"These women fight with unmatched savagery!... They are... perfect warriors!"

[Toppy]

These women fight with unmatched savagery! I've never seen their equal. They are... perfect warriors." ~ Grom Hellscream

That quote may not be the most well known in Warcraft - though certainly up there - but it is the most influential by far.

Is too much weight put behind this above quote from Grom? What I mean is, Night Elf fans seem to always fall back on this quote when discussing how powerful Night Elves should be. They don't seemingly have anything else to fall back on in regards to how mighty individual Night Elves are supposed to be, not even from WC3 itself which didn't capitalize on how "Perfect" the night elves are aside from saying it the one time- mind you, they then proceed to have the one Orcish clan demolish the offending army of "Perfect warriors". They have no particular warriors of note; yes they have leaders and generals, but those either fall back on magic, or are neither portrayed nor stated to be especially skilled like champions of other races may be said to be; the closest is Shandris but in novels she's portrayed as average, and in game its hard to tell since she's more or less on par with anyone else you might partner with, the most that can be said is she doesn't like planning things out.

This isn't to dis on Night Elves mind you. Rather, I feel that many have hamstrung themselves by putting way to much behind the words of one single individual. It's almost ironic that the most important thing to many Night Elf fans is the words of an Orc. It makes discussion difficult as often it falls back into complaining about how Night Elves were once great warriors! Remember that time Grom said the thing!?

[DemonHunter18]

I only remember people saying that Tyrande was better in WC3 than in WoW.

I don't remember people saying Night Elves are the greatest warriors on Azeroth or something.

[Florena]

I only remember people saying that Tyrande was better in WC3 than in WoW.

I don't remember people saying Night Elves are the greatest warriors on Azeroth or something.

People have said that about NElves in general (being badass in WC3, lame in WoW) since like, vanilla, not just Tyrande herself. Growing more prominent the more they were used as the punching bag for horde aggression in Cata/BFA.

[DemonHunter18]

People have said that about NElves in general (being badass in WC3, lame in WoW) since like, vanilla, not just Tyrande herself. Growing more prominent the more they were used as the punching bag for horde aggression in Cata/BFA.

they are annoying asf.

did you see that Darkshore cinematic???

that was soo cringy.

[derpkitteh]

this is a heavy quote because grom's one of the greatest warriors to ever exist. if he says that the average nelf sentinel is the perfect warrior, their peak for performance should shit on everyone else in wow.

also, look back to the night elven empire dominating zandalari forces during the ascension of the night elves. they absolutely decimated the zandalari with ease.

[Cizr]

Well it was said by Grom who was pretty savage warrior and not by some random peon. He fought ogres,humans,dwarves, draenei and high elves and yet savagery of these elves suprised him. I would take his words for it.

I dont think that it means that they are unbeatable or super powerful. Savage is mindset

[Syegfryed]

He said they were perfect because they mix savagery and technique, something Grom did himself, not because they were better than everyone, cause you know, they get streamrolled pretty hard that the demigod had to step in

of course, lets not forget how the elves lost many of their power and immortality after the third war, and if even before they got their ass kicked, its nonsense belive they would be much better

Grant it, of course the NE in general had fallen, but thats blizzard(and players..) fault, adapting then to the alliance made then soft

[Arikara]

The reason people like the Wc3 Night Elves isn't attributed to a single quote, much less one from the campaigns. It's because—unlike in WoW—they are actually portrayed as a new and unique faction, with a culture and perspective that is all their own, and a slew of badass quotes that they themselves speak when ordered around, which is the RTS equivalent of teaching you about who they are and what their entire deal is, while playing as them.

But that doesn't make them somehow godlike warriors, it just means that the writers of Wc3 had a very specific vision for the Night Elves, which they carried out and implemented, while the WoW Night Elves have been left behind to slowly rot. It was never about their skill as fighters, it was about attitude, culture, and their place in the world.

I mean, damnit, they even just casually abandoned their 10000 years of anti-arcane magic sentiment just because oh lets make Nelves be able to be mages. Fuck that. You want well-written elves? Have them actually address their stance on the matter during Malygos' Nexus War—literally just have any elven character take a strong stance on where exactly they stand as far as that is concerned, and then from there maybe see about permitting Nelf mages, instead of just randomly throwing it out there because more alts.

[Syegfryed]

I only remember people saying that Tyrande was better in WC3 than in WoW.

I don't remember people saying Night Elves are the greatest warriors on Azeroth or something.

night elves before were way more "wood elves" or like the drow

now they are just some cliche lotr elf being human buddies

[DemonHunter18]

night elves before were way more "wood elves" or like the drow

now they are just some cliche lotr elf being human buddies

LoL true.

Blizzard are trying to make them badass but I just don't feel it, you know.

[Toppy]

this is a heavy quote because grom's one of the greatest warriors to ever exist. if he says that the average nelf sentinel is the perfect warrior, their peak for performance should shit on everyone else in wow.

also, look back to the night elven empire dominating zandalari forces during the ascension of the night elves. they absolutely decimated the zandalari with ease.

