New Hampshire Primary 2020 Megathread

[Blur4stuff]

Trump alienated a fair number of conservatives in 2016. That number has grown significantly. I'm not saying they'll vote dem, but I wouldn't be shocked if several hundred thousand to a millionish just don't vote.

[beanman12345]

Trump alienated a fair number of conservatives in 2016. That number has grown significantly. I'm not saying they'll vote dem, but I wouldn't be shocked if several hundred thousand to a millionish just don't vote.

if even a 1/3 of those weld voters stay home, than NH is going blue again.

[Telogrus]

Worst thing for anti Bernie folks is all those other candidates to stay in the race. Especially when Bloomberg is on the ballot.

Ping ponging around all of these centrist dems is going to earn you a President Sanders.

Pete and Amy don’t even realize that they’re being useful idiots for Bernie by taking away votes from Joe. Those two have too much of an ego to drop out, so all that they’re doing is making things easier for Bernie

[Endus]

So Warren is allowed to spread smears about Bernie when she starts tanking in the polls, and Bernie supporters can’t attack her for it?

Literally no indication this is what happened. It's a conspiracy theory you and folks like you made up in your own heads.

The story didn't come out of Warren's campaign. It was from CNN; https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/13/polit...ing/index.html
They had 4 separate sources that verified this.
There's no indication, other than Sanders' denial, that he didn't say something along those lines. And if it comes down to he said/she said, there's no reason to take either side automatically.
What was said wasn't even a smear. Sanders' backlash against the report was significantly worse. He likely said something with a bit more nuance, and this could have been an opportunity to explain that, but instead, Sanders made it into a big fucking deal.

Is it probable that both remember the conversation differently, and that neither's memory is perfect? Sure. Sanders is the one who accused Warren of lying, however, rather than trying to find common ground.

[Thepersona]

if even a 1/3 of those weld voters stay home, than NH is going blue again.

Didnt Trump win because of NH, Ohio and Wisconsin (i may be wrong) by razor thin margins, while losing the popular vote?

[Wyrt]

Literally no indication this is what happened. It's a conspiracy theory you and folks like you made up in your own heads.

The story didn't come out of Warren's campaign. It was from CNN; https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/13/polit...ing/index.html
They had 4 separate sources that verified this.
There's no indication, other than Sanders' denial, that he didn't say something along those lines. And if it comes down to he said/she said, there's no reason to take either side automatically.
What was said wasn't even a smear. Sanders' backlash against the report was significantly worse. He likely said something with a bit more nuance, and this could have been an opportunity to explain that, but instead, Sanders made it into a big fucking deal.

Is it probably that both remember the conversation differently, and that neither's memory is perfect? Sure. Sanders is the one who accused Warren of lying, however, rather than trying to find common ground.

What? All he said during the debate was that he never said that and that his record back up his support of women in politics. How else was he supposed to respond to it?

[beanman12345]

Didnt Trump win because of NH, Ohio and Wisconsin (i may be wrong) by razor thin margins, while losing the popular vote?

NH went to Clinton by like 3000 votes or something. You're confusing NH with Pennsylvania that went to trump.

[Endus]

Pete and Amy don’t even realize that they’re being useful idiots for Bernie by taking away votes from Joe. Those two have too much of an ego to drop out, so all that they’re doing is making things easier for Bernie

It's the primary. It doesn't matter if anyone "takes votes away" from another candidate, here.

All that matters is that those votes support the nominee, in the general election, against Trump.

It doesn't matter how fractured the primary is, as long as Democrats come together for the actual election.

[cubby]

Trump alienated a fair number of conservatives in 2016. That number has grown significantly. I'm not saying they'll vote dem, but I wouldn't be shocked if several hundred thousand to a millionish just don't vote.

That's an interesting calculus to examine. Conservatives not necessarily voting Democrat, but not showing up to vote at all. Making Trump and down ticket candidates weaker.

[eschatological]

Warren’s campaign leaked the story... They did that for a reason.

So Warren heard Bernie say something sexist, and then decided to sit on it for 2 years and then conveniently leak it when she started tanking in the polls a month before voting started?

Again, the campaign didn't sit on it. It was mentioned during an off-the-record meeting with journalists (which they decided to break, it should be noted) THE MONTH AFTER it happened.

Then CNN reporters sat on it, until about a year and a half later they decided to put it out there a few days before the debate that was airing on.........you guess it, CNN.

Like I said, it's all about the money.

[Telogrus]

Yes. It's a primary.

Leaks happen, and I would be really hesitant about throwing guilt by association around with that Joe Rogan endorsement hanging over your heard.



No. Warren heard Bernie say something questionable but decided not to make an issue of it until the leak and everyone started freaking out about it.

Where that crossed the line was Bernie deciding to take CNN's bait and escalate it, and his supporters for running with it. I'm not going to let y'all forget that America's first serious female progressive candidate was spammed with snake emojis by so called leftists.

What was Bernie supposed to do? Admit that he’s a sexist?

Since when is calling someone a snake a sexist remark?

What’s wrong with Joe Rogan? He’s not a transphobe. He said that trans women that have been males for most of their lives and have the biological benefits of once being a man shouldn’t be allowed to compete in female fighting sports due to them having a major biological advantage, which is perfectly reasonable.

[Elegiac]

What? All he said during the debate was that he never said that and that his record back up his support of women in politics. How else was he supposed to respond to it?

"I'm not going to get into it, because it's not what we're here to talk about."

Or something to that effect. Immediately calling Warren a liar is an escalation.

[Endus]

What? All he said during the debate was that he never said that

Which is an implicit statement that Warren is lying.

and that his record back up his support of women in politics.

The "I have a black friend" defense, frankly. I'm not calling Sanders' history into question, here, and it's not really relevant to what we're talking about.

