It's Time To Do Away With The Holy Trinity

[cuafpr]

No... its bad enough threat has given way to "tank dps" ... instead let's go back to tanks worried about TPS and slower rotations and boss fights about flow and control and positioning, and tank DPS in grps being laughable again with true defensive stats

[Beet]

No thanks. If anything I want to see threat added again. It’s what makes tanking enjoyable to me. I don’t want to worry about keeping myself alive as a tank. That’s my healers role. I want to use the abilities I have at my disposal to generate as much threat as possible.

I used to tank from vanilla until WoD. I finally quit it because it wasn’t fun anymore. I don’t like being just a guy who has to hit buttons to stay alive. I liked fighting the boss for threat. It felt so rewarding.

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definately remove tanks and heals, would be much healthier for the game, in a state where you have to wait sometimes hours for a tank or heal just doing mythic+

or how they annoy people in pvp for no good reasion everywhere they are.

or give options to exclude them for parts of the game, so people see how good the game can be without them.

tanks and heals never were that powerful since like cataclym happened, yet, to this day, hardly anyone is playing them in comparission to the flood of dds. Dont think this is a success story at all.

You seem to contradict yourself many times here. Are they too powerful and thus bother you in PVP? Or are they weak since Cataclysm and no one plays them? Either way thankfully Blizzard will never be stupid enough to remove the trinity system. What they could do though is add a sixth dps slot to five mans. That would help.

[Raven]

Tank shortages are bad for the game. Me personally playing a tank, which I often do, does not change the tank shortage being bad for the game.

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Because some people like playing them and it should be a viable way to tackle content.

Still dont understand, why keep healers and tanks if you dont need then, ohh here are 2 type of classes that you can play instead of dps it will just take alot longer to do anything or kill anything and if you say just increase the damage so healers and tank do same damage as dps classes, are they really healer and tank classes then and not just a dps class that can also heal and a dps class that can take more damage.

[FossilFree]

I'd like it if every class got a healer and a tank spec, even if that pushes some classes up to 5 specs (I don't care). Some specs could be repurposed for this, like beast mastery, demonology, and enhancement tanks. Others would have to be invented.

[Moxal]

No thank you. All I play is healers, so yeah, no.

[VinceVega]

That has to be the stpuidest idea i have ever seen on MMO-Champion or any forum for that matter.

That is the CORE of the game. Literally... Everything is build around these three roles. I can see them adding a true supporter. But in no way putting away with it alltogether.
That would make it something like destiny. Just run trough content without planing. Dmg above everything.

In no way shape or form will this ever be done or should be done.
Look at games that have this... they are basically dead. Because it is boring. You can't have any difficult things except like platformer minigames in encounters. Like having to jump on pillars to get to the next phase. Everyone for themselfs because there is nothing you can put on anyone else but yourself. Otherwise you have again some form of roles. Which in turn mean you can out away with the MMO part altogether because who cares what other are doing of it has no impact to what is happening to me?

[HitPoint]

Honestly I want more roles, Removing roles/jobs to certain aspects of the games mechanics would kill the game for me. I love being able to play multiple roles and a lot of my friends that like to just heal and not dps/tank would quit the game.

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I'd like it if every class got a healer and a tank spec, even if that pushes some classes up to 5 specs (I don't care). Some specs could be repurposed for this, like beast mastery, demonology, and enhancement tanks. Others would have to be invented.

Ya, let's remove any uniqueness to a class and let them do every role. Everyone should be a druid/paladin amirite xD

[BeepBoo]

I never claimed that the Holy Trinity wasn’t restrictive. But when the goal is to remove restriction, and you wind up making it even more restrictive with so-called “intelligent design”...just lel.

How is it more restrictive exactly?

Having a game capable of supporting any comp of characters is less restrictive on the players. That's the best kind of less restrictive.

"But then they can't freely design fights with a plethora of different mechanics that necessitate a bunch of different niches!"
Good. When they do that and have wildly different designs between combat encounters, we get stuff like rogue stacking in KJ. Or Rogue stacking in M+. Or only using warrior tanks. Or stacking SPriests. Any time something is discernibly better because wow devs decide to be "unrestricted" in their approach to encounter development, we get __some__ kind of stacking. There are just certain things they shouldn't try. There are plenty of ways to make the same <x> basic mechanics interesting an infinite number of times, as opposed to always trying to think up new mechanics.

[HitPoint]

Having everyone able to just do everything how exactly would you balance mythic raids for it? If everyone can do everything, everyone can heal efficiently, dps, and tank, then what's the point? It would just feel like doing a harder version of LFR where everyone is capable of dispeling, healing, tanking mobs (everyone spam taunting sounds fun). Restricting each class to specific roles adds a layer to the games mechanics that gives each person a fullfilling job to perform. I don't play MMO's to be able to login to 1 character and master every aspect of the game on said character, I would just play borderlands 3 then.

[ZazuuPriest]

Your phrasing makes it very clear that anything I name either won't be considered "legitimate".

For the purposes we are discussing (instanced group content), Destiny is very comparable. Destiny has fantastic complex boss fights and no set roles.

