Mage Tower >>> Horrific Visions

[Kehego]

by your definition of oneshot then only lich king fight had one shots where you couldnt do anything about it. no raid or dungeon has what you just described as oneshot.

I mean there are instakill mechanics on fights like orgozoa but sure

[Eapoe]

- Seven different versions which means less repetitive
- Not gated behind a crappy gated item, that you need to upgrade every week
- Unique cool skin weapon rewards

Less repetitive but still extremely repetitive. Challenges shared between multiple specs on different classes.
Gated behind currency to buy a currency to get an attempt.
Yeah, you get a pretty awesome looking weapon for some specs vs a cloak that increases damage, helps raid/m+, and is still an xmog (which I personally don’t like).
The other thing is, these aren’t equivalent and I don’t understand why people use this argument. One is a challenge that was completely optional at xmog, and the other is a core component to increasing player power. They aren’t meant to be the same thing and comparing the 2 is just stupid.

[Kehego]

Bullshit. One of the mobs threw you off the platform. Can't remember if it were the eyes or the infernals, but it wiped me many many times on some classes.

Yeah it was an aoe on the ground that you could move out of.

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All of those suck, the weapon skins are way better.

Mage tower was way better, fights tunned for each spec, good rewards, easy to get currency, an actual challenge.

Visions are ok, horribly tunned across different specs, cosmetic rewards are beyond meh, needs to be repeated over and over again just to upgrade your cloak.

They def didnt tune agatha and xylem well, then. Because any class that had a victory rush could basically faceroll both.

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Pretty much, Balance druid MT challenge was utterly laughable compared to the other specs forced to do the Twins scenario. Also there were a number of specs where it was completely trivialised by the acquisition of specific legendaries.

Frost mage and MM hunter were both faceroll. I literally never played MM but concussive shot has a 100% uptime sooooooo kiting can't be hard

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Some of the mage towers were just a ton easier than others. The imp mother one actually was one of the easiest there if you had aoe. All my alts that were strong aoe specs that had her rolled her. I even managed to do it on a gimp geared outlaw spec rogue. If you were a single target class though it was WAY harder to do. The arms warrior one just infuriated me. So many weird bugs on that damn tower I eventually just said piss on it.

the trick was to artifact ability the icicle surround

[MakeMeLaugh]

They def didnt tune agatha and xylem well, then. Because any class that had a victory rush could basically faceroll both.

It was obviously not perfect, but fights had small differences across specs. It was still much better than visions in terms of balancing because visions has 0 balance, except for tanks and healers.

From what I remember, having a "victory rush" didn't mean the fight would be faceroll compared to other specs. Xylem did more damage to frost dk's I think, for example. Prot paly boss and adds had double the hp compared to other tanks.

[Bumkin]

you only had to do mage tower a few times and then no reason to go back. Visions have some shit to go back for

a few times? i did like 400 tries on my guardian druid but i did it when it was hard

[Kehego]

It was obviously not perfect, but fights had small differences across specs. It was still much better than visions in terms of balancing because visions has 0 balance, except for tanks and healers.

From what I remember, having a "victory rush" didn't mean the fight would be faceroll compared to other specs. Xylem did more damage to frost dk's I think, for example. Prot paly boss and adds had double the hp compared to other tanks.

Don't post your "I think" without definitive proof, please and thanks.

And that also doesn't matter if he did more damage because frost dks literally healed 25% hp from every icicle/shadow realm thing they killed so

[Tang0]

You can guess whatever you want. I've done visions and mage tower, none are super hard with a few exceptions, but they are just exceptions, not the norm. I always run duo with my elemental shaman, but I'm pretty sure I can solo with it as well.

My cheat death didn't even proc...

If you are trying to run visions with WQ gear that's your problem, that doesn't prove visions are hard.

Visions is always the same shit, gets boring real fast. I like to play a lot of toons and I just can't be bothered to try and go for max difficulty for better gear on every alt because of how boring it gets, I end up just doing the bare minimum to upgrade the cloak.