The Night Elven empire largely spread due to a lack of unity among the trolls, as well as superior magics. So, their past is more "They are perfect magic users" rather than warriors. Never have they been portrayed as or stated to be mighty warriors in the past. Their history ALWAYS talks about their magics and never their martial skill. And their present is always a "They have good archers."

Again, not even in WC3. The one and only mention of their martial prowess in the canon is the quote from Grom - from when they first met. They are consistently portrayed as average or below average when they dont have loads of magic to back them (this is even stated; that they have a reliance on archery and magic due to not being able to match other races face to face): The only two notable none magic users are Jarod, who is stated to be a leader first and foremost, and Shandris who is only stated to be great among other night elves.

[Syegfryed]

LoL true.

Blizzard are trying to make them badass but I just don't feel it, you know.

elves in general are cringe alone, in wow right now, it gets worse

i can't do a quest that has an elf thing that don't want make me vomit because how they made then being edgy or "badass"

[DemonHunter18]

Again, not even in WC3. The one and only mention of their martial prowess in the canon is the quote from Grom - from when they first met. They are consistently portrayed as average or below average when they dont have loads of magic to back them (this is even stated; that they have a reliance on archery and magic due to not being able to match other races face to face): The only two notable none magic users are Jarod, who is stated to be a leader first and foremost, and Shandris who is only stated to be great among other night elves.

yeah but that's from WoW.

they are not even good magic casters anymore nor archers.

in WC3, they didn't have any magic until they awoke the Druids.

Arcane was banned and Demon Hunters were shunned.

[darkoms]

this is a heavy quote because grom's one of the greatest warriors to ever exist. if he says that the average nelf sentinel is the perfect warrior, their peak for performance should shit on everyone else in wow.

also, look back to the night elven empire dominating zandalari forces during the ascension of the night elves. they absolutely decimated the zandalari with ease.

Night Elves won largely due to magic

[derpkitteh]

The Night Elven empire largely spread due to a lack of unity among the trolls, as well as superior magics. So, their past is more "They are perfect magic users" rather than warriors. Never have they been portrayed as or stated to be mighty warriors in the past. Their history ALWAYS talks about their magics and never their martial skill. And their present is always a "They have good archers."

Again, not even in WC3. The one and only mention of their martial prowess in the canon is the quote from Grom - from when they first met. They are consistently portrayed as average or below average when they dont have loads of magic to back them (this is even stated; that they have a reliance on archery and magic due to not being able to match other races face to face): The only two notable none magic users are Jarod, who is stated to be a leader first and foremost, and Shandris who is only stated to be great among other night elves.

their ancient empire employed magic not just in casters, but in warriors as well, as we can see from suramar. but there are other exemplary warriors from that time, too, like you said jarod, and kur'talos ravencrest.

mages are generally rarer than warriors, too. so i'd doubt most of their conquest was just from magic alone. they had to have warriors backing it up.

idk though. if i had to go off anything, grom's word on the matter is probably the safest thing to believe since he is such an incredible warrior himself. most of this probably comes down to writer biases screwing the nelves over more than their lack of skill.

[DemonHunter18]

elves in general are cringe alone, in wow right now, it gets worse

i can't do a quest that has an elf thing that don't want make me vomit because how they made then being edgy or "badass"

Void Elves, Blood Elves, High Elves, Vampire Elves what's next??

it was the best when there were High Elves and Night Elves.

[darkoms]

yeah but that's from WoW.

they are not even good with magic anymore nor archers in it.

in WC3, they didn't have any magic until they awoke the Druids.

Arcane was banned and Demon Hunters were shunned.

I think the priestesses of the moon have their own magic

[McNeil]

I believe he only says this quote if the orcs are in a losing position during the game, which is why I might've never heard of it.

[agentsi]

On-Topic: The wardens alone, are badass but that was about it. Imagine how strong they were to fight Illidan 1v1 and capture him half the time.

Off-topic.

I've never understood how Night Elves evolved from trolls, but somehow gained immortality from Elune? Like did she choose them? Or did she choose the trolls and they just never registered to pray to her because of all their loa? How did the Night Elves find out about her?

[Toppy]

yeah but that's from WoW.

they are not even good with magic anymore nor archers in it.

in WC3, they didn't have any magic until they awoke the Druids.

Arcane was banned and Demon Hunters were shunned.

In WC3, outside of the very first mission where they ambush a supply camp, they did nothing but get their asses kicked till they awoke the Druids.

- - - Updated - - -

their ancient empire employed magic not just in casters, but in warriors as well, as we can see from suramar. but there are other exemplary warriors from that time, too, like you said jarod, and kur'talos ravencrest.

mages are generally rarer than warriors, too. so i'd doubt most of their conquest was just from magic alone. they had to have warriors backing it up.

idk though. if i had to go off anything, grom's word on the matter is probably the safest thing to believe since he is such an incredible warrior himself. most of this probably comes down to writer biases screwing the nelves over more than their lack of skill.

Jarod and Kur'Talos were not exemplary warriors. They were leaders.

Its stated and always has been stated in canon that their empire rose from magic.