LFR N'zoth--Don't bother until the inevitable nerf

[Ninix]

Isnt lfr supposed to be storymode? You should only have a glorified dummy bosses in there that do some abilities that look like something, but arent really dangerous?

And so the cloak questline is not storymode ?

[MrLachyG]

cant wait for next thread then

why we cant fill even a single raid for hours

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but that "content" is not something which interest me in slightest. and seemingly it doesnt interest most of playerbase thus such heavy nerfs in month 1 of patch.

i cant do nzoth ? who cares i cba with raiding anyway and there is no limited time mount from nzoth unless i missed something. and even then i would just buy a boost .
.

there is, from heroic.

[Aphrel]

Yeah people dpsing random tentacles or only psychus and then blaming the tank boss magically didn't stack all the debuffs by itself.

If only this was the issue. Then i could swoop in on a magic broom and save the raid by dpsing the tentacles and get an easy weekly kill. But no.. Always have to get those tanks that never goes the same route twiice and who always drops poop on corpses...

[Orwell7]

See this shit people? Do you ACTUALLY see that Blizzard can make the game easy as FUCK people still cannot complete it.

Ladies and Gentleman and (insert something that is PC), this is the evidence we need that Blizzard SHOULD NOT CATER TO special snowflakes, casuals, or whatnot.
So to speak, the playerbase is as stupid as the game developers "want them to be".

Why? Because WoW is 95% braindead zombie gaming, wtf do we need to think about? If something not dies on the first attempt, just quit and find a new group, but YOU ARE NOT guilty AT ALL. Only others. Not you!
Get some RNG corruption and YOU can max dps meters! No matter your skill level, how many hours you wasted on raidbots...

The 5% left for the original gamers are still good (raiding), but everything else, with fool-proofing every step we take is just laughable and will backfire.

[MrLachyG]

well the hotfix is definitely in - you cannot queue for the final wing without the leggo cloak

[Vilendor]

I maxed on stacks of determination so I feel you.

There is a determination buff cap?
How much is it?

[Redroniksre]

I joined in at 10 determination. About 4/5 wipes later we got it easy. Fight is simple the only thing is maybe Blizzard needs to force split half the raid into the other zone as opposed to letting them choose. Also had people saying not to focus Psychus and just do tenticles and cleave him. But after about 5 stacks if you dont focus him you will hit the wipe in LFR, since there usually isnt enough cleave.

See this shit people? Do you ACTUALLY see that Blizzard can make the game easy as FUCK people still cannot complete ...

Right so they should cater to the 5% so the rest quit and the game shuts down? I mean then its the hardest boss of all, the login screen. Big galaxy brain moment there.

[Zephire]

You instantly go insane without it, so yes, it's a requirement. You also need it for the Carapace to restore your sanity or else you don't make it through the fight.

Not so sure... The only time I use the cloak in HC is when we have cleared one side of the room, to get back quicker, that's around 60-70% sanity. After that I don't use it at all. I think you should be able to play it in a way so that you won't ever need to use the cloak, since you can also run back to Wrathion by foot and you can pick up sanity orbs. The cloak is convinient, can't argue about that but, except for the instant MC, the cloak is not needed for up to HC (I have not done mythic version).

OT:
It's not wierd that they keep the cloak mechanic but a bit strange to let people sign for it. Just for the sole reason it's wasting the time of everyone with a cloak.

[Mendzia]

OH snap!
LFR is actually something more than come and get your free loot.
Amazing to hear that.
Sadly it will be nerfed very soon due all crybabies too bad to get even get their free 'legendary' cloack.

[Daedius]

I'm actually amazed they kept the cloak requirement in.

I can't tell if it's laziness, unwarranted optimism, or a sick satisfaction watching the ants cannibalize themselves that made that decision.

The amount of gross oversight by Blizzard in BfA is beyond astounding.

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OH snap!
LFR is actually something more than come and get your free loot.
Amazing to hear that.
Sadly it will be nerfed very soon due all crybabies too bad to get even get their free 'legendary' cloack.

Nothing about nerfing it because of difficulty. You'll always have half the raid with lazy morons, and this is reflected heavily when these clueless idiots get MC'd screwing everyone else over. It's removing the grievance for the competent half because of these idiots.

[Zarvel]

No... Just... no... Anthem was the highest anticipated pile of dog doo released in the last 10 years.

Please stop blaming Anthem on EA. I'm starting to take personal offense to that mindset now. We were not at fault for it's faulty foundations, BioWare were solely responsible for that. They chose their ego over extending the time table for release.
I know EA has had its missteps every now and then, and very public ones at that, but blaming anything remotely linked to them as their fault is tiring now.
I work on the Sims 4 team and our QA is brilliant, because our designers are brilliant, they don't disable the project to begin with, the way bioware did their game teams.

On topic though, this whole situation is hilarious. Blizzard's WoW QA team does deserve the criticism it's getting, along with the dev team making stupid decisions. The cloak should've been a requirement to queue from the moment wing 4 was live. It's not hard to gate parts of the game behind a pre-requisite questline. If I'm not wrong, they have done it before for some other LFR content. I could be wrong or mis-remembering though.

[Mendzia]

Nothing about nerfing it because of difficulty. You'll always have half the raid with lazy morons, and this is reflected heavily when these clueless idiots get MC'd screwing everyone else over. It's removing the grievance for the competent half because of these idiots.

That is the problem with current terribad players.
They are teached thorugh last few xpacks that they can be lazy and do not give a single fks about bosses on LFR so now they will be super mad about the 'difficulty'. They just play for free items.

