Ion & Co. at it again

[LordVargK]

Honestly, the complaints about Tier Sets taking up slots came only up in Legion, where you had Tier Sets, your Artifact weapon AND Legiondaries, meaning 8 out of 15 slots were occupied with non regular gear. Especially the competition between Tier Sets and Legiondaries was a problem. That's why they removed Sets with BfA, cause as with the 3 Legiondaries, we had 3 Azerite slots reserved and the HoA replaced the Artifact Weapon. And as of 8.3 we have the Back. With Tier Sets that would occupy 9/15 slots.
Now, with Shadowland we have a problem:
They said that at the start of the expansion, you will only be able to wear one Legendary. That means, that this will be the only time in the history of WoW, where only 1 slot is occupied. Now, they also said, that they are looking at implementing tier sets later into SL. At this time, they will probably allow us to wear more than one Legendary.
That means, that Legendaries will once again compete with Tier Sets, making a later introduction problematic.
The most logical way of implementing Tier Sets (in the traditional way anyways) would be to have the first raids drop them and then have no Sets in later patches, where you get more legendaries. This would mean a more linear power growth, rather than the exponential one we experienced in Legion and with BfA.

Since they won't back down on their word, I would not expect to see Tier Sets this expansion, because it would create exactly the problems they want to avoid.

[Varodoc]

You missed my point entirely. Bringing Thrall back was not the same as bringing Illidan back. Thrall wasn't dead. Illidan was. Thrall was just off doing his own thing. So comparing the two made no sense at all. They could have brought Thrall back for any reason they wanted to, and the reason they did made perfect sense.

You are correct, though, that they are very likely going to do SOMETHING with Arthas.

I didnt compare them though? I just said they brought back Thrall (super popular character) in BfA after they brought back Illidan (another super popular character) in Legion. No reference to the way in which they were brought back.

[Kaver]

it's not a huge deal you get an upgrade that has different traits, you can still use the upgrade.

For most dps specs it's better to have a 465 pieces with the best traits than having 480 pieces without the best traits.

I'm not advocating for tier set, but I'm just saying that Azerite gear isn't good either. I cannot see what value Azerite gear adds to the game. If it gave new abilities or changed you gameplay in a significant way then I would maybe like it, but as it is now I would rather just have normal gear in the Head, Shoulder and Chest slot.

[HateTrain]

Because its totally Ion and Ion alone doing all of those things.

That's a bit disingenuous. Ion is the boss, if his teams can't/don't do something, or do something people end up disliking, he takes the heat, and should. He is the game director. It's HIS job to coordinate all of this stuff, and deliver the product. If something sucks, it's his problem.

[Recovery]

Because its totally Ion and Ion alone doing all of those things.

Ion Hazzikostas - Wow Game director.

He either commissions it directly or has a say in approval.

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And participation goes into the shitter and the feature gets abandoned. It's not going to see widespread play. It's meant to be an alternative to raiding so the rewards have to be competitive. It's not meant to be challenge modes from MoP, which was something you finished once for the rewards and then never touched again unless you were selling carries.

Good, let participation go down hill.. Im tired of farming the same dungeons for 2 years for gear thats 15 ilvl higher.

[wildcardNS]

Every time Ion talks about Blizz's "vision" for the game I realize that the game will never head back in the right direction aside from a few concessions here or there to people who miss the actual MMO aspects... like professions for instance.

Bring on TBC!

[Soluna]

Just finished reading the bullets from Ion's latest interview, and man I gotta say, besides the usual "we have no clue what we're doing, but we want to do this and that" stuff, I'm specifically dissapointed to read the 3 following things:

• Set bonuses are one of the reasons they pulled back on tier sets originally. They limited item diversity because certain slots were locked to tier sets.

What? Set items locking slots away? Hello BFA neck, cloack, helm, shoulder, chest?! I mean, sure you exchange a few azerites till you cash in on that specific one which nets you most power, but it was the same with set items as well, as there was mutliple ilvl iterations of each item.

• PvP stats are not returning. Itemization will remain like it is in Battle for Azeroth, with the inclusion of a PvP vendor to give players more choice of gear acquisition.

Why? Why force PvP players, who exclusively enjoy PvP, into farming PvE? Why allow PvE players to gain PvP power through NOT playing PvP? To me, this honestly is neither fair, nor logical. PvP players should have stronger PvP gear, and vice versa.

• Arthas is obviously SOMEWHERE in the Shadowlands, but they want to be respectful with the character. We will learn more about him and his true nature, but we most likely won't be adventuring or interacting much with him.

