled it better and the issue wouldn't even have been brought up in this debate. It would be done.

[Benggaul]

That doesn't sound as dire as I thought it was. Maybe I read too much into it.

Meh, don't take my word for it. I gave you a basic summary of some of the things I read, but by no means did I do an exhaustive study. There might be more that I didn't read about--I trust his constituents' opinions over my own.

[Thelxi]

Pete's handling of those questions is classic politician song and dance. He knows he didn't do a good job (and perhaps actively did something wrong), but he can't admit that at this point because it would make it impossible to win. Kind of like Warren's handling of the native american thing.

This doesn't make him an evil person. What it does do is remind me of how Trump is incapable of admitting he fucked up and then learning from the mistake. All Pete had to do starting many months ago wad admit he could have handled it better and the issue wouldn't even have been brought up in this debate. It would be done.

I mean he will have to start answering these questions eventually especially with South Carolina coming up, he can't just pander like the rest of them after throwing out statistics that appear to be irrelevant.

[I Push Buttons]

White people are both the numbers majority AND PER CAPITA use drugs more often. But it's the blacks and Latinos ending up in jail for using drugs.

Hardly anyone ends up in jail for just using drugs. They are in jail for having a volume of drugs beyond personal use, IE: distribution. And black and Hispanic gangs control the drug trade pretty much everywhere, hence why they are disproportionately affected.

If you show me any given person in jail for a tiny 'personal use' amount of weed, which itself is extremely rare (especially at the federal level where it basically doesn't exist), there is a 99% chance that person has a laundry list of prior criminal convictions and they are in jail due to habitual/persistent offender laws, not because they got caught with a joint.

This narrative that every other person in jail/prison is an innocent 'POC' who got caught with a small amounts of marijuana is just so fucking absurd and wrong.

Here are some stats for you...

Local Jails:
Total Number of (convicted) prisoners: 150,000
Number of prisoners convicted of drug offenses (as their most serious offense); this includes ALL DRUGS and ALL DRUG CRIMES, not just marijuana posession: 35,000

State Prisons:
Total number of prisoners: 1,316,000
Number of prisoners convicted of 'drug possession' (as their most serious offense); this includes all drugs, not just marijuana: 3.4% - 44,700

Federal Prison:
Total number of prisoners: 225,000
Number of prisoners convicted of 'drug possession' (as their most serious offense): 213
Number of prisoners convicted of 'drug possession' (as their most serious offense); marijuana in particular: 92

[Flarelaine]

His claim isn't that Iowa was done Caucus style, his claim is that "Bernie's camp" were demanding it to be caucus style.

So... you're basically confirming that the guy I was responding to was full of shit then?

No, I just pointed something out. There is a lot of confusion over what happened, how and why. I believe most of the posters are arguing in good faith - the situation is complicated enough.