I would love to see the removal of heirlooms from the game.

[rhorle]

The game worked differently back then. Lots of quest rewards were not upgrades at all while others were huge and would last through the next zone.

But that part hasn't really changed. There are still a few quests that give good items and others that do not. Blizzard changed it a little with Cataclysm but the gear through leveling is still all over the place. Which is one of the reasons why heirlooms as scaling gear were implemented. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Because that cool sword will be out dated as you quickly gain 10 levels from the XP boost.

There never was a full set of gearing per zone in the game. This really is a case of rose tinted glasses while wanting to force everyone to play that way. Level scaling doesn't change anything at all. Because rewards are only the level at which you earn them. It means that even in one zone you could theoretically have a 10 level gap between the items. You will have huge gaps in the power of gear. Which means that either gear will have to be meaningless so as not to impact the difficulty or their will be drastic difficulty changes depending one when you do certain quests for the reward you need.

The current alt I am leveling is still wearing a item level 34 bracer, 48 gloves, 44 belt, and 46 boots at level 52. I haven't got an upgrade through quest or a world drop. Obviously the item level 40 items aren't to big of a deal. But the bracer is a huge deal. That isn't a "super awesome" experience that is being missed. This is why the scaling item level of Heirlooms are just as important as the XP boost.

The faster you level the worse the gearing process becomes.

[Darkeon]

It has to be a really petty life one must have in order to be bothered by such things as other players having and using said Heirlooms.

[Clash the DK]

But that part hasn't really changed. There are still a few quests that give good items and others that do not. Blizzard changed it a little with Cataclysm but the gear through leveling is still all over the place. Which is one of the reasons why heirlooms as scaling gear were implemented. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Because that cool sword will be out dated as you quickly gain 10 levels from the XP boost.

There never was a full set of gearing per zone in the game. This really is a case of rose tinted glasses while wanting to force everyone to play that way. Level scaling doesn't change anything at all. Because rewards are only the level at which you earn them. It means that even in one zone you could theoretically have a 10 level gap between the items. You will have huge gaps in the power of gear. Which means that either gear will have to be meaningless so as not to impact the difficulty or their will be drastic difficulty changes depending one when you do certain quests for the reward you need.

The current alt I am leveling is still wearing a item level 34 bracer, 48 gloves, 44 belt, and 46 boots at level 52. I haven't got an upgrade through quest or a world drop. Obviously the item level 40 items aren't to big of a deal. But the bracer is a huge deal. That isn't a "super awesome" experience that is being missed. This is why the scaling item level of Heirlooms are just as important as the XP boost.

The faster you level the worse the gearing process becomes.

All good points.

Maybe fun gear acquisition in parallel with XP bonuses is just not possible at this stage of the game.
It's a shame losing that component, but the longevity of an MMO has ever changing challenges.

[kaintk]

you remind me of those guys who slash against flying mount

you dont like it ?
just play without it

people like you should stop generalizing everything and thinking that because you dont love one thing, that everyone dont like it

YOU DONT LIKE IT , NOT EVERYONE

so, just play the game without heirloom

[Greengrim]

I would love to see stupid suggestions on MMO.

[Mysterymask]

you remind me of those guys who slash against flying mount

you dont like it ?
just play without it

people like you should stop generalizing everything and thinking that because you dont love one thing, that everyone dont like it

YOU DONT LIKE IT , NOT EVERYONE

so, just play the game without heirloom

Would argue that flying is a bit different than Heirlooms

There are parts of the game now you simply CANNOT do without flying. Even in the flying optional parts.

However you legit do not NEED Heirlooms. You can get from 1-120 without them quite easily. Anyone just starting out has to unless someone buys them heirlooms or they came out the gate a damned AH goblin. Flying can be done accientally heirlooms are delibrate and if you dont wanna use them but cant help yourself...thats a you problem not a Blizzard problem

[TorAndre]

Since the thread is not dead yet and I made it I think I have some sort responsobility to reply to it once and a while.

Reading the posts and since I made the thread there is one strong argument against it. Or 2. One is that some people like go have scalable gear so they dont have to be plauged with upgrades. I never thought I would see people not liking upgrades in an mmo though, but here we are. The second is people don't like to retransmog all the time.

The "Dont like it dont use it" argument I stopped replying to.

I still believe I have a strong argument. I have leveled around 15-20 alts the last 2 years all inn full heirloom and as fast as possible. Didn't bother about anything of the story. And it was super boring. I did it like almost only semi-aware on that I was actually doing.

Then I decided I was going to start something new. Fresh account. No heirlooms, no gold and read quests. I was really surprised how better everything felt. The game is pretty easy allready, but it felt like stuff mattered. And I had a blast doing it.

I think we humans are often able to put ourselves slowly over time into situtations that actually makes things worse. I have often by other people been given suggestions how to something and I found myself beliving I did something how I actually wanted it, then I found out I was wrong. Its the same with leveling now. I feel like I am actually playing the game because its not trivialised to the same extent. It also made me see the game from almost a new players experience.