Say that again please, YOU don't want to whatnow?! Ion, I respect you for all your contributions to WoW, and the fact you have devoted such a bit part of your entire life to this game. You are obviously not doing it primarily for the money, but let's get one thing straight: WE pay your greedy AF company to create content that WE must enjoy. If the community wants more Arthas, then give them the hell more Arthas. What's the problem with that? His character's integrity? Illidan was pissed upon when nobody asked for him. Why not give us Arthas, now that we want him? And yeah, I know some of you out there will be like "NOOOOO" but I guarantee you if it's put through a vote, the majority of the community will want Arthas back.

You are a clear example of why blizz can never please everyone. So many ppl say 'they better not bring arthas back!' now you are like 'they better give arthas back!' like wtf is a dev supposed to do with this bullshit community?

Gotta admit that in some other aspects though, like classes in shadowlands, they've dropped the ball so hard, but for stupid things like these, the fanbase can only blame themselves.

[Mirishka]

That's a bit disingenuous. Ion is the boss, if his teams can't/don't do something, or do something people end up disliking, he takes the heat, and should. He is the game director. It's HIS job to coordinate all of this stuff, and deliver the product. If something sucks, it's his problem.

That's nonsense, just like it was nonsense when everyone came down on Ghostcrawler for every little thing they hated about WoW from BC-Mists. To this day there are still people directing personal attacks at him on Twitter because of WoW.

At the end of the day players will aim their REEEEEEing at whoever they decide is the 'face' of the thing that makes them mad. GC? Holinka? Ion? Doesn't matter.

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You are a clear example of why blizz can never please everyone. So many ppl say 'they better not bring arthas back!' now you are like 'they better give arthas back!' like wtf is a dev supposed to do with this bullshit community?

Gotta admit that in some other aspects though, like classes in shadowlands, they've dropped the ball so hard, but for stupid things like these, the fanbase can only blame themselves.

Amen. I just made the same point about the unpruning... you had people screeching about the removal of spells and now we have a bunch of topics whining about Blizz bringing those spells back.

Blizz should just tune out all the noise and make the game they want to make, because nothing they do is gonna please everyone.

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Every time Ion talks about Blizz's "vision" for the game I realize that the game will never head back in the right direction aside from a few concessions here or there to people who miss the actual MMO aspects... like professions for instance.

Bring on TBC!

Why shouldn't Blizz talk about their vision of the game? WoW is their game, not yours, and they don't need you or me or anyone else to sign off on what they do with it.

[HateTrain]

That's nonsense, just like it was nonsense when everyone came down on Ghostcrawler for every little thing they hated about WoW from BC-Mists. To this day there are still people directing personal attacks at him on Twitter because of WoW.

At the end of the day players will aim their REEEEEEing at whoever they decide is the 'face' of the thing that makes them mad. GC? Holinka? Ion? Doesn't matter.

Oh stop.

While the silly personal attacks are just that, silly. Personal attacks are dumb but the game getting criticized? Yes. He is the face of this. Whether or not you want to acknowledge it or not. While you can piss and moan all you want about WHAT they are giving him shit about, the fact that he is getting the shit directed at him is appropriate. He is the lead.

Does anyone really/publicly give any shit to the people JUST below Jeff Bezos? Who actually have a LOT of the decision making power? No. Everything is directed at the boss. The guy at the head. The person with the name you know.

[kaminaris]

For most dps specs it's better to have a 465 pieces with the best traits than having 480 pieces without the best traits.

I'm not advocating for tier set, but I'm just saying that Azerite gear isn't good either. I cannot see what value Azerite gear adds to the game. If it gave new abilities or changed you gameplay in a significant way then I would maybe like it, but as it is now I would rather just have normal gear in the Head, Shoulder and Chest slot.

False. Very very rarely 465 is better than 480. Assuming you have one bis trait on 480 piece there is almost zero chance 465 with both bis traits would be better.

[Angrie]

I've actually thought a bit about this. I'd really like to see Arthas lurking in the Shadowlands, obsessed with the idea of becoming the real and sole jailer, as he believes that's his ultimate destiny. Manipulating everybody that he can in order to have THY smith create another Frostmourne-like weapon for him. And when the time is right to strike and overthrow the jailer, thus creating big chaos and distrupting the balance of Shadowlands.

I mean, he doesn't have to get a redeption story. And I know that many don't want him to get any story at all, but the fact is: Arthas is a signature character tha many people love. Why not capitalize on that?

You don't know the story.
Arthas on his own was a good-hearted vigilante, who killed his people infected with the undead plague. Frostmourne and the Helm of Domination corrupted him into the lich king. If we see Arthas in Shadowlands, he'll be Arthas the Paladin of Lordaeron.

