I think Shadowlands will be another Warlords of Draenor

[Big Thanks]

Blizzard already said, black-on-white, that we'll have world quests and "emissaries" in Shadowlands (and you can even unlock world quests for your alts at level 50, instead of having to reach max level on your alts to do world quests), so that alone is WAY MORE than Warlords of Draenor had to offer for outdoor content outside of raids. And then we have Torghast, which, again, looks quite fun.

i guess you are right...is not really that hard to surpass Draenor gameplay (>_<)

[TheRevenantHero]

I assume you’re talking about killing bosses you need a raid group for? Because while you don’t need rating for those you do need to actually kill and complete the content, not that it’s difficult killing heroic bosses or getting 1800 for easy rewards.

Don’t get me wrong, gearing via pve is quicker, but your post being surprised at seeing someone with 500k hp in pvp is just silly.

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Can you explain how?

There just doesn't seem to be much to do once you hit max level other than Torghast and raid.

[Enan1981]

Just reading of the title, well, I do wish for Garrisons to come back lol.

[Revamp Man]

So you’re another person that’s just pissed off that they remove titan forging and don’t plan to replace it

You say that the expansion will be Raid or die however at the same time you mention the other content and other way people would progress but you dismiss it

I know you probably don’t like Raiders because you’re probably got kicked out of the group or you didn’t get that super strong item that dropped when you decided to join them on progress and you spent 90% of the fight on the floor and it went to the other guy that was there for months and actually put in the pulls but you need to stop

Warlords was a failure because there was nothing outside of the Raid’s. Even the lowest level of the Raid had different gear and you want to talk about it being catered towards Raiders win that was the first expansion that the only reason why Raiders were able to enjoy themselves was because when there’s no content but Raid’s they still have their favorite content.

We did not like warlords drain or at least I didn’t and no one on my team did because there was nothing to do and the fact that we didn’t have to do anything and had everything supplied to us by our Garrison was again not something that we enjoyed it also wasn’t the fault of blizzard for moving titan forging because like I said that was when that system first started rearing its ugly head if anything it was why the game was disliked

I want you to try and give me an explanation for why lottery gear is so good and so necessary please because the game survived so long without it

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There just doesn't seem to be much to do once you hit max level other than Torghast and raid.

Dungeons
World quests in their new form
World pvp
World bosses

What else do you want?

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i guess you are right...is not really that hard to surpass Draenor gameplay (>_<)

I don’t know everyone decides they need to compare the new expansion to warlords just because we don’t have the fucking gear lottery so might as well use the comparison against them

[Corroc]

How is Wod raid-or-die expansion when it only had two tiers? Wod was doa for content the minute it was released because they already knew they wouldn't have enough content.

Besides what the OP is basically saying is "You cant get gear if you dont do anything". World quests will still be there, Torghast will have gear rewards. There will be emissaries but in different form.
Only real difference is that you cant luck out with gear by doing inferior content ie. getting lucky TF or corruption.

[Big Thanks]

I disagree. I will no life Torghast.

No you wont silly

Blizzard is the King, Queen and Godfather of timegates
I dont believe for a second Blizzard will allow this to happen. It would be a first since maybe oldschool reputation farms without timegates.

They are even thinking in adding a "mechanic" to Torghast to implement a "timer"
Its not an actual timer because Blizzard dont want to go back on its word.....but is literally a smart way to replicate a timer.

So they are already breaking promisses

[wombinator04]

Yes, but It'll be another WoD in terms of art, style and music. An opportunity for Blizzard to create whatever they want, there are no lore limits in the Shadowlands, they can do ANYTHING.

Draenor was incredibly beautiful and amazing because of the opportunity Blizzard had to do whatever they wanted. The zones could be crazy and different, and they were.

[Logwyn]

We'll get a garrison in shadowlands?