Yeah, i remember people like you from the mage tower days as well. Ele shaman with legs legendary that could literally stand still and just shoot agatha - "yeah, this mage tower is nothing special, pretty easy".

You have to put considerable effort into clearing a vision while overgearing it with an above average gear luck - "yeah, nothing hard here". Can you not look at things objectively? It's the same argument people had about mage tower when tomb of sargeras power increase wave rolled over.

[Ielenia]

Yes, and I had fun lvling my alts and gearing them to do mage tower and I'm fine the rewards being spec specific, with a few exceptions. Rewards being class wide doesn't make them better, that makes no sense.

It makes them better because that means I don't have to work for them a second or even a third time if I wanted to use said rewards on my alts.

MoP challenge sets were great and they are class specific as well and also much better than current vision rewards.

We're talking Mage Tower here, not Challenge modes.

[munkeyinorbit]

Harder how, exactly? Mechanical difficulty is the pinnacle of skill demands in wow, and the more skill an activity demands, the harder it is.

hard is something that some people might never be able to do regardless of how much time they put into an activity. Dunking is hard because most people can't and won't ever be able to jump high enough to dunk. Those are the best types of difficulties. Things that demand a certain level of skill. Visions do not do that. MTC at the end of the xpac didn't really do that, either for the most part. But man the tears before that were so sweet to taste as people bemoaned their failures.



Again, hard only comes in one flavor



I did no such thing.

A boss that necessitates 20k dps to down or you die isn't hard in and of itself. It's a pass/fail of "do you have the proper gear." If your char sims at 20k and you're still missing, then yeah. L2P. But that bar is far lower than having to do actual mechanics while also needing to maintain a minimum dps.

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The prot pally tanking challenge was all about pulling and holding agro on enemies and also mitigating at proper times. Yes, DPS would allow you to get through things faster, as is the name of the game, but the important things were positioning adds, CCing properly, holding agro, and rotating defensives. Sounds like tanking to me.

"Visions (from what I've seen) are only more difficult in that they have more damage and HP"

That was you admitting that visions are harder. I will take my apology in text form thank you.

[MakeMeLaugh]

Don't post your "I think" without definitive proof, please and thanks.

And that also doesn't matter if he did more damage because frost dks literally healed 25% hp from every icicle/shadow realm thing they killed so

Well shit I can't remember everything, but the fights were different for different specs, deal with it. The fact that you could heal yourself was part of the fight and intended.

Yeah, i remember people like you from the mage tower days as well. Ele shaman with legs legendary that could literally stand still and just shoot agatha - "yeah, this mage tower is nothing special, pretty easy".

You have to put considerable effort into clearing a vision while overgearing it with an above average gear luck - "yeah, nothing hard here". Can you not look at things objectively? It's the same argument people had about mage tower when tomb of sargeras power increase wave rolled over.

It was not hard, the end.

It makes them better because that means I don't have to work for them a second or even a third time if I wanted to use said rewards on my alts.


We're talking Mage Tower here, not Challenge modes.

And you are discussing rewards, so again, mage tower and challenge mode had better rewards than the shit vision throws at you.

[Lora]

Mage tower was gated by legendaries and currencies from dailies so it was far worse in that regard.

[Kehego]

Well shit I can't remember everything, but the fights were different for different specs, deal with it. The fact that you could heal yourself was part of the fight and intended.



It was not hard, the end.



And you are discussing rewards, so again, mage tower and challenge mode had better rewards than the shit vision throws at you.

except that you have no proof that they were different

Huge yikes

[Tident]

I kinda wish visions had a end point... it feels like I'm going to be grinding them forever for sockets...

[Tang0]

It was not hard, the end.
And you are discussing rewards, so again, mage tower and challenge mode had better rewards than the shit vision throws at you.

Could you please humor me with an excuse, why you couldn't get all mt challenges done for 1 character for almost half a year? Surely if they weren't hard you could spare 20 minutes and do the rest for your main.

