OK Boomer! (looking for info)

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

You have Asian family and might understand this question better. As I read the replies with younger posters saying they feel a lack of respect, I'm reminded of the current state of mianzi in China. It seems to be in flux, still important, still part of the cultural setting, but the old rules aren't working well and younger Chinese seem to be unable to explain what is replacing them. As population grows in NA/EU, is there a shift towards something closer to mianzi? I'm not over there, I'm just struck by how Chinese some replies sound, so xiao Huangdi.

While my favorite aunt is from a Han family originating from HK, my Asian side is not that much Chinese anymore, our ancestors having left in early Qing time, before making it big and mingling in the Philippines. While it might be changing a bit, with the population now exceeding 100 Mio, it is a fact that those that count usually know each other at least indirectly via their large groups of relatives. As an outsider I'd rate the society there as very prestige driven, but saving face being less of a concern compared to earning and giving favors.

By analogy, maybe there is also a key difference between continental China and the rest of the diaspora and the rest of Asia, as the One-Child-Policy has most likely considerably eroded the structure of family networks : with no siblings, cousins and 2nd cousins, i suppose relations with peers a bound to become more individualistic, as your interactions would only affect yourself, and wouldn't ripple across you clan as much as it used to.

I can't say much for the rest of Europe or NA, but I am living in a country that has been densely populated already and mostly at peace for half a millennia now, and the basic premise has for long been that "its a small world". We probably do somehow have an equivalent of losing face, as here bankruptcy is very badly perceived socially compared to the US.

- - - Updated - - -

It also depends on where they are from, in Canada and around where I live I see most of them are pretty level headed. Even my parents both being in their 60's soon have continued to change and accept things as they got older based on new information. Some people just are just not willing to change no matter what age.

This very much.

Of the people I know that are in their 60's, most are very level people living with their times after a life either mostly fulfilled or on the contrary full of hardships.

The only one that seems stuck has been, for as long as I remember (around 30 years), fixated on healthy foods (with inconclusive results), pollution, pro-life advocacy, denouncing debt-fueled economy and advocating UBI. Make of that what you will...

[shadowmouse]

Doesn't your router support a vpn connection?

I live in mainland China. Any VPN I might trust is on the wrong side of what is called the Great Firewall, a system of filters that now blocks a great deal of foreign content, including VPNs. Some of the VPNs I might be able to access have shady connections, and I don't trust channeling my information through them.

Payment is an additional complication. The better VPNs (as far as I can find with my hamstrung resources) are paid services. I'm paid in RMB and those go into a Chinese bank designated by the finance office of my employer (usually selected because someone in the office gets kickback from that bank). Domestically, that isn't a problem and I *really* like Alipay. Sadly, like WeChat it doesn't have much presence outside of China.

@Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang Noted, thanks!

From what I see, particularly among the younger Chinese, there is more of a chip on the shoulder air to mianzi these days. I had a class that included a particularly highly placed VIP interpreter from the Olympics. I got called in as a favor to a friend because their instructor couldn't handle the class and just quit without notice. They were way too advanced for the course, and the book would have been to simple for even the target audience.

We winged it a lot, so one class I asked them to explain mianzi. I was told they couldn't, but they could give an example. Many of them were hotel management majors from good universities, several of them from the same one, and they shared the following: There were two guys, best friends, drinking together. Their girlfriends came to join them, but there was only one extra seat. It flared into a conflict over whose girlfriend could sit, and neither would back down. In the end, one guy stabbed the other -- his life long best friend -- fatally, over whose girlfriend got the extra chair." They said: "and that's mianzi, it can get really stupid".

The story they told matches much of what I've seen. I tend to have two points that I make in social situations here -- the laowai understands the importance of mianzi, but it is like being colorblind, I can't see it the way they can, also (when dating) I just do not get sajiao. Some things just don't translate well across cultures.

[Freighter]

I was about to respond but after reading I guess you wanted stuff more related to Europe?

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

I live in mainland China. Any VPN I might trust is on the wrong side of what is called the Great Firewall, a system of filters that now blocks a great deal of foreign content, including VPNs. Some of the VPNs I might be able to access have shady connections, and I don't trust channeling my information through them.

Payment is an additional complication. The better VPNs (as far as I can find with my hamstrung resources) are paid services. I'm paid in RMB and those go into a Chinese bank designated by the finance office of my employer (usually selected because someone in the office gets kickback from that bank). Domestically, that isn't a problem and I *really* like Alipay. Sadly, like WeChat it doesn't have much presence outside of China.

@Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang Noted, thanks!

From what I see, particularly among the younger Chinese, there is more of a chip on the shoulder air to mianzi these days. I had a class that included a particularly highly placed VIP interpreter from the Olympics. I got called in as a favor to a friend because their instructor couldn't handle the class and just quit without notice. They were way too advanced for the course, and the book would have been to simple for even the target audience.

We winged it a lot, so one class I asked them to explain mianzi. I was told they couldn't, but they could give an example. Many of them were hotel management majors from good universities, several of them from the same one, and they shared the following: There were two guys, best friends, drinking together. Their girlfriends came to join them, but there was only one extra seat. It flared into a conflict over whose girlfriend could sit, and neither would back down. In the end, one guy stabbed the other -- his life long best friend -- fatally, over whose girlfriend got the extra chair." They said: "and that's mianzi, it can get really stupid".

The story they told matches much of what I've seen. I tend to have two points that I make in social situations here -- the laowai understands the importance of mianzi, but it is like being colorblind, I can't see it the way they can, also (when dating) I just do not get sajiao. Some things just don't translate well across cultures.

On VPN, I met last year in the Philippines some expats based in China, and IIRC their internet providers asked them if they wanted a VPN, only to follow up with a we-cant-do-business-with-you-VPNs-are-illegal.

Dunno if related to payment issues, but while I was preparing my Master (~12 years ago), I volunteered to help Foreign Exchange Students settle and some of the Chinese ones had trouble using their credit cards here in the beginning, even tough it was a Visa and we're not exactly a banking backwater...

For a western mianzi analogue, we still get a dose of honor-mechanism in some of our established immigrant communities. As they are demographically dynamic, their youth make a significant proportion of the current cohorts, but we have much less spatial segregation than other countries, so it is not as extreme as other places in Europe in terms of self-segregation.
There are still some Honor Killings occuring, and a different community has a significant problem with resurging vendettas in their very close home country ignoring borders (see Kanun).

It is less prevalent here than in France, but as they are our neighbor and cross-border exchanges are very important , we do get exposed to a subset of the "youthful" population that seems immensely focused on respect, to the point that "respect" has become a common interjection in their language. A "No" is reportedly considered as a "lack of respect" and a source of prejudice so immense that it does lead to a blind, often murderous explosion of violence. While males used to be the traditional recipients and protagonists of such phenomenon, it has lately expanded to women passerby, even on both sides.

For a while in some countries the political reaction to such dynamics has been avoiding conflict, i.e. seeking to prevent subset groups losing face. With the rise of PC culture, there might indeed be a dynamic geared towards minimalizing frictions.

[Strawberry]

@StayTuned I just double checked. TGF isn't really uniform, it might not be blocked somewhere else, but it ain't working for me right now. Like I said, things have been turned from SNAFU to FUBAR and if I had a VPN I could download a VPN that I then couldn't pay for without being able to use Alipay. More sobbing Tuzki needed.

It has been getting worse the last few years, that's why I'll be moving. Vodka, seafood, olives, CHEESE! Had I chosen Mongolia I figured I'd barely notice the AQI in winter because of my backlog of shows and movies.

You're still in China? Haven't moved yet?

[shadowmouse]

@Freighter Anything is fair game, I've got students from all over the world, there are even some Korean students. Anything you feel like tossing in is welcome. Hell, at this point feel free to chime in on generational differences in South Korea even.
@Strawberry Yeah, COVID-19 spiked my wheels and I can't make it out yet. If I'm lucky, I'll be able to summer in Inner Mongolia, otherwise it looks like I'll get to see Mongolia after all. Plan C is Cambodia, and I fear waking up from a blackout hangover and a 14 year old bride I don't recall meeting almost as much as ducks.
@Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang As an academic I might be able to get one, and I'd lay money on it pretty much painting a target on my account. Since I'm still stuck on Windows 7, I'm sure there are exploits I'm vulnerable to.

Yes, the rest of your comments ring true to the bits I know, and I appreciate them. It is getting a bit late so, I may have to respond in better detail after I get a nap, right now the sleep disorder is making me foggy and I'm on coffee wind down. Apologies.

[shadowmouse]

What about Thailand or Laos? They are not options?

