Versus: Broxigar Red vs. Grommash Hellscream

[Aucald]

I think that AU and MU 1: 1 before drinking demonic blood, only MU Golka died later than AU Golka. After drinking, these are two different characters.

I'd argue they're not, but since we're still comparing MU Grom's bout with Mannaroth (that happened post-Felblood) and AU Grom's bout with Mannoroth (a Grom that never drank the Felblood) they'd still not be 1:1.

[kaelix1]

At the level both are it's impossible to reach a proper conclusion in a fair way, both were above great warrior in WoW universe, tho I do fell people heavily underplay Broxigar here, yes the axe he used was empowered but let's not forget that he force Sargeras to personally came and deal with him, the guy was fighting a legion of demons and WON, in my opinion, that feat alone of forcing Sargeras to come and deal with you personally make him the winner against Grammash

[Erous]

The paint style
LoreStats "Grom-Brox"

I dunno...does the War of the Ancients hold far more weight than Warlords of Draenor? I think so.

[funcik]

This is the wierdest mix of AU Grom and OU Grom I've ever seen.... You are basically mashing up two different characters to prove your point - that's not how it works. Besides half of your erm "facts" are just plain wrong.


EDIT: Jesus Christ why - oh why - has this thread been going on for over two years? Christ almighty!

Am I wrong that Grommash defeated Vindicator Nobundo, Mannoroth, Cenarius, warchief Hurkan Skullsplinter? Am I inventing this from the air?
You think I missed the killing of the demon mountains? Okay, + 1 to Broxigar.
I did not add a hold on the Hyjal pass? Okay, + 1 to Broxigar.
I haven’t added an equal fight against Varo'then (Although Broxigar almost lost him)? Okay, let this be a +1 to Broxigar present.
Total. 11-8 (5 + 3).
If I remove AU Grom from the table anyway 10-9

[Daronokk]

This is the wierdest mix of AU Grom and OU Grom I've ever seen.... You are basically mashing up two different characters to prove your point

They are the same character, just with a different path in life. They have the same powers, tactics, mindset, etc. Combining them in this example is justified.

[Tensho14]

Hard to look at Grom's track record and imagine that he couldn't have accomplished the same, or more, if he was put in the same scenario as Broxigar. He butchered his way across two worlds, killed a demigod and then killed the guy who empowered him. Broxigar was just a mopey Orc until he was gifted a godly axe where then he fulfilled his destiny of being another overpowered Knaak character for a while. Point to Grom.

[Beerbill Society]

Tough one, Bloodcraze Red Grommash or Broxigar Ultimate Axe version, it would draw.

Thats some 'unstoppable force vs immovable object' kinda of deal, you can name all advantages you can think of but at the end of the day, both of them were the apex of orcish warriors, you cant be more alpha than those guys, especially with the criteria of their ultimate forms.

Both of them died wielding this power against stupidly strong foes, so i guess they both would die in this battle.

[Stormspellz]

Grom hands down in straight up fight

[Eazy]

Grommash defeated Nobundo, Broxigar did not defeat any of the Vindicators. If you can add some other point where Brox (Yes) and Grommash (No), I'm waiting. I did not try to judge in favor of Grommash, I just brought facts from books and stories.

Broxigar had awesome brother. Grommash didn't.

^That's how strong your arguments are. Most of them are pointless.

Broxigar wounded Sargeras. That's an achievement only a few did.

[funcik]

Broxigar had awesome brother. Grommash didn't.

^That's how strong your arguments are. Most of them are pointless.

Broxigar wounded Sargeras. That's an achievement only a few did.

In the "Legion" there is a chain of quest-memories of Illidan about the War of the Ancients.
In them we meet with Broxigar. The orc tells us (the heroes) that a strong demon (Mulvingeroth) is about to arrive. We kill Malvingeroth with Illidan Stormrage, Jarod Shadowsong, and Broxigar the Red. Grommash killed the commander of the pit lords alone.
Broxigar with the Cenarius ax could not defeat simple pit lord without our help and the help of Illidan and Jarod. Grommash defeated the commander of all pit lords, by oneself.

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Broxigar had awesome brother. Grommash didn't.

