What is the long term plan, if any?

[Relapses]

Never said that.

Uh...

Classic is a good game. Retail is a really shockingly bad game.

Okay.

Wrong again. I said moving every single server to TBC at once, effectively deleting Classic, was "dumb as rocks".

Try not to tell me I'm wrong when what you quoted is pretty much exactly what I said. It looks weird my dude.

Wrong again. There are other possibilities besides progression servers that are not completely unrealistic: Completely separate BC and WoTLK servers, Classic+, etc.. The only thing that is stupid is the idea that they will move every server to TBC.

!RemindMe 1 year when this happens.* :^)

^{*note: This is sarcasm.}

The problem, as demonstrated here, is that every time I criticize a specific idea, you interpret it (bizarrely) as disagreeing with every word you said.

I seriously don't give a shit about you criticizing me. I do take offense to ad hominems because (imo) they're a fairly weak form of counter-argument but that's about it.

A progression server is one that moves through old patches, including servers that span multiple expansions.

This isn't as difficult as you are making it out to be.

And just to touch on this: The issue at hand is the inconsistency of your rhetoric. You disagreed with me because I have a slightly different opinion about the direction Blizzard will take Classic which devolved into accusations of you calling me "a liar" and multiple ad hominems. That's fine, I've moved on. But now you're trying to claim that you're far more open to ideas that you were seemingly offended by earlier by saying that your broad definition of "progression servers" includes several possibilities. I can accept that, too, but it does seem a bit contradictory.

[NineSpine]

Uh...



Okay.

Do you seriously not understand the difference between the following two statements:

“Classic is good and retail is bad”

“Classic is good and retail is bad therefore blizzard has to keep developing classic”

I never added the therefore. You just pretended I said that.

Try not to tell me I'm wrong when what you quoted is pretty much exactly what I said. It looks weird my dude.

Do you seriously not understand the difference between the following two statements:

“Turning every classic server into TBC is dumb as rocks”

“Everything except progression servers is dumb as rocks.”

You said that I said that latter, when all I said was the former.

RemindMe 1 year when this happens.* :^)

Blizzard did not create classic servers, ensure everyone they were here to stay as a museum, just to delete them next year. That’s dumb as rocks.

I seriously don't give a shit about you criticizing me. I do take offense to ad hominems because (imo) they're a fairly weak form of counter-argument but that's about it.

All you do is erect absurd straw men like you did above, so I don’t know what you really expect. You are so aggressively against civil discourse and only interested in this masturbatory posturing that to expect anything else is silly.

And just to touch on this: The issue at hand is the inconsistency of your rhetoric. You disagreed with me because I have a slightly different opinion about the direction Blizzard will take Classic which devolved into accusations of you calling me "a liar" and multiple ad hominems. That's fine, I've moved on. But now you're trying to claim that you're far more open to ideas that you were seemingly offended by earlier by saying that your broad definition of "progression servers" includes several possibilities. I can accept that, too, but it does seem a bit contradictory.

There’s nothing contradictory here. You just refuse to listen to me and instead do this insane shit where you take a statement like “retail is bad” and just add this “therefore blah blah blah” to the end of it that I never fucking said and act like I’m in the wrong.

If you would stop for two seconds and realize that you load up everyone else’s statements with all sorts of crap they never said, you wouldn’t be so confused.

[McNeil]

I've had some ideas on how to do post-Classic content, though it basically comes down to either go further to TBC or add new major patches into classic (classic+ basically) with the games philosophy and design in mind. I remember hearing Mark Kern liking the idea of a classic+ aswell, considering that there was a lot of cut content (he would know about far more cut content then we do) that never made it into the game, and when they were added in eventually they went with a more modern WoW philosophy.

Ideally I'd like to see them TRY OUT new major patches, and if people end up not liking it then just ditch the whole idea and move on to TBC. If its very succesful then they could eventually do both Classic+ and TBC seperately. The problem I keep encountering with progessive servers that move onto next expansions will divide the playerbase more then it already has, and there doesn't seem to be a clear stopping point unless everyone agrees that WotLK is where the classic era of WoW started.