I have contacts in Thailand, but right now they aren't as well placed to help out. As popular as Thailand is, I'm cautious about the military, as well as some things about the royal family and the interplay between Buddhism and tourism. I also have a morbid fear of ducks.

I have no contacts in Laos, and what I know comes second hand through Chinese whose experiences reflect low level gold mining that I suspect to have been of questionable legality and it was out in the middle of nowhere. It wasn't an enticing set of stories.

[Freighter]

I have contacts in Thailand, but right now they aren't as well placed to help out. As popular as Thailand is, I'm cautious about the military, as well as some things about the royal family and the interplay between Buddhism and tourism. I also have a morbid fear of ducks.

I have no contacts in Laos, and what I know comes second hand through Chinese whose experiences reflect low level gold mining that I suspect to have been of questionable legality and it was out in the middle of nowhere. It wasn't an enticing set of stories.

Interplay between buddhism and tourism?

@Natta Lmo is laotian. Could ask her about it.

[shadowmouse]

@Freighter While it doesn't seem to happen often, it seems to happen with some regularity, that tourists say or do the wrong thing at the wrong time and get in trouble for being perceived as disrespectful to royalty, religion or culture and the law gets involved. I'm not planning on getting any tattoos, nor do I have any, but that's one example. There is an undercurrent there that I'm cautious about, tourism aside it is a country with a military government.

Right now, with COVID-19 and things up in the air, I'm not unwilling to consider Laos, I just don't have a strong reason to consider it over places where I have better placed contacts. If Natta Lmo contacts me, by PM or in a thread, sure ... I like to hear about new places and new options, but I'm on a fairly tight timetable right now. I need to get final plans roughed in within a few weeks.

[Krastyn]

Have you thought about format? Where are we? We're posting on Gen-OT on a gaming forum, where a significant number of threads are opened with a copy pasta article or a drop and run video, and maybe a line or two of text. Frankly, a significant number of replies in threads show that anything much longer than that is given the tl;dr treatment.

Not every thread is like that. The poster in question actually took the time to write a paragraphs in response. Then you completely brush it off. Forums are what you make of them. To me, shutting down someone's response like you did without clarification is further encouraging a line or two of text in response.

Let's be honest, this servile, service oriented approach you seem to think Forgettable was owed ... right, where the hell do we see people in these forums communicating like that?

I see it happening on the forums on almost a daily basis. Not everyone, but some. If you want more people acting like that, maybe you should actually encourage it instead of discourage it like you're doing. You can't really complain about posters not taking the effort to respond to you when you behave the same way.

No, you are cherry picking and making a heck of a stretch to find something to reframe Forgettable's language. I wonder if you even bothered to read his whole post. Let me block quote it and add some highlighting.

Both myself and Endus were able to pull out meaning from their post. Forgettable even confirmed it. It's clearly not a heck of a stretch for everyone. Maybe this is another portion of you being out of touch? Maybe you only have narrow way of interpreting what people say.

Now, I suspect that you think you have a real live Boomer to chastise and aren't going to take a hard look at that language, but it is clear that Forgettable sets out from the beginning that he is going off on a rant. It doesn't go very far into the post before the target of the rant is obviously Boomers. That's the polite take, because his preferred expression is old people -- he isn't even talking in generational terms, he's being plain ageist.

It's cute of you to imply that I'm here just to chastise a Boomer. Makes it easier for you to dismiss any criticism if you just attack my personal character. I don't care about generational designations. There is no "Boomer". There is no "Millenial". There is no "Gen X". A generation is not a herd personality.

You write off their response as ageist, citing their reference to "old people" twice. Yet they also reference "many people" (not just old people) twice. Are you going to say it is ageist to complain about older people's unwillingness to adapt to new technology? Because it sure as hell plays out that way in actual life. Not all old people, but I have encountered way more people over the age of even say, 40 that are unwilling to learn how to use a computer than than under the age of 40.

Forgettable is 26, that puts him as probably a college graduate. He has written in the form of an introduction, a body, and a conclusion. He introduces it as having the tone of a rant, he fills it with points about "old people", and he concludes with a summarizing stereotype. And from that, after I clearly laid out a polite request that people avoid that kind of rant, you then think he is entitled to have me try to play counselor for him and coax out relevant information. What alternate reality Gen-OT have you been posting in? What effort did he show himself making to write a response that deserved any more than he got?

What effort does the poster owe you? you posed a short question, to which they gave a short response.