^That's how strong your arguments are. Most of them are pointless.

Broxigar wounded Sargeras. That's an achievement only a few did.

A titan's wound cannot be considered a godlike achievement given that Broxigar could not defeat Varo'then and one of the pit lords alone, which are inferior in power to both Cenarius and Mannoroth who were victims of Grommash.

[sam86]

The developers themselves said that the backstory of both the AU and MU warchiefs (with the exception of the earlier death of Grommash's wife). All MU warchiefs became legends as the AU warchiefs in "Lords of war"

and the except of half of horde clans not even there, and the except that they look and act different than mu with even different personality, and with the except that the orcs themselves who were described in rise of horde as shamanatic peaceful yet fierce warrior tribes decided to go hitler mode one with words from an alien and with the except fail to even conquer their own world, and with the except that unlike MU, in AU they sucked at fighting draenei
Blizz did say that, but they also gave the backdoor of say that there are exceptions to explain the contradictions, which are the majority of plot lines of the horde themselves
WoD holds the crown of shittiest lore in entire warcraft history for a solid reason, their lore doesn't make sense in anyway in anything, Kilrogg was described as honorable in MU and to his last breath served the horde, in AU he willingly serves the demons, something no orc would do ever (remember KJ had to use a long trick of fake ancestor images etc in MU, in AU he just came give blood with zero preparation)
Seriously using WoD lore will backfire in face of anyone who tries, i can use it to prove my point and so can u because WOD lore is just pure shit with contradictions everywhere
As for chronicles i'll use the line that it was from 'titans pov', and titans were dead so how the f8ck they know who was running for warchief? (i'm more of spitting on blizz face than anything else, because that line still piss me off, i pre-ordered vol 1 because it was definite edition of lore, not from f8cking dead creatures pov)
-Running for warchief in old horde prove that u are idiot more than u are good, since Gul'dan wanted the biggest idiot to rule the horde nothing else as his puppet
-Killing Mannaroth isn't an achievement anymore (u can check my posts since ages about it) since that guy exist only to be axed by any orc
-Grom in MU killed Cenarious after drinking demonic blood twice, not something to be compared to a guy who solo the burning legion, in their own world, until Sargeras himself had to step to stop him, and even if u want to add AU shit it still won't hold to solo fight the burning legion until Sargeras steps in, something literally no one even remotely close to do anywhere

Can u name anyone beside Broxigar who stood alone fighting demons non stop until Archimonde or KJ killed him, or axe-punching bag Mannaroth? U consider the most elite demons who are on their capital 'some fel guards'?

And it seems u think if Brox is better than Grom is bad, no MU before his shitcon was badass, a lean mean fighting machine, this AU crap who took too many steroids is an insult to Grom legacy, he may even hold his own against demon army like Brox, alas he never was in same position to compare

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A titan's wound cannot be considered a godlike achievement given that Broxigar could not defeat Varo'then and one of the pit lords alone, which are inferior in power to both Cenarius and Mannoroth who were victims of Grommash.

and the first was after fresh drinking blood again and be a fel orc and had an entire army with him and 2nd is an axe punching bag, with how blizz presented Mannoroth killing a fel hunter seems harder, he even get rezzed as skeleton to be killed again
Mannoroth exist to be killed, can u tell me what is Mannoroth achievement exactly to consider him a threat beside killing a gazelle in wc3 (the only thing we see him actually kill without getting axed)?

[funcik]

and the except of half of horde clans not even there, and the except that they look and act different than mu with even different personality, and with the except that the orcs themselves who were described in rise of horde as shamanatic peaceful yet fierce warrior tribes decided to go hitler mode one with words from an alien and with the except fail to even conquer their own world, and with the except that unlike MU, in AU they sucked at fighting draenei
Blizz did say that, but they also gave the backdoor of say that there are exceptions to explain the contradictions, which are the majority of plot lines of the horde themselves
WoD holds the crown of shittiest lore in entire warcraft history for a solid reason, their lore doesn't make sense in anyway in anything, Kilrogg was described as honorable in MU and to his last breath served the horde, in AU he willingly serves the demons, something no orc would do ever (remember KJ had to use a long trick of fake ancestor images etc in MU, in AU he just came give blood with zero preparation)
Seriously using WoD lore will backfire in face of anyone who tries, i can use it to prove my point and so can u because WOD lore is just pure shit with contradictions everywhere
As for chronicles i'll use the line that it was from 'titans pov', and titans were dead so how the f8ck they know who was running for warchief? (i'm more of spitting on blizz face than anything else, because that line still piss me off, i pre-ordered vol 1 because it was definite edition of lore, not from f8cking dead creatures pov)
-Running for warchief in old horde prove that u are idiot more than u are good, since Gul'dan wanted the biggest idiot to rule the horde nothing else as his puppet