Don't fall into this kind of lazy thinking. Sometimes good people make mistakes, say the wrong thing, etc. It isn't always a big deal unless you refuse to take responsibility, as Sanders refused.

How else was he supposed to respond to it?

Figure out what he said that might have been misinterpreted in that way, and introduce that nuance.
Apologize to Warren for the misunderstanding, and express a wish that she'd brought this up earlier so he could have cleared the air.

For starters.

Presuming that you're a perfect angel who's never made any mistakes or ever misspoken or implied anything you didn't intend, and thus any criticism must be a lie, is not a position you should be applauding.

[beanman12345]

That's an interesting calculus to examine. Conservatives not necessarily voting Democrat, but not showing up to vote at all. Making Trump and down ticket candidates weaker.

It's telling that 10,000 republicans got into their cars, drove down to the polling place, or walked or however they got there, voted against trump, knowing full well trump was gonna win the primary. This is a bad night for trump. very bad.

[cubby]

It's telling that 10,000 republicans got into their cars, drove down to the polling place, or walked or however they got there, voted against trump, knowing full well trump was gonna win the primary. This is a bad night for trump. very bad.

You had my curiosity, now you have my attention.

[Elegiac]

What was Bernie supposed to do? Admit that he’s a sexist?

What Warren did after her DNA test.

Do the legwork to build understanding and admit you may have done something problematic but that you've learned from the experience.

Again, Bernie's difficulty in admitting fault is one of many reasons I don't think he's an appropriate candidate.

Since when is calling someone a snake a sexist remark?

When it's applied to one sex but not the other.

2020 doesn't exist in isolation. There's a women problem in American politics.

What’s wrong with Joe Rogan?

Aside from being a bro, which doesn't help the image of the Sanders camp?

Literally a ream of problematic statements about minorities ranging from racism to transphobia? Let's go down the list...

Pre-2010 - Constantly defending the use of the term "faggot".
2013 - “We get out, we’re giggling, ‘We’re going to go see Planet of the Apes,’ We walk in to Planet of the Apes. We walked into Africa.”
2013 - "You know people always complain that black people talk to the movie theater and talk to the screen? Yes, they do."
2014 - "I’m 100% in favor of transgender people, but to pretend that a male frame and a female frame are the same is insane."
2015 - Platforming extremists like Milo Yiannopolous and Gavin McInnes.
2016 - Repeated that trans women "have the biological benefits of once being a man shouldn’t be allowed to compete in female fighting sports due to them having a major biological advantage", which is perfectly reasonable actually pants on fire false given the available evidence of transgender participants in sports.

Now, disclaimer: it is one thing for a shitbag of this sort to endorse Sanders. It is another for Sanders to a) accept the endorsement and b) his campaign to advertise it.

What this says is that Bernie Sanders cares more about the votes of angry, bigoted white men than any minority.

[Telogrus]

What Warren did after her DNA test.

Do the legwork to build understanding and admit you may have done something problematic but that you've learned from the experience.

Again, Bernie's difficulty in admitting fault is one of many reasons I don't think he's an appropriate candidate.



When it's applied to one sex but not the other.

2020 doesn't exist in isolation. There's a women problem in American politics.



Aside from being a bro, which doesn't help the image of the Sanders camp?

Literally a ream of problematic statements about minorities ranging from racism to transphobia? Let's go down the list...

Pre-2010 - Constantly defending the use of the term "faggot".
2013 - “We get out, we’re giggling, ‘We’re going to go see Planet of the Apes,’ We walk in to Planet of the Apes. We walked into Africa.”
2013 - "You know people always complain that black people talk to the movie theater and talk to the screen? Yes, they do."
2014 - "I’m 100% in favor of transgender people, but to pretend that a male frame and a female frame are the same is insane."
2015 - Platforming extremists like Milo Yiannopolous and Gavin McInnes.
2016 - Repeated that trans women "have the biological benefits of once being a man shouldn’t be allowed to compete in female fighting sports due to them having a major biological advantage", which is perfectly reasonable actually pants on fire false given the available evidence of transgender participants in sports.

Now, disclaimer: it is one thing for a shitbag of this sort to endorse Sanders. It is another for Sanders to a) accept the endorsement and b) his campaign to advertise it.

What this says is that Bernie Sanders cares more about the votes of angry, bigoted white men than any minority.

Those first 4 sound bad but I would not be surprised that they were taken out of contest. The 2014 and 2016 quotes aren’t even bad. Rogan’s thing is that he lets people from all across the political aisle onto his podcast.

Trump won because “bros” like Joe Rogan got turned off by Democrats and their identity politics.

[Wyrt]

What Warren did after her DNA test.

Do the legwork to build understanding and admit you may have done something problematic but that you've learned from the experience.

Again, Bernie's difficulty in admitting fault is one of many reasons I don't think he's an appropriate candidate.

So, yeah, you wanted him to admit to something that there is no evidence of him doing.

[Elegiac]

So, yeah, you wanted him to admit to something that there is no evidence of him doing.

Cut it out with the strawman.

The alternative to "call Warren a liar" is not "immediately accept guilt". It's called working out a likely misunderstanding like an adult.

But no, Bernie only ever tells the truth and Warren must be lying. They couldn't possibly both have taken different things away from the same statement. /s

[Zaydin]

It's telling that 10,000 republicans got into their cars, drove down to the polling place, or walked or however they got there, voted against trump, knowing full well trump was gonna win the primary. This is a bad night for trump. very bad.

Certainly somewhat encouraging. The worst case scenario for Trump and the GOP would be people who voted for Trump in 2016 because they somehow were deluded enough to think Hillary was worse not showing up to vote at all or else voting Democratic this time around since Trump has proven to be even worse than people warned he would be in 2016.