It's funny how you put their conclusion in bold, and then ignored it. If your biggest concern is people being open for change, your biggest resistance to this issue is older people. Things take time to become entrenched. The older a person is, usually the harder it is for them to change. This isn't a foreign concept. There have been many studies backing this up. Not tied to specific ideology or topic, but our general aversion to change. It's not a stereotype.

Let's look at my actual language: "That's pretty much exactly the post I was asking people to avoid. You told me what you think about Boomers -- thanks, I am one, I hear that plenty -- I'm a Boomer asking what the heck you younger types are interested in/concerned about when you aren't talking about Boomers. And I even tagged it with a emoji to show a friendlier emotional tone and followed up with an edit of the OP.

Your response is dismissive of everything they wrote, and does nothing to further the conversation. Put the entire onus on continuing the conversation on them with no effort on your part to try to understand what they wrote. But you used an emoji, so it's ok.

I wonder, do you think Forgettable did that? Did he bother to read what I asked for and write a clear reply on point? Or did he just fire off a rant about old people? Have you entered this discussion looking at both sides in a balanced way, or have you just picked your tribe and attacked what you see as the other? In doing so, are you perhaps trying to shout me down? Think about it.

I think they partly answered your question. Like with most communication however, we often don't fully understand questions and answers. Clarification is often needed. You didn't seek clarity to his response. You sought a different response, despite the answer you're looking for being in that response. Maybe you have expectations as a professor that you expect a university level report response, and not a casual Gen-OT response.

When the poster has has already clarified the topics they were concerned about, and you still keep complaining that it is just a rant about old people, it does call into question your willingness to have an honest conversation. Compounded by your repeated insinuations about my intentions, without even directly asking.

[Rennadrel]

It also depends on where they are from, in Canada and around where I live I see most of them are pretty level headed. Even my parents both being in their 60's soon have continued to change and accept things as they got older based on new information. Some people just are just not willing to change no matter what age.

Young or old, humanity tends to be stubborn, I've learned. I work with a lot of guys who are stubborn and stuck in their ways. I try and give people the time of day, even if I don't agree with them on things.

[shadowmouse]

To me, shutting down someone's response like you did without clarification is further encouraging a line or two of text in response.

Without clarification? I edited the OP and flagged "Edit" in colored text. I'm starting to get a sense for why the dismissal of younger people is often phrased as a complaint about entitlement.

I see it happening on the forums on almost a daily basis. Not everyone, but some.

We may not be reading the same forums then, because I sure don't. For clarification, note that I specifically referred to your model of a servile, service styled reply where you think I should try to coax out information.

Again, since we're now on the topic of generational perceptions -- entitlement. Let's look at his followup, after Endus pitched him a way to spin things: "Perhaps I've framed it in exactly the way you were not asking for, but if you flip everything I've said..."
No, I really shouldn't need to flip everything to find a meaning in someone's words, and he directly acknowledges that he framed his reply in exactly the way I had asked people to avoid. Right there, clearly, his words.

You write off their response as ageist, citing their reference to "old people" twice. Yet they also reference "many people" (not just old people) twice.

Disingenuous. That isn't how English is written, things like pronouns and general expressions refer back to other points in the writing. Sentences at the beginning of a paragraph signal content. Many people, without a qualifier such as "whatever their age" is placed in a context where it signals "many [old] people [and not just my parents]. That can be seen by they way that he always qualifies the phrase with "not just my parents".

Are you going to say it is ageist to complain about older people's unwillingness to adapt to new technology? Because it sure as hell plays out that way in actual life. Not all old people, but I have encountered way more people over the age of even say, 40 that are unwilling to learn how to use a computer than than under the age of 40.

You know what? I am. Look at what you've written, where the hell are you finding any significant number of people around the age of 40 that don't know how to use a computer? Why do you assume age is the reason, rather than education. I know far too many young women whose knowledge of how to use their computer is not much better than knowing where the power button is and how to click a limited number of icons. Were I to say that women don't know how to use computers, I would undoubtedly get called out for that kind of stereotype. When you do that using age instead, you too are using a negative stereotype. While you say it is just science, and not stereotype, that's one of the first resorts of bias.

It's funny how you put their conclusion in bold, and then ignored it.

And you wonder why I question your purpose in these posts. You are so determined to paint a particular image of me that fits your narrative that you make comments like that. Now look again at what I wrote: " He introduces it as having the tone of a rant, he fills it with points about "old people", and he concludes with a summarizing stereotype. How do you claim I didn't address it?