What I would like to see in a Classic+ is mostly cut out content and maybe even something that has never been added in retail:

- Emerald Dream zone with a possible Emerald Nightmare dungeon/raid within (different than retail)
- Hyjal opened up as a high end zone with their original idea of having the player cleanse the Well of Eternity while demons and dragons are fighting each other
- Alongside Hyjal they could open up the Barrow Dens (Onyxia's entrance in the zone which was a placeholder) that could be a dungeon or raid
- The Dragon Isles as a zone or raid, opening up Northern Lordaeron aswell
- A heavily Scourge infested part of Quel'Thalas where the Horde ends up aiding the blood elves, which ties into them joining during TBC
- Early version of Gilneas opened up before the worgen invaded, allowing the Alliance to interact with Gilneans before they joined their faction
- The islands off the coast of Stranglethorn Vale that were removed early in WoW's alpha could serve some purpose

[Relapses]

Do you seriously not understand the difference between the following two statements:

“Classic is good and retail is bad”

“Classic is good and retail is bad therefore blizzard has to keep developing classic”

I never added the therefore. You just pretended I said that.

Hello? It's the literal topic of discussion for this thread.

Am I in the Twilight Zone? You're surely trolling but I don't think you are. Whatever. I'm out.

[NineSpine]

Hello? It's the literal topic of discussion for this thread.

Am I in the Twilight Zone? You're surely trolling but I don't think you are. Whatever. I'm out.

The literal topic of this thread is not “is retail so bad that blizzard needs to invest in classic”. I can’t tell if you are deranged or just dishonest.

[Heathy]

dividing the player base isn't a problem it'll divide itself when the majority of ppl have nothing left to farm. it either moves onto tbc or it slowly stagnates. anyone who wanted to progress through classic has had the chance to do that. the longer ppl wait, the less chance they'll have of securing a spot in a raiding guild.

once naxx has been cleared and farmed, there is nothing in the game that requires t3 gear. you don't need t3 to beat naxx and after naxx? nothing. so you get full t3 and simply stand around looking awesome until the end of time? no.

classic + I don't think will happen, mainly because, tier 3 was already overpowered and they aren't going to rebalance old gear. #nochanges killed the chance of a classic + they won't rebalance anything and they aren't going to create and balance more 40 man raids. its just extremely unlikely to happen. one of the reasons tbc had 25 man raids was because they were finding it nearly impossible to balance 40 mans and the various metas and class stacking problems you have with that many players. you can tell they had trouble with raid difficulty even with naxx, half of the encounters split the raid into separate groups to nerf the power of a consolidated geared blob of 40 ppl. the harder encounters like 4 horsemen is more like 4 x 10mans happening simultaneously rather than a single 40 man.

they aren't really even obliged to do tbc, they have only done classic because ppl whined enough. it doesn't mean that they will definitely do tbc. but dividing the player base isn't really a problem because over time it will simply diminish by itself, even the most die hard players are going to burn out when they've farmed t3 on their 3rd 4th 5th alt. at some point the desire to log in just won't be there when there is nothing left to conquer, I don't plan to farm naxx for years on end, ill probably stay for several kelthuzad kills but after a while i'm either moving to tbc or throwing in the towel. i'm not gunna pay a subscription to farm content for which I get gear, for which no content exists after it to use that gear in.

you don't need t3 for anything, there is no challenge past naxx, so once you have that gear, you've reached the end. it can't be entertaining indefinitely. but the game also can't exist in classic for eternity either because it doesn't have enough growth to maintain guild creation and progress. anyone who was eager to go through it, has done so already.

in terms of t3 being over powered, it is, at the moment there is some level of balance between dungeon BiS and t2, its still difficult to kill other players who have t2 if you only have dungeon blues, but its still somewhat possible. with t3 this is no longer possible the gap is huge, once a large portion of players are running around clad in t3, the alt game pvp is pretty much dead because you just won't stand a chance against anyone with that gear. which means pvp will take a nose dive. perhaps it won't be as bad as it was the first time, but I can pretty much guarantee that several months after naxx is out, the bgs will be unplayable if you aren't using aq40 gear you'll just be fodder for those who are..

then if they added several more tiers to the game it'll only compound the problem. anyone coming into the game will be going up against players who can one tap them. making pvp unplayable. even more so than it was when ppl were running around in full t3. the pvp is likely as balanced as it'll ever be right now, come aq40 and naxx, the difference in gear and stats is quite large insurmountable even. if ppl can't enjoy pvp or find a guild the game is pretty much doomed to an inevitable fate.