Couple of times in dungeons I would pretend to be completely new to the game and often that was a horrible experience when tanking. People were so extremely impatient. Even chain pulling pack after pack was too slow for some people. And one ninjapuller said something that triggered me to make this thread, he said "I didn't spend all that gold on heirlooms to go so slowly".

This is why I still believe heirlooms have a bad impact on the game as whole, even though people seem to enjoy them. They are here to stay. But if one person who reads this thread will try som introspection and try something different when leveling and finds it an improvement, I have done my part I think.

If I can be wrong on how I play the game, others can as well.

[SinR]

Everyone plays the game differently. I'll admit that.

OP what you're proposing is removal of one group's play method. rush to cap where the real fun starts. They think its fun to rush gogogogogo. You are pretty much telling them "No, you can't play your way, only mine." And that's no fun.

You're not wrong in how you play your game. They're not wrong in how they play their game. They may see you as wrong, you may see them as wrong, but at the end of the day there's no wrong way to play the game. It's a game. its here for enjoyment. to get away from the bullshit in your life. If the game isn't fun you (A) find something in it that IS fun, or (B) move on to something else.

At the end of the day though I have no right to tell you how to play your game. You likewise have no right to tell me how to play.

[Mysterymask]

sigh..lets go through this piece by piece..

The "Dont like it dont use it" argument I stopped replying to.

But that IS the strongest argument...there is NOTHING in the leveling process that is stopped by you using an heirloom and YOU are the one who clicks to make them and its YOU that has no self control on using it...

Then I decided I was going to start something new. Fresh account. No heirlooms, no gold and read quests. I was really surprised how better everything felt. The game is pretty easy allready, but it felt like stuff mattered. And I had a blast doing it.

I think we humans are often able to put ourselves slowly over time into situtations that actually makes things worse. I have often by other people been given suggestions how to something and I found myself beliving I did something how I actually wanted it, then I found out I was wrong. Its the same with leveling now. I feel like I am actually playing the game because its not trivialised to the same extent. It also made me see the game from almost a new players experience.

And ALL of that is still doable without making an account by simply ignoring the heirlooms...hell if I make an alt I forget I have them sometimes.

Couple of times in dungeons I would pretend to be completely new to the game and often that was a horrible experience when tanking.

Heirlooms have nothing to do with this part...that is you actually being a bit of an asshole for the sake of some roleplay

People were so extremely impatient. Even chain pulling pack after pack was too slow for some people. And one ninjapuller said something that triggered me to make this thread, he said "I didn't spend all that gold on heirlooms to go so slowly".

People in wow were assholes before heirlooms and will be assholes AFTER heirlooms...this is more the fault of the queuing system than heirloom gear. Group with 4 randos across the world the chance of 1 or more of them being a bit of a dick increases. Add in YOU actually pretending to be new and inept kinda egged that guy on...something tells me you were really bad at pretending and someone may of figured it out.


TLDR this is a you problem not a Blizzard one

[TorAndre]

sigh..lets go through this piece by piece..



But that IS the strongest argument...there is NOTHING in the leveling process that is stopped by you using an heirloom and YOU are the one who clicks to make them and its YOU that has no self control on using it...




And ALL of that is still doable without making an account by simply ignoring the heirlooms...hell if I make an alt I forget I have them sometimes.


Heirlooms have nothing to do with this part...that is you actually being a bit of an asshole for the sake of some roleplay


People in wow were assholes before heirlooms and will be assholes AFTER heirlooms...this is more the fault of the queuing system than heirloom gear. Group with 4 randos across the world the chance of 1 or more of them being a bit of a dick increases. Add in YOU actually pretending to be new and inept kinda egged that guy on...something tells me you were really bad at pretending and someone may of figured it out.


TLDR this is a you problem not a Blizzard one

I would agree with you on most of these points to an extent if it was the case that using heirlooms or not, only had a impact on that person, and not people around them and the game in general.

In dungeons specifically, heirlooms make people into one-man armies, ninjapulling stuff, being assholes because peopel without heirlooms are too careful, wiping the group etc. You can always say this would be the case without heirlooms, but it would not be an issue to the same extent.

- - - Updated - - -

Everyone plays the game differently. I'll admit that.

OP what you're proposing is removal of one group's play method. rush to cap where the real fun starts. They think its fun to rush gogogogogo. You are pretty much telling them "No, you can't play your way, only mine." And that's no fun.

You're not wrong in how you play your game. They're not wrong in how they play their game. They may see you as wrong, you may see them as wrong, but at the end of the day there's no wrong way to play the game. It's a game. its here for enjoyment. to get away from the bullshit in your life. If the game isn't fun you (A) find something in it that IS fun, or (B) move on to something else.

At the end of the day though I have no right to tell you how to play your game. You likewise have no right to tell me how to play.

I get your point.

Not entirely saying "You can't play your way, only mine" Its more like I am trying to say "Have you considered you are using a system that hurts the game in general?"