[Revamp Man]

Both the writing of the story and the game content I've seen so far is actually screaming WoD, I agree. They've retconned a bunch of shit, the writing is atrocious with what they've revealed, and the feel is very WoD. Add to that it seems to be mostly catering to raid loggers. Sure Torghast looks cool but ONE thing can't save an entire expansion.

Can you tell me how raid loggers are being catered to in the new expansion when we have more consumables required than the last 4 expansions??

WoD we could make whatever but now it’s not like that so please tell me unless we have infinite gold how can we just raid log??

“You can sell carries” can’t until after farm so again please please tell me how in the world raid logging is catered to?

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No you wont silly

Blizzard is the King, Queen and Godfather of timegates
I dont believe for a second Blizzard will allow this to happen. It would be a first since maybe oldschool reputation farms without timegates.

They are even thinking in adding a "mechanic" to Torghast to implement a "timer"
Its not an actual timer because Blizzard dont want to go back on its word.....but is literally a smart way to replicate a timer.

So they are already breaking promisses

The only kind of timer we have is the mob that punishes you for failing

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How is Wod raid-or-die expansion when it only had two tiers? Wod was doa for content the minute it was released because they already knew they wouldn't have enough content.

Besides what the OP is basically saying is "You cant get gear if you dont do anything". World quests will still be there, Torghast will have gear rewards. There will be emissaries but in different form.
Only real difference is that you cant luck out with gear by doing inferior content ie. getting lucky TF or corruption.

That is what they are angry about

Apparently removing titan forging makes the game a raid or die expansion that caters to Raid loggers because our best in slot list is now actually attainable because they’ve heard about it but much like a lot of stuff when it comes to the game people only hear about it and consider themselves experts

They talk about Raid logging like it was possible just because the only thing and the game was a Raid even though the Garrison was the main reason why that was possible along with the death of professions

[Big Thanks]

The only kind of timer we have is the mob that punishes you for failing

They said on the recent interview they will implement a system where more mobs will come if you take wayyy too much time.
Because they dont want you to wait for heroism for every pull...or wait for any cooldowns on every pull.

Confirmed.

Is basically a timer...without numbers on the screen.

A work around just to not break the promisse to not implement a timer.

[Revamp Man]

They said on the recent interview they will implement a system where more mobs will come if you take wayyy too much time.
Because they dont want you to wait for heroism for every pull...or wait for any cooldowns on every pull.

Confirmed.

Is basically a timer...without numbers on the screen.

A work around just to not break a promisse.

Well then you have to figure out how long that’s going to be because honestly I’m kind of on their side you shouldn’t be waiting for hero for every other trash pack because that will make it too easy to essentially skip the mechanics of that run

Can’t really judge that until we see it but I’m not exactly against the idea of them not wanting groups who sit there for an hour every floor because they can’t beat it without every single advantage they can have

[Pilek01]

*** WARNING WARNING PERSONAL OPINION!!!!! ***

With what I've heard so far, I think Shadowlands is going to end up being another Warlords of Draenor.

They're basically going back to a Raid-Or-Die model. Yes, we now have the caveat of Mythic+. That does change the dynamics.

But unfortunately, both cater to the same crowd: Those who push content.

And if gear is only going to those types of people, then your casuals are going to max out their gear and have nothing left to do.

That is exactly what happened in WoD.

I do greatly understand that max effort should yield max reward.

But I argue for a middle ground. That max effort yields most efficient reward. But that casuals should have a method to gear up as well. Make it long, make it a slog, but make it available.

This model worked very well in Wrath. And yes, I was around for the complaints about it as well, from the same group of people who are arguing against casuals getting gear outside of raiding/mythic+ today.

If WoW continues down this path, they'll see a lot more people move to FF14, where anyone can work toward gear. Again, the elites have the most efficient way, but the casuals aren't left out in the cold.

/end personal opinion. Let the attacks begin!