I think the game is enjoyable at the moment while there is still progression to be made but I can't see that being unending. it has a shelf life.

it'll either be, moving to a tbc server, one way transfer or you'll get to keep a copy of that character on the classic server, I think we'll see server merges perhaps some of them will upgrade to tbc and some won't. for the most part anyone raiding simply has to discuss this with their guild. if my guild wanted to stay in classic for X amount of months and then move to tbc, that would be fine with me, I would likely vote for us to move over eventually and not stay in classic forever. but I would be interested to see the results of such a discussion which may happen one day when the time comes.

[NineSpine]

dividing the player base isn't a problem it'll divide itself when the majority of ppl have nothing left to farm. it either moves onto tbc or it slowly stagnates. anyone who wanted to progress through classic has had the chance to do that. the longer ppl wait, the less chance they'll have of securing a spot in a raiding guild.

once naxx has been cleared and farmed, there is nothing in the game that requires t3 gear. you don't need t3 to beat naxx and after naxx? nothing. so you get full t3 and simply stand around looking awesome until the end of time? no.

classic + I don't think will happen, mainly because, tier 3 was already overpowered and they aren't going to rebalance old gear. #nochanges killed the chance of a classic + they won't rebalance anything and they aren't going to create and balance more 40 man raids. its just extremely unlikely to happen. one of the reasons tbc had 25 man raids was because they were finding it nearly impossible to balance 40 mans and the various metas and class stacking problems you have with that many players. you can tell they had trouble with raid difficulty even with naxx, half of the encounters split the raid into separate groups to nerf the power of a consolidated geared blob of 40 ppl. the harder encounters like 4 horsemen is more like 4 x 10mans happening simultaneously rather than a single 40 man.

they aren't really even obliged to do tbc, they have only done classic because ppl whined enough. it doesn't mean that they will definitely do tbc. but dividing the player base isn't really a problem because over time it will simply diminish by itself, even the most die hard players are going to burn out when they've farmed t3 on their 3rd 4th 5th alt. at some point the desire to log in just won't be there when there is nothing left to conquer, I don't plan to farm naxx for years on end, ill probably stay for several kelthuzad kills but after a while i'm either moving to tbc or throwing in the towel. i'm not gunna pay a subscription to farm content for which I get gear, for which no content exists after it to use that gear in.

you don't need t3 for anything, there is no challenge past naxx, so once you have that gear, you've reached the end. it can't be entertaining indefinitely. but the game also can't exist in classic for eternity either because it doesn't have enough growth to maintain guild creation and progress. anyone who was eager to go through it, has done so already.

in terms of t3 being over powered, it is, at the moment there is some level of balance between dungeon BiS and t2, its still difficult to kill other players who have t2 if you only have dungeon blues, but its still somewhat possible. with t3 this is no longer possible the gap is huge, once a large portion of players are running around clad in t3, the alt game pvp is pretty much dead because you just won't stand a chance against anyone with that gear. which means pvp will take a nose dive. perhaps it won't be as bad as it was the first time, but I can pretty much guarantee that several months after naxx is out, the bgs will be unplayable if you aren't using aq40 gear you'll just be fodder for those who are..

then if they added several more tiers to the game it'll only compound the problem. anyone coming into the game will be going up against players who can one tap them. making pvp unplayable. even more so than it was when ppl were running around in full t3. the pvp is likely as balanced as it'll ever be right now, come aq40 and naxx, the difference in gear and stats is quite large insurmountable even. if ppl can't enjoy pvp or find a guild the game is pretty much doomed to an inevitable fate.

