Mega-Thread: Democratic 2020 Primaries

[Omega10]

Rising: "Pelosi signals comfort with Sanders nomination".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh_Py1cEQZg

This is awesome.

Pelosi tells reporters she is comfortable with Bernie Sanders as a potential nominee and doesn't think he would jeopardize the House majority.

I think whoever's our nominee is, we will enthusiastically embrace and we will win the White House, the Senate, and the House.

[Bodakane]

I'm a bit worried about Sanders viability with him vocally defending totalitarian regimes increasing literacy.

There's the old joke about "At least Hitler made the trains run on time", but Sanders isn't joking...

If PolPot cured cancer, could we use that cure without it being an endorsement of his regime?

[Edge-]

Seems like the establishment democrats are finally realizing that they can't beat Sanders.

This is basically a call for armistice and to start supporting Bernie.

"Support him or sink," basically.

I love how we can go from "THERE IS AN ESTABLISHMENT CONSPIRACY!" to "WELL THEY JUST COULDN'T HANDLE SANDERS AND ARE CAVING" without skipping a beat.

Or...and this may be insane...there was never any conspiracy against Sanders and y'all were being ridiculous.

[draynay]

If PolPot cured cancer, could we use that cure without it being an endorsement of his regime?

I know its a theoretical question, but how is a regime centered around the purge of intellectualism going to cure anything? Come on, they're the opposite of what is being discussed and a poor example.

Getting beyond "theoretical" we had no qualms about employing Nazi rocket scientists, but Nazi medical research is more fraught with controversy.

[starlord]

Seems like the establishment democrats are finally realizing that they can't beat Sanders.

This is basically a call for armistice and to start supporting Bernie.

"Support him or sink," basically.

cool so now you can stop with spreading conspiracy theories.

[draynay]

cool so now you can stop with spreading conspiracy theories.

I'm sure new ones will arrive shortly.

[Omega10]

wait do you mean to tell me that corrupt corporate shill dnc isn't out to get bernie?

Rather than taking more shots at Bernie and supporters of him, which includes me, could you please say something nice about the candidate of your choice, or take pot shots at Trump instead???

You say you are for M4A. Do and say things that advance the cause of M4A, not things that push it back. Holding Sanders up to standards of perfection that just do not exist in the real world guarantees failure for the M4A side. Well failure for now... we'll have another candidate for you to tear down should Sanders fail.

Technically, you win this one. You win, I lose. Congratulations???

[PACOX]

wait do you mean to tell me that corrupt corporate shill dnc isn't out to get bernie?

Do you see that?
Little StrawBros as far as the eyes can see.

[starlord]

Rather than taking more shots at Bernie and supporters of him, which includes me, could you please say something nice about the candidate of your choice, or take pot shots at Trump instead???

You say you are for M4A. Do and say things that advance the cause of M4A, not things that push it back. Holding Sanders up to standards of perfection that just do not exist in the real world guarantees failure for the M4A side. Well failure for now... we'll have another candidate for you to tear down should Sanders fail.

Technically, you win this one. You win, I lose. Congratulations???

why am i not allowed to criticize the current frontrunner?
M4A would indeed be nice, and i support it, but i would also be happy with expanding healthcare access in the many other ways available. M4A is an end to the goal of expanding healthcare, not the goal in of itself.
also, i despise cults of personality like trump & his rabid followers and it sickens me to see it repeated. you *should* question those who promise everything for nothing. otherwise you are no better than the trumpsters.

[cubby]

I'm not sure it will end up being legal, though I think it's been challenged already, will probably end up getting decided by the SC. We may find out soon (this decade-ish)! What are your concerns?

I love the entire idea. My legal concerns are with a conservatively stacked court and the Accords Clause in the Constitution. If the SCOTUS determines it violates that, then it will be illegal. Even worse, if it happens during a presidential election, say 2028/-32, it could literally overturn a Presidential Election. Which would be "bad".

Overall though, I love the entire idea and process. I hope those states that have it in their queue will pass it quickly. Those that currently have passed it and those that have it under consideration constitute 270+ EC, and that's the ball game.

[Theodarzna]

I'm a bit worried about Sanders viability with him vocally defending totalitarian regimes increasing literacy.

There's the old joke about "At least Hitler made the trains run on time", but Sanders isn't joking...

Didn't effect Obama who said the same exact thing.

[Edge-]

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/marco...b62e9dc7d995f7

"Little Marco" tried to own the libs on Twitter after the debate last night.

Unsurprisingly, it wasn't very effective.

His "And as a bonus, reefer for everyone!" snark went over about as well as the "TACO TRUCKS ON EVERY CORNER!" threats. In that everyone generally seems to think that's a pretty rad idea and is all for it.