I would also remove so high ilvl gear from M+
It's just stupid that people can get better gear from running a dungeon than from heroic raiding.
After all the main thing in wow is raiding and always was, starting back in vanilla.
M+ is cool and all but should never reward better ilvl than heroic raiding.
I understand noobs want high ilvl from dungeons (weekly chest rewarding 470ilvl for doing +12 which is easy). Im also only a casual player. But Raiding is about gathering that 10-30 players and working together. What is the point of doing Heroic raiding when you get get better ilvl by spamming m+ with 4 other dudes. ??

[Revamp Man]

I would also remove so high ilvl gear from M+
It's just stupid that people can get better gear from running a dungeon than from heroic raiding.
After all the main thing in wow is raiding and always was, starting back in vanilla.
M+ is cool and all but should never reward better ilvl than heroic raiding.
I understand noobs want high ilvl from dungeons (weekly chest rewarding 470ilvl for doing +12 which is easy). Im also only a casual player. But Raiding is about gathering that 10-30 players and working together. What is the point of doing Heroic raiding when you get get better ilvl by spamming m+ with 4 other dudes. ??

Better weapons
Easier to predict drops
Better trinkets
Bigger loot pools

Plus it feels better

As much as blizz says ilvl is king we all know that’s BS

[Wildmoon]

Dungeons will always be relevant going forward because of M+. You do 3-4 things in WoW in every xpac. Raid, dungeon, some variation of daily quest, and pvp. It's just how these activities fit into progression structure that will matter. WoD removed dungeon from that structure.

[Relapses]

Just reading of the title, well, I do wish for Garrisons to come back lol.

You'll get the next best thing: Auto Chess!

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I would also remove so high ilvl gear from M+
It's just stupid that people can get better gear from running a dungeon than from heroic raiding.
After all the main thing in wow is raiding and always was, starting back in vanilla.
M+ is cool and all but should never reward better ilvl than heroic raiding.
I understand noobs want high ilvl from dungeons (weekly chest rewarding 470ilvl for doing +12 which is easy). Im also only a casual player. But Raiding is about gathering that 10-30 players and working together. What is the point of doing Heroic raiding when you get get better ilvl by spamming m+ with 4 other dudes. ??

Show us on the doll where M+ touched you.

[mauserr]

Mythic+
Torghast
World Quests

Those 3 things are already making this expansion not WoD. Not that I wouldn't mind WoD as a world30 raider gone turbocasual. Finish heroic week 1-2 max, play some m+ for shits and giggles, stay subbed for farm content and have fun with logs.

[Revamp Man]

Dungeons will always be relevant going forward because of M+. You do 3-4 things in WoW in every xpac. Raid, dungeon, some variation of daily quest, and pvp. It's just how these activities fit into progression structure that will matter. WoD removed dungeon from that structure.

WoD I think just had raids and pvp

The OP is just crying over TF removal

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Mythic+
Torghast
World Quests

Those 3 things are already making this expansion not WoD. Not that I wouldn't mind WoD as a world30 raider gone turbocasual. Finish heroic week 1-2 max, play some m+ for shits and giggles, stay subbed for farm content and have fun with logs.

I mean carry my ass and I’ll be your raid mat mule

[Super Kami Dende]

But Wod was another Cata, and Legion was another WoD, and BFA is just another Legion.

[Ezyah]

sigh here we go ...

this is the kind of reasoning that brought us to this madness that corruption is today.

NO PLEASE NO

[Feral Druid ist Op]

So you’re another person that’s just pissed off that they remove titan forging and don’t plan to replace it

You say that the expansion will be Raid or die however at the same time you mention the other content and other way people would progress but you dismiss it

I know you probably don’t like Raiders because you’re probably got kicked out of the group or you didn’t get that super strong item that dropped when you decided to join them on progress and you spent 90% of the fight on the floor and it went to the other guy that was there for months and actually put in the pulls but you need to stop

you described 90% of the mmochamp community , mouth breathing bads in their own paradox world where it is to time consuming to do normal mode and HC over a weeks span wihle being online twice as long as us hardcore raider.

my server for example has 2 guilds that only raid ~4 hours a week both are 11/12M super casual but not bad