I think the game is enjoyable at the moment while there is still progression to be made but I can't see that being unending. it has a shelf life.

it'll either be, moving to a tbc server, one way transfer or you'll get to keep a copy of that character on the classic server, I think we'll see server merges perhaps some of them will upgrade to tbc and some won't. for the most part anyone raiding simply has to discuss this with their guild. if my guild wanted to stay in classic for X amount of months and then move to tbc, that would be fine with me, I would likely vote for us to move over eventually and not stay in classic forever. but I would be interested to see the results of such a discussion which may happen one day when the time comes.

You are underestimating how many people are happy to play through the old content multiple times. Private servers had a total player base over 100,000, and people would constantly start on new servers once they were done with everything.

Blizzard didn’t make classic to satiate whining. That’s not how large corporations decide to invest money. They did it because they knew it would make them money, and it did and continues to. The player base is still very large.

If they adopt a model where servers progress through patches and expansions, plenty of people will be happy to play through classic-wotlk over the course of 2 years and then start over on fresh servers.

[Heathy]

the game just isn't going to consistently provide the guilds for that to happen. some ppl might be happy picking herbs and farming mobs eventually those who wanted something from this are either going to get it and move on, or they won't get what they were after, but will still move on.

assuming everyone who is playing now is going to keep making fresh alts and replay through the content, I personally don't play alts at all. i have 1 alt thats not 60. and no real desire to get it to 60, i'm happy to go through the game, gear up my one character and then move onto the next thing or, reach the end, quit playing and just enjoy that fact that I went through it from start to finish.

I don't expect my guild mates to stick around farming naxx and making alts for years after we've cleared it. and i hope they don't expect me to do that either because they'll be disappointed. there is no way i've signed up to an eternity of grinding naxx. illl go through the game, get what I can from it, enjoy the encounters, then move on or quit paying the subscription.

i cannot see the game maintaining the same influx of new players that it had at the beginning. again those who wanted this, got it. are playing it and will ultimately get what they want from it. it doesn't have endless content or endless growth. the point at which your guild can't fill a 40 man, and there are no decent recruits left on the server is the point at which its over. the point at which the lemon has had the last drop of juice squeezed out of it.

going through this once was enough for me, there is no way i'd sign up to do this again. once we've cleared it thats it for me, if my guild isn't moving to tbc, they'll have to find a new tank.

I personally don't give a fuck about progression servers, I game a lot but I also have no desire to create multiple mmo characters that go nowhere. that reach some arbitrary point and are left to gather dust on some dead server.

we're still not at the end yet, it could still reach a point that ppl leaving impacts the ability to fill raids, getting a full raid becomes difficult to achieve, this can easily snowball. I don't really like the prospect of ending up gearing ppl up constantly who get some gear then leave the guild, this happening too much could see me quitting before reaching the end. if this happens to be some loop we get stuck in. ill drop the game like a shitty diaper.

hell its already happened to some degree, we had several ppl get quite a lot of gear then burn out and quit. players who CAME FROM private servers. our raid leader who was playing on private got geared up and quit. luckily someone else stepped up. this was a person who seemed way more invested than I was or still am. just by the amount of effort he put into leading raids and the enthusiasm he had when we started molten core. once we killed nef, he left.

i'm sure there is some reality where everyone playing classic now likes it so much that they can't wait to do this shit from scratch again and again and again, i don't think that reality is this one though. I'm sure in my guild there are several ppl who would happily go through this again, although, it would only be several ppl, then on the second round, some of those several may not want a 3rd round. each time you're going to end up with a smaller portion of players who actually have the will power to keep repeating the content. you might have 10-20 ppl willing to do it a second time, but of those 10-20 ppl only 5 may want to do it a 3rd time, and then 2 or 1 the 4th time etc etc. i find it highly unlikely that you'll find a guild willing to play this game forever endlessly repeating the content. its just going to be smaller and smaller subsets of players that continue repeating it. i don't think everyone is fully ready to jump back in fresh once this has reached its climax.