You not like the plot of Warcraft? But you still have to reckon with this.This is the history of this universe, I also don’t like some things in this universe. But they are not retarded and are facts of this universe, and fact is a fact, Like it or not..

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-Killing Mannaroth isn't an achievement anymore (u can check my posts since ages about it) since that guy exist only to be axed by any orc

Killing Mannoroth is nothing? Wow, probably in vain the orcs set up a monument in that Canyon, and the Grommash Hold . Vain in "Chtonicles v.2" it was written about Mannoroth "... one of the Legion's greatest generals ...".

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-Grom in MU killed Cenarious after drinking demonic blood twice, not something to be compared to a guy who solo the burning legion, in their own world, until Sargeras himself had to step to stop him, and even if u want to add AU shit it still won't hold to solo fight the burning legion until Sargeras steps in, something literally no one even remotely close to do anywhere

What is the difference in what condition he killed him? He killed him like a warrior, not like a magician. In "Chronicles v.3" it was written that even a wild god could not handle the power of this orc.
if you think that it’s unfair to a creature capable of creating an ax that damages a titan whose magic is able to withstand Racnaros (Cataclysm). It again says that you simply do not want to reckon with the fact that in the condition of “double blood” Grommash is a real killer Wild Gods.

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Can u name anyone beside Broxigar who stood alone fighting demons non stop until Archimonde or KJ killed him, or axe-punching bag Mannaroth? U consider the most elite demons who are on their capital 'some fel guards'?

And it seems u think if Brox is better than Grom is bad, no MU before his shitcon was badass, a lean mean fighting machine, this AU crap who took too many steroids is an insult to Grom legacy, he may even hold his own against demon army like Brox, alas he never was in same position to compare

"Hold my beer" - says alternative Grommash to Broxigar. In the (WoD) raid against Archimonde, just did meet the demons at the portal arriving from there, and crushed everyone.

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And it seems u think if Brox is better than Grom is bad, no MU before his shitcon was badass, a lean mean fighting machine, this AU crap who took too many steroids is an insult to Grom legacy, he may even hold his own against demon army like Brox, alas he never was in same position to compare

You get away from comparing combat strength,started by saying which Grom AU is bad compared to the Grom MU. Although we are only talking about fighting skills and instincts, mentality, thinking, the individuality of which is that both AU and MU Groms are the same. The difference of power of AU/MU Grom's itself before and after drinking the blood of demons, everything else in the context of the battle with the arms of both Grommash's is the same.

[Eazy]

In the "Legion" there is a chain of quest-memories of Illidan about the War of the Ancients.
In them we meet with Broxigar. The orc tells us (the heroes) that a strong demon (Mulvingeroth) is about to arrive. We kill Malvingeroth with Illidan Stormrage, Jarod Shadowsong, and Broxigar the Red. Grommash killed the commander of the pit lords alone.
Broxigar with the Cenarius ax could not defeat simple pit lord without our help and the help of Illidan and Jarod. Grommash defeated the commander of all pit lords, by oneself.

A titan's wound cannot be considered a godlike achievement given that Broxigar could not defeat Varo'then and one of the pit lords alone, which are inferior in power to both Cenarius and Mannoroth who were victims of Grommash.