Maybe you only have narrow way of interpreting what people say.

Maybe, or maybe you should read some other posts in the thread and notice that other people have commented on Forgettable's post, and others yet have had no trouble writing clear, on point replies. To quote Bovinity Divinity (I see no reason to ping him with a proper quote) and his response to Endus: "Because it was less about the topic at hand and more, "Ok, Boomer, here's why we say Ok, Boomer."

What effort does the poster owe you? you posed a short question, to which they gave a short response.

First, make up your mind. Did they write a long and poignant response that I should have read like it was written by James Joyce and this a Lit class ("The poster in question actually took the time to write a paragraphs in response"), or did they give a short response to a short question that took up several paragraphs? Again, it is inconsistencies like this that make me feel you have a particular focus on making a point that mainly has to do with how you see older people.

Second, why do you assume I think I'm owed anything? He made a post, I replied -- and my reply was mainly a comment for the thread going forward. I expect most comments in a thread to be one shot, drop and leave exchanges. He made a reply, I responded, exchange completed.

Your response is dismissive of everything they wrote, and does nothing to further the conversation. Put the entire onus on continuing the conversation on them with no effort on your part to try to understand what they wrote. But you used an emoji, so it's ok.

Emoji, we use 'em over here. They're used to show the intended tone of a comment in an environment where you cannot see a person's face or hear their tone. I'm not his counselor, his parental issues aren't my business or concern. In his very own words, what he wrote wasn't what I asked for. When you write what someone asks you not to write, it doesn't invite a conversation in the least. It gets a nod and a smile. The "thanks for contributing"? Those were the close to the OP, where I wrote "Thanks!" Dismissive of everything he wrote? Only if you try to put a negative spin on it. It didn't give me anything useful for my intended purpose, so he gets a smile emoji and I move on.

I think they partly answered your question. Like with most communication however, we often don't fully understand questions and answers. Clarification is often needed. You didn't seek clarity to his response. You sought a different response, despite the answer you're looking for being in that response. Maybe you have expectations as a professor that you expect a university level report response, and not a casual Gen-OT response.

Again, please make up your mind. Are we tossing casual responses around on Gen-OT, something that I've pointed out several times? If so, he posted, I replied, no further exchange required. If you look at my edit: "in the alternate reality where I'm not shitposting on Gen-OT" That I mention I sometimes have a particular job in real life was in the specific context of explaining why I was asking and why I was looking for a particular kind of information. Nothing more. I get to be Shadowmouse on Gen-OT. I'm not wearing a tie, and depending on the weather and time of day I'm probably wearing pants. I am not grading a student essay [and asking me to flip everything written in an essay around to make sense of it would take a good chunk of points off if I were] and have no reason to engage in an extended dialogue to find his meaning.

@Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang Sorry for the late reply, typing out a response to the guy above gave me time to get enough coffee down to fend off the sleep disorder for a while. Now, let me get back to a couple of your points.

You mention honor killings. I'm familiar with the concept, although Wikipedia has unfortunately joined the ranks of things TGF blocks. Cross-culture communication, particularly in the context of international business is a fairly important side study for me. I got pulled into it in much the way Nisbett describes his own encounter with a student in "The Geography of Thought" and reading that was an early and significant influence on me. I haven't had the chance to read it, but I've liked his work and you might enjoy "Culture of Honor". Most of my reading has been along the lines of high and low context cultures, things like Hall and Nisbett. I like Lewis (The Lewis Model) for offering perception of time as another factor that helps explain differences further. I haven't had much reason to read up on honor as yet another factor to consider; it isn't because of a lack of interest, I'm just hamstrung by TGF right now and that makes it a project I'd have to really dig to follow up on instead of a casual read. Here's an article though: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...onor-and-shame

It is less prevalent here than in France, but as they are our neighbor and cross-border exchanges are very important , we do get exposed to a subset of the "youthful" population that seems immensely focused on respect, to the point that "respect" has become a common interjection in their language.

I have also noticed signs of something like this, particularly in France. If you get a chance to look at the linked article, and maybe even follow up on it a bit if it seems interesting, I'd like to hear your thoughts on how things go together. I won't be going to the Middle East proper, but I'll be starting over in an associated FSU country.

[PC2]

he concludes with a summarizing stereotype.