I don't think i'm underestimating anything, the game has a life span, its that simple. once it reaches the saturation point. its game over. at some point the pvp will pretty much be dead, or just an unbalanced boring shit show, no new guilds will be getting created and the economy will go down the toilet as everyone who is still playing is completely self sufficient. the only thing thats left is to pug naxx and randomly gear up the hapless nubs that were too socially inept to join a guild. at that point all of the prestige is gone.

[NineSpine]

the game just isn't going to consistently provide the guilds for that to happen. some ppl might be happy picking herbs and farming mobs eventually those who wanted something from this are either going to get it and move on, or they won't get what they were after, but will still move on.

assuming everyone who is playing now is going to keep making fresh alts and replay through the content, I personally don't play alts at all. i have 1 alt thats not 60. and no real desire to get it to 60, i'm happy to go through the game, gear up my one character and then move onto the next thing or, reach the end, quit playing and just enjoy that fact that I went through it from start to finish.

I don't expect my guild mates to stick around farming naxx and making alts for years after we've cleared it. and i hope they don't expect me to do that either because they'll be disappointed. there is no way i've signed up to an eternity of grinding naxx. illl go through the game, get what I can from it, enjoy the encounters, then move on or quit paying the subscription.

i cannot see the game maintaining the same influx of new players that it had at the beginning. again those who wanted this, got it. are playing it and will ultimately get what they want from it. it doesn't have endless content or endless growth. the point at which your guild can't fill a 40 man, and there are no decent recruits left on the server is the point at which its over. the point at which the lemon has had the last drop of juice squeezed out of it.

going through this once was enough for me, there is no way i'd sign up to do this again. once we've cleared it thats it for me, if my guild isn't moving to tbc, they'll have to find a new tank.

I personally don't give a fuck about progression servers, I game a lot but I also have no desire to create multiple mmo characters that go nowhere. that reach some arbitrary point and are left to gather dust on some dead server.

we're still not at the end yet, it could still reach a point that ppl leaving impacts the ability to fill raids, getting a full raid becomes difficult to achieve, this can easily snowball. I don't really like the prospect of ending up gearing ppl up constantly who get some gear then leave the guild, this happening too much could see me quitting before reaching the end. if this happens to be some loop we get stuck in. ill drop the game like a shitty diaper.

hell its already happened to some degree, we had several ppl get quite a lot of gear then burn out and quit. players who CAME FROM private servers. our raid leader who was playing on private got geared up and quit. luckily someone else stepped up. this was a person who seemed way more invested than I was or still am. just by the amount of effort he put into leading raids and the enthusiasm he had when we started molten core. once we killed nef, he left.

i'm sure there is some reality where everyone playing classic now likes it so much that they can't wait to do this shit from scratch again and again and again, i don't think that reality is this one though. I'm sure in my guild there are several ppl who would happily go through this again, although, it would only be several ppl, then on the second round, some of those several may not want a 3rd round. each time you're going to end up with a smaller portion of players who actually have the will power to keep repeating the content. you might have 10-20 ppl willing to do it a second time, but of those 10-20 ppl only 5 may want to do it a 3rd time, and then 2 or 1 the 4th time etc etc. i find it highly unlikely that you'll find a guild willing to play this game forever endlessly repeating the content. its just going to be smaller and smaller subsets of players that continue repeating it. i don't think everyone is fully ready to jump back in fresh once this has reached its climax.

I don't think i'm underestimating anything, the game has a life span, its that simple. once it reaches the saturation point. its game over. at some point the pvp will pretty much be dead, or just an unbalanced boring shit show, no new guilds will be getting created and the economy will go down the toilet as everyone who is still playing is completely self sufficient. the only thing thats left is to pug naxx and randomly gear up the hapless nubs that were too socially inept to join a guild. at that point all of the prestige is gone.

"I personally don't give a fuck about progression servers, I game a lot but I also have no desire to create multiple mmo characters that go nowhere. that reach some arbitrary point and are left to gather dust on some dead server."