Are you saying that killing a vindicator is greated achievement that wounding Sargeras himselft?

lmao

[funcik]

and the first was after fresh drinking blood again and be a fel orc and had an entire army with him and 2nd is an axe punching bag, with how blizz presented Mannoroth killing a fel hunter seems harder, he even get rezzed as skeleton to be killed again
Mannoroth exist to be killed, can u tell me what is Mannoroth achievement exactly to consider him a threat beside killing a gazelle in wc3 (the only thing we see him actually kill without getting axed)?

I think Grom is stronger because I'm based on facts from books and how the characters living in the Horde venerate him. Several places in Azeroth are named after Grom, and several things as well. Gul'dan feared him and left him on Draenor by deceit, Blackhand want was the first to drink blood, but Grommash brazenly stepped in front of the leader of the Horde.
And only after the last one who drank from the Warsong drank, the turn went to the leader of the Horde and his clan in which Broxigar was not even considered Blackhand's assistant. The leader of the Blackrock clan simply could not subordinate Grommash, not to mention the fact that this could be done by someone of a lower status in the Blackrock clan. In Cinematics 6.2, Gul'dan told Grommash that if he drank he would become the "Greatest Champion".

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Are you saying that killing a vindicator is greated achievement that wounding Sargeras himselft?

lmao

Broxigar doesn't even have it.

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Are you saying that killing a vindicator is greated achievement that wounding Sargeras himselft?

lmao

Well, tell me at least one powerful characters name whom Broxigar defeated.

[qwerty123456]

It's strange that we take away feats of people in real life when they juice but everyone wants to give a pass to Grom. Dude hasn't done shit without the help of other orcs, demon blood, demon blood + the magic of a magical fountain, or an axe infused with a bunch of gronn power. When has he ever done something solo or without a power boost?? Atleast Broxigar's mountain of dead wasn't with the help of other orcs.

Just because Grom kill stole from thrall and other orcs doesn't make him powerful.

[funcik]

It's strange that we take away feats of people in real life when they juice but everyone wants to give a pass to Grom. Dude hasn't done shit without the help of other orcs, demon blood, demon blood + the magic of a magical fountain, or an axe infused with a bunch of gronn power. When has he ever done something solo or without a power boost?? Atleast Broxigar's mountain of dead wasn't with the help of other orcs.

Just because Grom kill stole from thrall and other orcs doesn't make him powerful.

WoD Grommash (without fell) also killed the attacking demons from the portal during a raid against Archimonde.

[qwerty123456]

WoD Grommash (without fell) also killed the attacking demons from the portal during a raid against Archimonde.

A mountain of them? I think not.

[funcik]

A mountain of them? I think not.

It was during the raid, the demon models disappeared a couple of seconds after they were killed. The bottom line is that Grom did not miss a not one demon, being mag'har with a heavy ax. And we (heroes) did not help him.

[qwerty123456]

It was during the raid, the demon models disappeared a couple of seconds after they were killed. The bottom line is that Grom did not miss a not one demon, being mag'har with a heavy ax. And we (heroes) did not help him.

Models disappearing doest mean there would have been a mountain if they hadn't. Besides Brixigar was solo on Argus. Grom was with us, Khadgar, and Yrel. He then claimed our kill and claimed Dreanor was free after he was the one who fucked it up so bad. He then had the leadership of the non-asshole orcs handed to him by Blizzard when they killed off Durotan and make the Draenei into space nazis. Dude can't do shit on his own.

[funcik]

Models disappearing doest mean there would have been a mountain if they hadn't. Besides Brixigar was solo on Argus. Grom was with us, Khadgar, and Yrel. He then claimed our kill and claimed Dreanor was free after he was the one who fucked it up so bad. He then had the leadership of the non-asshole orcs handed to him by Blizzard when they killed off Durotan and make the Draenei into space nazis. Dude can't do shit on his own.

In the "War of the Ancients" it was directly written that the demons were stupid enough to go the distance of the strike. Of those demons, not a single one is known powerfull from which it can be completely concluded that they were demons as in the battle of Varian against the forces of Gul'dan, only Broxigar could not be surrounded because he was defending portal himself and Varian attacked Gul'dan's forces beacause was killed from behind.
These were not strong demons, this would have been indicated or specified elsewhere, but no one made any clarifications. And given that the book says that the demons are stupid, it means they was manikins of a level no higher than fellguard.