Oh right so technically speaking we shouldn't even really be judging generational cohorts since they're based on stereotypes and the only valid way to judge human beings is based on individual behavior. It kind of sucks though because often times we don't have a lot of choice except to use them for the sake of brevity. :s

[shadowmouse]

@PC2 Erm, you do realize that I've been objecting to generational stereotypes all along, right? Aside from painting with too broad a brush, experiences over a range of time are different in different regions. That was confirmed by @Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang, for example.

[PC2]

@PC2 Erm, you do realize that I've been objecting to generational stereotypes all along, right? Aside from painting with too broad a brush, experiences over a range of time are different in different regions. That was confirmed by @Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang, for example.

Yeah I understand but making a thread about them is kind of "asking for it", but I also understand that you're genuinely looking for information and constructive feedback, which is cool.

[shadowmouse]

Yeah I understand but making a thread about them is kind of "asking for it"

Serious question. Humor me, OK? Go back and read the OP, then quote the parts that make this a thread about generational stereotypes.

I'm of a particular age, the thread title is a nod to that and how feeling so acutely out of touch feels for me. I've asked, very broadly, for information that will help me get things across to people 40 years or more younger, because most here are at least closer than that in age. Different people here have taken different approaches, but several have pretty well nailed useful points in their posts. Since this was thrown out there as a bored during COVID-19 lockdowns thread, it was primarily intended to be a change up from things like a rerun of "do you like pineapple on your pizza" or something. If I'm going to ask a question, it had might as well be something that I have some interest in. I'm earlier to see the sun rise than most here, and it often leaves me posting a "Happy <holiday>" greeting. We have parents here, so I didn't do that for Mother's Day and just talked about this. I guess people's mothers got written off as Boomers though, I see nobody else bothered to give the holiday a nod.

[PC2]

Serious question. Humor me, OK? Go back and read the OP, then quote the parts that make this a thread about generational stereotypes.

No I think you misunderstand. A generational cohort is itself a stereotype because it's based on the idea that all individuals within an arbitrary age range share ideological and/or behavioural properties. So we shouldn't even be negatively judging any generational cohort unless every individual in that cohort is guilty of the bad ideology or behaviour.

[shadowmouse]

No I think you misunderstand.

I'll take that and run with it.

I generally agree with your other points, with the caveat that instead of "every individual" a preponderance is probably enough for general discussions to have some utility.

[PC2]

I'll take that and run with it.

I generally agree with your other points, with the caveat that instead of "every individual" a preponderance is probably enough for general discussions to have some utility.

Yes pragmatically speaking but it should be as close to 99% or 100% as possible in order to avoid collective judgement, which is unethical.

[Krastyn]

Without clarification? I edited the OP and flagged "Edit" in colored text. I'm starting to get a sense for why the dismissal of younger people is often phrased as a complaint about entitlement.

Did you tell him you edited your OP? No, you didn't. So where exactly did you clarify to them?

We may not be reading the same forums then, because I sure don't. For clarification, note that I specifically referred to your model of a servile, service styled reply where you think I should try to coax out information.

Well, then we just disagree on this point. I see it happen often here. I wouldn't call it the usual, but discussion is what you make of it.

Again, since we're now on the topic of generational perceptions -- entitlement. Let's look at his followup, after Endus pitched him a way to spin things: "Perhaps I've framed it in exactly the way you were not asking for, but if you flip everything I've said..."
No, I really shouldn't need to flip everything to find a meaning in someone's words, and he directly acknowledges that he framed his reply in exactly the way I had asked people to avoid. Right there, clearly, his words.

Context, is key. Notably, the last part of the paragraph you seemed to ignore "It's not intended to be an insult, but you must realize it's just very difficult to discuss the things I care about without also showcasing the people causing those problems - They're bound to be intertwined in the explanation."

Take Climate change. The issues he brings up are often downplayed / ignored by those older than him. More so the older they get.

Disingenuous. That isn't how English is written, things like pronouns and general expressions refer back to other points in the writing. Sentences at the beginning of a paragraph signal content. Many people, without a qualifier such as "whatever their age" is placed in a context where it signals "many [old] people [and not just my parents]. That can be seen by they way that he always qualifies the phrase with "not just my parents".

Can you show me the literary rule for the bold? As it's funny how you complain about how people on the forum often casually post, don't have real discussions, and yet your first instinct is to assume they're perfectly following whatever way you think it should mean, despite the fact that you later even state not everyone will see it that way.