You just described what is going to happen to every MMO character you create. They are all destined to someday gather dust on some dead server. You get that right? You know that these MMOs aren't forever right?

Numerous MMOs with significantly smaller populations than Classic WoW somehow continue to operate, even pump out expansions, etc.. Some of them are even older than WoW. Numerous MMOs have progression servers that stay in operation. Numerous private WoW servers managed to operate for a decade and have plenty of players.

You have to stop assuming that because something isn't for you it isn't for anyone.

[Heathy]

and because it isn't for me it also doesn't mean that it is for everyone, you seem to think that just because there are ppl playing it now, that it will maintain this level of commitment unwavering. i've already said that i've seen players who were playing on private quit the game. not just move guild, burn out completely.

the smaller mmos still operate because they keep making expansions, classic I don't think can survive in a vacuum of zero content past t3. an mmo is only fun to progress through if you can maintain the majority of your guild, once the core of that guild gets bored and stops playing. you either are not bothered by it, or it just ultimately loses the enjoyment it once had. progressing from start to finish, in the same guild with roughly the same ppl every week is largely the fun, but once those players stop playing. it becomes easier to stop playing. I'm sure a server could survive with just ppl picking herbs and not a single person raiding but i mean, if it keeps the server going great. it probably wouldn't be that fun to play on if you did want to raid. its unlikely to grow at all. i know there are players with varying tastes, but either the game moves on or it stagnates, I don't see them wiping anyones progress, because they never have done that. they would be more likely to open fresh servers, I bet they'd need less fresh servers to meet demand each time they release new ones.

I don't think everyone is going to stay subbed and play classic at 60 indefinitely I think the retention rate is pretty much steadily going to decrease over time once t3 is out. I don't see many guilds surviving losing their tanks or key players, raid leaders, officers etc, some guild may bounce back but trying to reform a guild that has given up on farming t3 is something not many would have the patience for.

[NineSpine]

and because it isn't for me it also doesn't mean that it is for everyone, you seem to think that just because there are ppl playing it now, that it will maintain this level of commitment unwavering. i've already said that i've seen players who were playing on private quit the game. not just move guild, burn out completely.

'I know we have ten years of data, but my anecdote says otherwise" is not a compelling argument.

the smaller mmos still operate because they keep making expansions, classic I don't think can survive in a vacuum of zero content past t3. an mmo is only fun to progress through if you can maintain the majority of your guild, once the core of that guild gets bored and stops playing. you either are not bothered by it, or it just ultimately loses the enjoyment it once had. progressing from start to finish, in the same guild with roughly the same ppl every week is largely the fun, but once those players stop playing. it becomes easier to stop playing. I'm sure a server could survive with just ppl picking herbs and not a single person raiding but i mean, if it keeps the server going great. it probably wouldn't be that fun to play on if you did want to raid. its unlikely to grow at all. i know there are players with varying tastes, but either the game moves on or it stagnates, I don't see them wiping anyones progress, because they never have done that. they would be more likely to open fresh servers, I bet they'd need less fresh servers to meet demand each time they release new ones.

I don't think everyone is going to stay subbed and play classic at 60 indefinitely I think the retention rate is pretty much steadily going to decrease over time once t3 is out.

I think the game will certainly decrease in popularity if it's just sitting around at level 60, but that isn't what's going to happen. This is clearly a part of the business model now, and the fact is that we can see that server populations are still pretty good for classic (to the extent we can see that information). They will launch fresh classic servers, and some new people who missed the launch of classic and later regretted it will come for that, and a lot of players happy for a fresh start will hop on for that too.

There will be TBC. There will be WoTLK, and I would put all the money in the world on that you will see rolling progression servers working their way through that content over the course of a couple of years, just like the other older MMOs do.

[Liftinmammals]

Uh...



Okay.



Try not to tell me I'm wrong when what you quoted is pretty much exactly what I said. It looks weird my dude.