If there is a way to get the point across humbly to people that they are ways for people to MAYBE enjoy the game more, than they are doing allready. Please do tell.

[Sansnom]

I get your point.

Not entirely saying "You can't play your way, only mine" Its more like I am trying to say "Have you considered you are using a system that hurts the game in general?"

If there is a way to get the point across humbly to people that they are ways for people to MAYBE enjoy the game more, than they are doing allready. Please do tell.

No. You do not get the point. You are implying you are right, they are wrong. Why must you find a way to get your point to them? Because you are right? That is a problem right there.

[Thestrawman]

I would agree with you on most of these points to an extent if it was the case that using heirlooms or not, only had a impact on that person, and not people around them and the game in general.

In dungeons specifically, heirlooms make people into one-man armies, ninjapulling stuff, being assholes because peopel without heirlooms are too careful, wiping the group etc. You can always say this would be the case without heirlooms, but it would not be an issue to the same extent.

You admitted the same yourself when you were complaining about the way people run classic dungeons. So your problem is with the playerbase and not heirlooms.

[Wolfrick]

YES... YES ANND MORE YES.... they are such a Curse on the levelin system and playerinteractions...

There should be a potion to give Veteran players more EXP, sure, and keep the Heirloom gear like tramog gear that will level with you but keep the tranmog.

but no stats and no exp bonus...


giving players a leveling gear system that is "blue" or better... is the most idiotic idea Blizzard have ever put into wow... I loved to level.... after Catacslym... the world was so broken... and players just RUSH BY.... so sad...

Thanks god blizzard work on classic and found out how bad the leveling was in WoW... in SHadowlands level will be fun again and lets hoppe HEIRLOOMS GET RREMOVED!!!


again!!! YES!!! they just ruin Twink pvp and just makes players way to powerful... in a very easy way.

[Saltysquidoon]

again!!! YES!!! they just ruin Twink pvp and just makes players way to powerful... in a very easy way.

You can't honestly not see the irony of posting that heirlooms ruin pvp twinking when the whole point of twinking is to give yourself an 'unfair' advantage.

[Yarathir]

YES... YES ANND MORE YES.... they are such a Curse on the levelin system and playerinteractions...

There should be a potion to give Veteran players more EXP, sure, and keep the Heirloom gear like tramog gear that will level with you but keep the tranmog.

but no stats and no exp bonus...


giving players a leveling gear system that is "blue" or better... is the most idiotic idea Blizzard have ever put into wow... I loved to level.... after Catacslym... the world was so broken... and players just RUSH BY.... so sad...

Thanks god blizzard work on classic and found out how bad the leveling was in WoW... in SHadowlands level will be fun again and lets hoppe HEIRLOOMS GET RREMOVED!!!


again!!! YES!!! they just ruin Twink pvp and just makes players way to powerful... in a very easy way.

>They ruin twink pvp
That seems like a positive thing, though.

[rhorle]

they just ruin Twink pvp and just makes players way to powerful... in a very easy way.

I see nothing wrong with allowing people to easily be the same power as anyone else. Besides level scaling ruins twinks as well. Because anyone can turn off XP and then complete the quests that give the powerful items.

Scaling gear is necessary with an XP boost because you level faster then you gain gear. The only way Blizzard can fix this is by changing how gear is rewarded while leveling. Which then defeats the entire reason people keep citing for the removal of scaling gear. Gear progression is flimsy at best and not something that should be a requirement while leveling.

[Dormie]

Let me guess the sophistication level of the arguments for heirlooms in this thread...jUsT dOnT uSe tHEm

[PenguinChan]

Or, better yet - have an EXP toggle on the heirloom window. Don't want to use Heirlooms but want the EXP? Turn it on. Want the scaling gear but don't like the extra speed? Turn it off.

PS: Full twinks were objectively broken compared to heirloom users back in the day. Sometimes Heirloom would outdo the twink gear, or combine with it (depending if those slots were available), or reach a similar point to them, but it wasn't uncommon for your ass to get one-shit in PVP by a twink - or have dungeon runs be absurdly easy with a twink.

[fatgunn]

Or, better yet - have an EXP toggle on the heirloom window. Don't want to use Heirlooms but want the EXP? Turn it on. Want the scaling gear but don't like the extra speed? Turn it off.

PS: Full twinks were objectively broken compared to heirloom users back in the day. Sometimes Heirloom would outdo the twink gear, or combine with it (depending if those slots were available), or reach a similar point to them, but it wasn't uncommon for your ass to get one-shit in PVP by a twink - or have dungeon runs be absurdly easy with a twink.

Twinks still have potential to be op. I've been leveling allied race characters with some friends and quite often we would run into somebody, mostly monks, level locked to 20 or 30 with no heirlooms just destroying us on the meters and we were all fully decked out.

[shadowmatrix]

Why does there need to be some new system to solve this issue? Don't use heirlooms if you don't like them that much, its not like level is slow these days. Even the early days of scaling was still faster then TBC leveling. Sometimes the simple solutions really are the best.