[Theodarzna]

You could say that unity was when left and right had different ideas to improve the country and respected each others opinion even if they disagreed . These days the left is all about that they hate trump and thats it, well-being of the country be damned. And the disdain of the centrist for the establishment is simple to understand . Most centrists are working class that got fucked over by the elites that endorsed globalism.

Much of the truly Left-Wing people recognize Trump as an unimportant symptom of much more morbid problems. Liberals do spend a lot of time dwelling on Trump. Sanders doesn't spend much time dwelling on Trump; he focuses on material class politics. And Centrism is hardly a real ideology.

Centrism IS the Establishment.

[Themius]

as far as i can tell "refuse to compromise with anyone about anything" is the same as doing nothing.

But republicans are literally refusing to compromise so.... what should democrats do?

[Theodarzna]

wait do you mean to tell me that corrupt corporate shill dnc isn't out to get bernie?

No, they've merely accepted they can't outright stop him without destroying their little club so now their only hope is to corrupt and subvert a Sanders presidency.

After Iowa which, even if it was a completely honest screw up. there is zero ability now to ratfuck the primary and prevent Bernie without it being nakedly obvious.

[Themius]

There was no plan for how to pay for M4A it would eventually trickle down to where everyone pays more who gets healthcare through their company in the form of higher taxes.

I dont want to pay higher taxes not that i dont want to pay taxes. The only thing i would be willing to pay a bit higher tax right now for is infrastructure and paying teachers more. Democrats want college for all yet we cant even get our public education right.

Okay seriously what is your problem with taxes?

I make a healthy amount taxes really don’t mean much to me but I’m not exactly a cash hoarder. I mean most of my money is indeed being hoarded because I don’t spend much outside of investments but I live comfortably so what is there to complain about.

Why do you not want taxes to go to healthcare. Like do you have clue how much it would save us. We could drastically lower costs. Negotiate shit. We also would have fewer deaths and a more productive populace.

[Theodarzna]

There was no plan for how to pay for M4A it would eventually trickle down to where everyone pays more who gets healthcare through their company in the form of higher taxes.

I dont want to pay higher taxes not that i dont want to pay taxes. The only thing i would be willing to pay a bit higher tax right now for is infrastructure and paying teachers more. Democrats want college for all yet we cant even get our public education right.

For you individually the cost of M4A would be cheaper per year, per month, then the current system.

[Drutt]

My legal concerns are with a conservatively stacked court and the Accords Clause in the Constitution.

I believe that only prohibits them from making treaties and the like with each other without the assent of Congress, correct?

Which means it seems there are two relatively easy outs. First, get the assent of Congress. Given that you'd need overwhelming state support to make the National Popular Vote a thing, it seems unlikely those state's representatives would attempt to block it.

Secondly, you could nullify the agreement and just have each state independently pass a law stating its electors go to the NPV winner. The clause specifically blocks treaties between states without assent, but each state is already legally allowed to independently determine how it assigns its state electors.

[Omega10]

why am i not allowed to criticize the current frontrunner?
M4A would indeed be nice, and i support it, but i would also be happy with expanding healthcare access in the many other ways available. M4A is an end to the goal of expanding healthcare, not the goal in of itself.
also, i despise cults of personality like trump & his rabid followers and it sickens me to see it repeated. you *should* question those who promise everything for nothing. otherwise you are no better than the trumpsters.

There are times to question, and time to put aside some differences to unite against Trump. My vote is choice two. Say positive things about the candidate of your choosing. Surely there is a candidate that has your vision.

I highly recommend not comparing me to trumpsters. It is disconcerting that you hold me in such low regards

[Draco-Onis]

again, thats not going to happen anytime soon. you clearly don't know how the process works if you think a slim majority is a free pass for the dem agenda.
is it more defeatist whining to say "republicans won't let us get anything done and any compromise *to* get something done is a betrayal", or "bernie's famed inability to get anything done by being uncompromising is a big hindrance to actually achieving progressive goals"?

were you asleep during Trump years? you can pass a lot using reconciliation and other loopholes in senate rules. Trump passed the biggest change to the tax code in years with a slim majority so I am not sure what you are talking about.

- - - Updated - - -

Except gay marriage and M4A aren't even almost comparable in terms of how they would be implemented.

All it took for gay marriage to be legal was a shift in opinion on the Supreme Court to say "this state law that bans gay marriage is unconstitutional", that's it, it instantly became legal everywhere after that. Congress wasn't involved even slightly.

M4A requires 60 votes in the Senate and Sanders won't even have a majority of votes backing it.

Two ways Bernie can do it through budget reconciliation which is how Trump got a lot of bills passed or get rid of the filibuster which in my opinion is long overdue.