[Vilendor]

I don't want to defend ultra casuals, but many people in this topic is missing a perspective. Let me explain it with an example:

I just started playing Final Fantasy Online. It's fun, but i don't take it seriously, it's just something to spend time while we wait for Shadowlands. I don't read guides, i don't read boss tactics, i don't read class rotations. If i get to the end of it and there is a "kill the big bad endboss" quest i would too expect to be able to kill him relatively easy in a story mode version, without reading a boss guide, farming cloak levels, learning fully my class and getting competitive gear.

PUT DOWN THE PITCHFORKS! What im trying to say is it's perfectly fine to expect all of those things, but there are a ton of people for whom this is just some dumb game to spend a few hours a week and when you can't finish the game it feels frustrating.

[Arakakao]

"It's repetitive and exhausting" coming from the guy that say he wants to REPEATEDLY do all the wings on MULTIPLE characters for appearances. Interesting.

Fighting bosses is more fun than quests.

[f4ncybear]

I don't want to defend ultra casuals, but many people in this topic is missing a perspective. Let me explain it with an example:

I just started playing Final Fantasy Online. It's fun, but i don't take it seriously, it's just something to spend time while we wait for Shadowlands. I don't read guides, i don't read boss tactics, i don't read class rotations. If i get to the end of it and there is a "kill the big bad endboss" quest i would too expect to be able to kill him relatively easy in a story mode version, without reading a boss guide, farming cloak levels, learning fully my class and getting competitive gear.

PUT DOWN THE PITCHFORKS! What im trying to say is it's perfectly fine to expect all of those things, but there are a ton of people for whom this is just some dumb game to spend a few hours a week and when you can't finish the game it feels frustrating.

Here's some perspective for you, you get the quest to kill Nzoth after you get the cloak.

[Drusin]

See this shit people? Do you ACTUALLY see that Blizzard can make the game easy as FUCK people still cannot complete it.

Here's the thing about "easy", no one fucking cares if it's easy or hard it's a matter of enjoyment. People don't enjoy the time needed to do the cloak chain so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ they're not gonna fucking do it.

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Because it's a core part of the fight and people who didn't bother should be unable to kill N'zoth.

Good thing this thread is about LFR then

People who want to do LFR can have fun with those Q times then lol.

[exochaft]

Right so they should cater to the 5% so the rest quit and the game shuts down? I mean then its the hardest boss of all, the login screen. Big galaxy brain moment there.

I can't remember who said it (maybe GC?), but they mentioned that people tend to not rise to the challenge in games. That being said, that's a monolithic way of viewing a diverse gaming community and not an empiric statement. It's just as true that if there is no challenge or adversity in a game, many people won't play it or get bored of it fairly quickly. Simply put, there's a middle ground to the argument. You don't have to kick people's faces in with stupidly difficult content, but there's a limit to how low one can set the bar.

That being said, the real issue in all of this is the gating of quests and the piss-poor flow of them all. I've leveled a fresh 120 character post-8.3, and even though I've been playing BfA the entire time and knowing there's a legendary quest line... it's insanely confusing what needs to be done in order to get it. I'm still not 100% certain of the most optimal path, but as of 8.3 I believe you need to the following:

1.) Complete the war campaign as far as unlocking your flightpaths/followers on the opposing faction's continent (may need to fully unlock WQs, hard to tell since it's account wide and I can skip the reps)
2.) Unlock Nazjatar
3.) Unlock Essences
4.) Then you get the summons to your faction capital to start the cloak questline, and this is where the Blizzard cloak guide begins.

Now, the huge problem is that not only are there tons of quests (many flagged as major storylines with the amber '!'), but also you don't need to finish any of the prerequisite gating questlines in their entirety on top of many of the flagged 'important' quests being optional. To a new or very casual player, it's so bloody confusing that it's no surprise that many people are confused and may not have their cloak. What's worse is that there is absolutely nothing in the game that clearly guides your progression path to get you to the end, you just have to keep completing quests and hope you end up where you want to be. The major flaw in logic in this entire system is that Blizz expects you to to view external resources in order to play the game, which is evident by Blizz releasing a guide on their website to get the legendary cloak that tells you to go to Wowhead.

Here's my question: why not make a questline or in-game guide for players that accomplishes the same thing? Instead of this mass of jumbled quests, replace them all with a singular questline every patch that'll guide you along what's optional and what isn't. Could also have an guide (maybe a bronze dragonflight NPC or something quirky like that) telling you what's optional and what isn't, what doing a questline will rewards if completed entirely, etc. If I'm tired of anything (other than the layers of RNG in the game), it's the reliance on players to need to use resources/knowledge not in the game to actually play the game effectively.

[MrLachyG]

Good thing this thread is about LFR then

good thing that the person I was replying to was wondering about mount drops off N'Zoth that vanish at the end of the expansion, for which heroic is the only one

[Drusin]

What's worse is that there is absolutely nothing in the game that clearly guides your progression path to get you to the end, you just have to keep completing quests and hope you end up where you want to be. The major flaw in logic in this entire system is that Blizz expects you to to view external resources in order to play the game, which is evident by Blizz releasing a guide on their website to get the legendary cloak that tells you to go to Wowhead.

Here's my question: why not make a questline or in-game guide for players that accomplishes the same thing? Instead of this mass of jumbled quests, replace them all with a singular questline every patch that'll guide you along what's optional and what isn't. Could also have an guide (maybe a bronze dragonflight NPC or something quirky like that) telling you what's optional and what isn't, what doing a questline will rewards if completed entirely, etc. If I'm tired of anything (other than the layers of RNG in the game), it's the reliance on players to need to use resources/knowledge not in the game to actually play the game effectively.

You know, that wouldn't be too difficult of an addon to make.

[Onikaroshi]

You know, that wouldn't be too difficult of an addon to make.

I mean, they do a decent job telling you what questline to do in patches with a big "START THIS QUEST" window when you first log in.