You know what? I am. Look at what you've written, where the hell are you finding any significant number of people around the age of 40 that don't know how to use a computer? Why do you assume age is the reason, rather than education. I know far too many young women whose knowledge of how to use their computer is not much better than knowing where the power button is and how to click a limited number of icons. Were I to say that women don't know how to use computers, I would undoubtedly get called out for that kind of stereotype. When you do that using age instead, you too are using a negative stereotype. While you say it is just science, and not stereotype, that's one of the first resorts of bias.

I didn't say age was the only factor. It's definitely one of them though.

To quote from this report:

Adults who are not digitally literate are, on average, less educated, older, and more likely to be Black, Hispanic, or foreign born, compared to digitally literate adults.

So how again is that statement ageist?

And you wonder why I question your purpose in these posts. You are so determined to paint a particular image of me that fits your narrative that you make comments like that. Now look again at what I wrote: " He introduces it as having the tone of a rant, he fills it with points about "old people", and he concludes with a summarizing stereotype. How do you claim I didn't address it?

It's hilarious how you're accusing me trying to make something fit my narrative when that is the entire basis of your stance. You've made up your mind about what their intentions and stance were despite them telling you otherwise.

Maybe, or maybe you should read some other posts in the thread and notice that other people have commented on Forgettable's post, and others yet have had no trouble writing clear, on point replies. To quote Bovinity Divinity (I see no reason to ping him with a proper quote) and his response to Endus: "Because it was less about the topic at hand and more, "Ok, Boomer, here's why we say Ok, Boomer."

I've read several of the responses, and they're mixed. The only people who I can see that are specifically talking about Forgettable's posts are you, me, Endus, Bovinity, and Forgettable. Three of us understood where Forgettable was coming from, two did not. You still seem more upset that they didn't serve up a response in the perfect format you wanted.

First, make up your mind. Did they write a long and poignant response that I should have read like it was written by James Joyce and this a Lit class ("The poster in question actually took the time to write a paragraphs in response"), or did they give a short response to a short question that took up several paragraphs? Again, it is inconsistencies like this that make me feel you have a particular focus on making a point that mainly has to do with how you see older people.

They didn't write up a novel, but it was more than point form or one line response.

Do you have some sort of age complex? Everything goes back to I must be hating on you because you're old. I don't give a flying fuck about your age. For all I know you're a 22 year old woman living in Antarctica.

Second, why do you assume I think I'm owed anything? He made a post, I replied -- and my reply was mainly a comment for the thread going forward. I expect most comments in a thread to be one shot, drop and leave exchanges. He made a reply, I responded, exchange completed.

Because your responses come across that way.

Emoji, we use 'em over here. They're used to show the intended tone of a comment in an environment where you cannot see a person's face or hear their tone. I'm not his counselor, his parental issues aren't my business or concern. In his very own words, what he wrote wasn't what I asked for. When you write what someone asks you not to write, it doesn't invite a conversation in the least. It gets a nod and a smile. The "thanks for contributing"? Those were the close to the OP, where I wrote "Thanks!" Dismissive of everything he wrote? Only if you try to put a negative spin on it. It didn't give me anything useful for my intended purpose, so he gets a smile emoji and I move on.

You dismissed it before you even knew what he was saying. The closest they came to saying they did it that way was "Perhaps I've framed it in exactly the way you were not asking for, but if you flip everything I've said and don't consider it a personal attack on you/your age group, I think you'll find the answer you were looking for." You read this statement as they intentionally responded that way. I read it as him saying that maybe to you it seemed that way, but if you don't read it like a personal attack and look at it objectively, you can see the points he's concerned about. Like Endus did. Like I have.

Once again. It's hard not to take conversation where you don't want it to go when many of the concerns are directly linked to age.

Again, please make up your mind. Are we tossing casual responses around on Gen-OT, something that I've pointed out several times? If so, he posted, I replied, no further exchange required. If you look at my edit:

Talking about an edit that occurred after the post was made is completely, and totally worthless. It's irrelevant to their post.

I'll also point out another section of your OP:

That's an extra level of disconnect, so you may need to connect some dots for me to get a better understanding of your replies.

You clearly didn't understand their reply. So instead of asking for help to connect the dots that you couldn't (but others could) see, you blew them off. That seems to run counter to your initial ask.