Also i personally think vision rewards are better than the mage tower. But that's just me. Too bad you think that "your opinion" = "everyone's opinion"

I kinda wish visions had a end point... it feels like I'm going to be grinding them forever for sockets...

Well, that depends if you have the end goal. If you clear the content you aim to clear - why would you need to continue socketing every piece of your gear for it to become obsolete in a few month?

Unless you need those sockets to reach some personal in-game goals or to fuel chasing the min-maxing dragon. Then yeah, 4-5 visions per socket till the shadowlands come seems to be your destiny

[Softbottom]

Could you please humor me with an excuse, why you couldn't get all mt challenges done for 1 character for almost half a year? Surely if they weren't hard you could spare 20 minutes and do the rest for your main.

Also i personally think vision rewards are better than the mage tower. But that's just me. Too bad you think that "your opinion" = "everyone's opinion"

Yea i think initially they were difficult but not 6 months in. I did my first one in nighthold gear first week at like 896 or something and it was reasonably difficult. Once I had TOS gear it was easy. I imagine in Antorus gear i would assume it was an absolute joke.

[Barzotti]

It was not hard, the end.

In other words: "it was not hard when I overgeared it to trivialize them, the end".

And you are discussing rewards, so again, mage tower and challenge mode had better rewards than the shit vision throws at you.

A weapon skin is a better reward than a 470 item with a good chance of corrupting? We don't have the same definition.

[Tident]

Could you please humor me with an excuse, why you couldn't get all mt challenges done for 1 character for almost half a year? Surely if they weren't hard you could spare 20 minutes and do the rest for your main.

Also i personally think vision rewards are better than the mage tower. But that's just me. Too bad you think that "your opinion" = "everyone's opinion"

Well, that depends if you have the end goal. If you clear the content you aim to clear - why would you need to continue socketing every piece of your gear for it to become obsolete in a few month?

Unless you need those sockets to reach some personal in-game goals or to fuel chasing the min-maxing dragon. Then yeah, 4-5 visions per socket till the shadowlands come seems to be your destiny

I...well.. I used to be in a guild that sold carry runs that over 10 years garnered me roughly 40 million gold from passively playing content I enjoyed playing anyways and I'm kinda trying to find a new guild like that...

[MakeMeLaugh]

except that you have no proof that they were different

Huge yikes

They were, sorry if you can't even remember what you had for breakfast.

Could you please humor me with an excuse, why you couldn't get all mt challenges done for 1 character for almost half a year? Surely if they weren't hard you could spare 20 minutes and do the rest for your main.

Also i personally think vision rewards are better than the mage tower. But that's just me. Too bad you think that "your opinion" = "everyone's opinion"

My main was shaman enhanc, I really did not care about getting different skins for different specs at the moment. When mage tower launched, on the first day I got it done in 5 tries. Keep doing your important research over my WoW life lmao.

Show me you running visions naked just to prove how hard they are LOL.

Keep trying dude.

In other words: "it was not hard when I overgeared it to trivialize them, the end".



A weapon skin is a better reward than a 470 item with a good chance of corrupting? We don't have the same definition.

Yes, your precious 470 will be useless next expansion, the weapon skin is forever.

[Frozenbro]

In other words: "it was not hard when I overgeared it to trivialize them, the end".



A weapon skin is a better reward than a 470 item with a good chance of corrupting? We don't have the same definition.

Pretty much this, visions rewards being better or not is subjective, tower gave me nothing useful power wise, therefore its trash for me, opposite to visions which are actually useful.

[Kehego]

They were, sorry if you can't even remember what you had for breakfast.



My main was shaman enhanc, I really did not care about getting different skins for different specs at the moment. When mage tower launched, on the first day I got it done in 5 tries. Keep doing your important research over my WoW life lmao.

Show me you running visions naked just to prove how hard they are LOL.

Keep trying dude.

"I don't have proof so I'll try to deflect" lolololol

bro, please don't do this to yourself.