If you want WoW to be more like Destiny then yeah I don't consider your opinion valid

[HitPoint]

If you want WoW to be more like Destiny then yeah I don't consider your opinion valid

Indeed. Comparing 6man content (equivalent to islands lol) to an MMO with 20man/30man group content is far off the mark. Entirely different games. Destiny is a first person shooter with limited abilities ffs.

[Anastacy]

How is it more restrictive exactly?

Having a game capable of supporting any comp of characters is less restrictive on the players. That's the best kind of less restrictive.

"But then they can't freely design fights with a plethora of different mechanics that necessitate a bunch of different niches!"
Good. When they do that and have wildly different designs between combat encounters, we get stuff like rogue stacking in KJ. Or Rogue stacking in M+. Or only using warrior tanks. Or stacking SPriests. Any time something is discernibly better because wow devs decide to be "unrestricted" in their approach to encounter development, we get __some__ kind of stacking. There are just certain things they shouldn't try. There are plenty of ways to make the same <x> basic mechanics interesting an infinite number of times, as opposed to always trying to think up new mechanics.

Yeah. You’re right. No stacking classes. Except the ones that do the highest DPS, because healers or tanks aren’t needed, so DPS is king.

Which, at best, isn’t any worse or better than your class stacking woes as is.

I’m still waiting for your creative and intelligent design ideas. Like no joke dude...please prove me wrong. I actually want you to.

[Project 501D13R]

You need the tank/heal/dps trinity in an mmo, otherwise every single fight ends up having one strategy.

[Jastall]

How is it more restrictive exactly?

Having a game capable of supporting any comp of characters is less restrictive on the players. That's the best kind of less restrictive.

"But then they can't freely design fights with a plethora of different mechanics that necessitate a bunch of different niches!"
Good. When they do that and have wildly different designs between combat encounters, we get stuff like rogue stacking in KJ. Or Rogue stacking in M+. Or only using warrior tanks. Or stacking SPriests. Any time something is discernibly better because wow devs decide to be "unrestricted" in their approach to encounter development, we get __some__ kind of stacking. There are just certain things they shouldn't try. There are plenty of ways to make the same <x> basic mechanics interesting an infinite number of times, as opposed to always trying to think up new mechanics.

Who the fuck cares about a tiny percentage of the playerbase stacking classes in Mythic raids. Changing the game's very core over something this asinine is ridiculous.

If you want a multiplayer game without the holy trinity, go play Borderlands or Desnity or Guild Wars 2 or something. There nobody has a niche, combat is a chaotic mess and it's all about pumping out the damage while avoiding the fire on the ground. I'm fine playing that sort of game, but WoW is not like that, shouldn't be like that and thankfully won't be like that after 16 years of a tried and true system.

[FossilFree]

Ya, let's remove any uniqueness to a class and let them do every role. Everyone should be a druid/paladin amirite xD

Why does it matter? Are you telling me a rogue bard spec healer that heals using combo points wouldn't be unique?

[crakerjack]

You can't just remove roles. Like others have said, there's MMO's out there that try to avoid roles and look where they are compared to WoW. Roles aren't going anywhere. You have tanks who get punched in the face, DPS who go pew pew and healers who freak out trying to keep people from dying. That's how WoW should remain until the day it dies.

[Detritivores]

The near universal negative reaction to this thread says about all that needs to be said regarding what a bad idea it is. Lots of good points being made.

But additionally, Blizz is already doing a good job of mixing in less structured, less role specific content. Islands were indeed hot garbage, but visions have been pretty neat. And I have high hopes for Torghast. These are all interesting and role-agnostic forms of content, so long as you can do some damage. And they now provide quite the means to power progression with visions dropping just shy of mythic raid loot.

They will never and should never change the "trinity" role requirements of hard dungeons and raids. This is the core of what WoW is and is high on the list of reasons for why most people find the game engaging and fun. There are many solutions to no tanks queuing for easy PUG content without destroying the core of what makes this game what it is.

[PaladinBash]

Tank shortage? It is only ever mediocre and bad players that are hurt in this. Good players have groups to do stuff with because they don't suck and tanks are fine tanking for them. It is only rude, pushy and uppity DPS that are hurt by this system. Eliminating tanking altogether would mean there is nobody keeping them in check and think of the most spergy DH you've ever seen in a dungeon. Now imagine everyone has his mindset and attitude towards content and bam, that is what you will have. It will be nothing but DH Main players everywhere.

[ShaanuJaanu]

The mechanics that made the holy trinity work are mostly long gone (threat management). Right now, the holy trinity is a vestigial appendage that only serves to make it more difficult for people to get into the content. It also restricts design decisions by making bosses hit so hard that you need tanks and healers, preventing creative solutions to encounters.

This doesn't mean we shouldn't have classes with tank and healer toolkits, but those roles should be altered to fit a model that does not require them.

The problem is you.

[NihilSustinet]

no, others mmo without holy trinity just sucks, try them if you are interested in that

yup, every single other MMO that has made any attempt to create challenging, rewarding pve without the trinity has failed miserably.