!RemindMe 1 year when this happens.* :^)

^{*note: This is sarcasm.}


I seriously don't give a shit about you criticizing me. I do take offense to ad hominems because (imo) they're a fairly weak form of counter-argument but that's about it.



And just to touch on this: The issue at hand is the inconsistency of your rhetoric. You disagreed with me because I have a slightly different opinion about the direction Blizzard will take Classic which devolved into accusations of you calling me "a liar" and multiple ad hominems. That's fine, I've moved on. But now you're trying to claim that you're far more open to ideas that you were seemingly offended by earlier by saying that your broad definition of "progression servers" includes several possibilities. I can accept that, too, but it does seem a bit contradictory.

Y'all both look like a pair of 12 year old girls crying and moaning about some stupid ish. Get over it, be men, and move on. Y'all are something else.

[Heathy]

10 years of data what? you mean ppl found a way to pirate the game and play it for free. and that doesn't affect the statistics at all. i'm going to go out on a limb and say that, more ppl are playing on legit servers than those who were playing on private, a large portion of players playing classic also play the modern game, even if only casually. what i'm saying is that single servers have a life span and saturation point. for which either new content happens or it trails off. not that the entire community will abandon the game en-masse, I think you're trying to pick arguments for the sake of it. or I could have been more clearer perhaps.

I know they wanted to keep the classic servers around so that this version of the game exists for anyone who does want to play it, I can't say for sure that if you randomly joined a server 3-4 years from now you'll easily get into a guild and get to experience the game, I think the try-harding would have reached critical mass at that point, the point is, I don't think they will just release tbc because of the idea of these being museum servers. perhaps it'll be a character copy deal rather than having it upgrade to tbc as not everyone on that server may want to move on. but at the same time, i can see it moving on simply so that it does avoid saturation. all i was saying really is from my point of view, either a server or the guilds on that server have the option to move into tbc (somehow), or it slowly decays.

[arkanon]

and the fact is that we can see that server populations are still pretty good for classic (to the extent we can see that information).

Prove it.

Yet again you caught in an embarrassing act of hypocricy.

[Kralljin]

one of the reasons tbc had 25 man raids was because they were finding it nearly impossible to balance 40 mans and the various metas and class stacking problems you have with that many players.

You don't solve class stacking issues by reducing the size.
The primary reason to move away from 40man raids was the organization, finding 40 people that roughly the same commitment to the game, have time at the same hours multiple times a week was one massive pain.

Not to mention that basically any guild was perma recruiting people just to cover potential quitters or people not showing up, which then had to geared by the guild itself because catchup gear from ZG / AQ20 wasn't that good anymore if you wanted to progress Naxx.

they have only done classic because ppl whined enough.

If you think Blizzard put a separate team on a project "because some people whined enough", then you have no idea how modern Blizzard operates.
They don't put thousands of dollars into a project unless they get some revenue out of it, which they absolutely did considering the last two earning calls have mentioned Classic in a very positive light.

I think the game is enjoyable at the moment while there is still progression to be made but I can't see that being unending. it has a shelf life.

And where's the problem here?
Like, the game doesn't have to be enjoyed until hell freezes over, that's fine, Blizzard made a lot of money with the classic relaunch.
Some people think that Classic, in order to justify its existance, it needs to have Millions of players for years on end, when it reality, it absolutely doesn't.

Blizzard made most of its profit from the project with its re release, beyond that, the costs are quite minimal because they don't need to build new content.

Treat it like some finite RPG with an end, you bought it, played with it for some time, had your fun while doing it.
Developer made its revenue, you had your fun, and that's totally fine.

they aren't really even obliged to do tbc

The only reason why TBC wouldn't happen at this point is that they hit on a major obstacle during early development that causes the cost of the project to explode or raise the maintenance costs far beyond its value.
If anything, they will re release TBC just to get a surge of subs back for a few months, which is absolutely profitable for Blizzard.

But Blizzard has said that most of the legwork is already done with Classic in regards to TBC and has job opening for two Software engineers for their Classic team...while Classic itself is pretty much finished.

Unless they really hit on a major problem, TBC isn't much of a question of "if" but rather "when".

[NineSpine]

10 years of data what? you mean ppl found a way to pirate the game and play it for free. and that doesn't affect the statistics at all. i'm going to go out on a limb and say that, more ppl are playing on legit servers than those who were playing on private, a large portion of players playing classic also play the modern game, even if only casually. what i'm saying is that single servers have a life span and saturation point. for which either new content happens or it trails off. not that the entire community will abandon the game en-masse, I think you're trying to pick arguments for the sake of it. or I could have been more clearer perhaps.

I know they wanted to keep the classic servers around so that this version of the game exists for anyone who does want to play it, I can't say for sure that if you randomly joined a server 3-4 years from now you'll easily get into a guild and get to experience the game, I think the try-harding would have reached critical mass at that point, the point is, I don't think they will just release tbc because of the idea of these being museum servers. perhaps it'll be a character copy deal rather than having it upgrade to tbc as not everyone on that server may want to move on. but at the same time, i can see it moving on simply so that it does avoid saturation. all i was saying really is from my point of view, either a server or the guilds on that server have the option to move into tbc (somehow), or it slowly decays.

I think people are taking the idea of "museum" far too literally. By museum, they obviously mean they will keep it around and not make significant changes. However, they have also doubled down on rolling content out piece by piece. Going through patches is part and parcel of the experience of what Classic or any expansion is. Museum does not mean "static".

- - - Updated - - -

Prove it.

Yet again you caught in an embarrassing act of hypocricy.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ga...tus/classic-us

3 Full
13 High
21 Medium
4 Low

Every other region looks even better: zero low pop servers.

Is this how you talk to people in real life? Just an endless string of insults and gotchyas even when they are nonsensical?

[Heathy]

yes but the question ofc is whether or not the servers we are playing on right now will just upgrade to tbc, or that you'll have to copy your character to a tbc enabled server. that is ultimately the question, will they just release tbc on the current servers ( considering some ppl like has been pointed out already multiple times will play classic over and over until they are blue in the face these players may not want tbc ) or will it be, character copies, then ofc the question is, do you retain a classic copy or not.

[NineSpine]

yes but the question ofc is whether or not the servers we are playing on right now will just upgrade to tbc, or that you'll have to copy your character to a tbc enabled server. that is ultimately the question, will they just release tbc on the current servers ( considering some ppl like has been pointed out already multiple times will play classic over and over until they are blue in the face these players may not want tbc ) or will it be, character copies, then ofc the question is, do you retain a classic copy or not.

I think it will work like D3. You make a character on a progression server and when the patches are done you can either transfer to a fresh server for the next expansion or a static server thats stuck at the end of the last expansion.

[Kralljin]

yes but the question ofc is whether or not the servers we are playing on right now will just upgrade to tbc, or that you'll have to copy your character to a tbc enabled server. that is ultimately the question, will they just release tbc on the current servers ( considering some ppl like has been pointed out already multiple times will play classic over and over until they are blue in the face these players may not want tbc ) or will it be, character copies, then ofc the question is, do you retain a classic copy or not.

Why would they force every Classic servers to become a TBC one?

Like, why would Blizzard want to drive the few die hard classic fans back to the private Server scene?
If some people want to play Classic that hard and pay their sub, let them, there is no issue down the line because Classic servers are running on the modern server infastructure.

That was the problem why Classic didn't happen in the first place, because they would have to maintain two MMO's at the same time, since they found a solution to that problem: Boom, Classic was announced.

[NineSpine]

Why would they force every Classic servers to become a TBC one?

Like, why would Blizzard want to drive the few die hard classic fans back to the private Server scene?
If some people want to play Classic that hard and pay their sub, let them, there is no issue down the line because Classic servers are running on the modern server infastructure.

That was the problem why Classic didn't happen in the first place, because they would have to maintain two MMO's at the same time, since they found a solution to that problem: Boom, Classic was announced.

I think that this is an important fact that is being overlooked by a lot of people. Classic has been retrofitted for the modern engine, not the other way around.