Imagine the Queen of England started killing off people cause of Covid 19. She's doing so for the good of the country. Then she hears Dave Chappelle say, "come over here and try this shit, it'll help you help your people." So she does an ungodly amount of PCP and no longer has control of her actions. That's Arthas. It's not the personality, it's the drugs/voices.

Arthas just needs an appearance, maybe a voice line or two. Nothing more. I think the interaction would likely be with Slyvannas, since you know, she hates him.

[wildcardNS]

Why shouldn't Blizz talk about their vision of the game? WoW is their game, not yours, and they don't need you or me or anyone else to sign off on what they do with it.

When did I ever say he/they shouldn't talk about their vision? What a blatant straw man. I merely stated my interpretation of their stated vision. You are not required to agree (nor do I care) with me and vice-versa.

[Mirishka]

Oh stop.

While the silly personal attacks are just that, silly. Personal attacks are dumb but the game getting criticized? Yes. He is the face of this. Whether or not you want to acknowledge it or not. While you can piss and moan all you want about WHAT they are giving him shit about, the fact that he is getting the shit directed at him is appropriate. He is the lead.

Does anyone really/publicly give any shit to the people JUST below Jeff Bezos? Who actually have a LOT of the decision making power? No. Everything is directed at the boss. The guy at the head. The person with the name you know.

You can waste as much of your time as you want replying, doesn't change the fact that most people on this forum don't have a clue how development on the scale of a game like WoW actually works. As evidenced daily by 'ION RUINED MY LIFE' topics like this one.

The term 'armchair designer' and all the irony that comes along with it exist for a reason.

[HateTrain]

You can waste as much of your time as you want replying, doesn't change the fact that most people on this forum don't have a clue how development on the scale of a game like WoW actually works. As evidenced daily by 'ION RUINED MY LIFE' topics like this one.

The term 'armchair designer' and all the irony that comes along with it exist for a reason.

Again, I don't give a shit what you think is appropriate or not to comment to him about. That's not the issue. The issue taken here is that you think addressing it to him is somehow misplaced. It is not.

[agentsi]

Just finished reading the bullets from Ion's latest interview, and man I gotta say, besides the usual "we have no clue what we're doing, but we want to do this and that" stuff, I'm specifically dissapointed to read the 3 following things:

• Set bonuses are one of the reasons they pulled back on tier sets originally. They limited item diversity because certain slots were locked to tier sets.

What? Set items locking slots away? Hello BFA neck, cloack, helm, shoulder, chest?! I mean, sure you exchange a few azerites till you cash in on that specific one which nets you most power, but it was the same with set items as well, as there was mutliple ilvl iterations of each item.

• PvP stats are not returning. Itemization will remain like it is in Battle for Azeroth, with the inclusion of a PvP vendor to give players more choice of gear acquisition.

Why? Why force PvP players, who exclusively enjoy PvP, into farming PvE? Why allow PvE players to gain PvP power through NOT playing PvP? To me, this honestly is neither fair, nor logical. PvP players should have stronger PvP gear, and vice versa.

• Arthas is obviously SOMEWHERE in the Shadowlands, but they want to be respectful with the character. We will learn more about him and his true nature, but we most likely won't be adventuring or interacting much with him.

Say that again please, YOU don't want to whatnow?! Ion, I respect you for all your contributions to WoW, and the fact you have devoted such a bit part of your entire life to this game. You are obviously not doing it primarily for the money, but let's get one thing straight: WE pay your greedy AF company to create content that WE must enjoy. If the community wants more Arthas, then give them the hell more Arthas. What's the problem with that? His character's integrity? Illidan was pissed upon when nobody asked for him. Why not give us Arthas, now that we want him? And yeah, I know some of you out there will be like "NOOOOO" but I guarantee you if it's put through a vote, the majority of the community will want Arthas back.

Took no time at all for the crybabies to show up.


Azerite gear over set pieces any day of the week. You have so many more options to play around with, instead of being stuck having to keep 4 pieces, even if WAY lower ilvl equiped to get the bonus. Which is why they werre gone. Folks were finishing mythic of the next tier, with previous set bonuses still equiped. Obviously something is wrong there.

The neck is a stat stick slot, never anything "cool" or unique to it, perfect slot for something like the heart of azeroth. Perfectly fine for the slots they chose imo.

And I think most don't want Arthas back. Illidan never died, and was always a key component in dealing with the Fel/Sargeras. It made sense, Arthas is literally dead, no need to beat that dead horse. He had his moment, it's gone. Get over it.

You can't cry about everything not being the way "YOU" want it, and expect people to take you seriously.

[Vyragosa]

Just finished reading the bullets from Ion's latest interview, and man I gotta say, besides the usual "we have no clue what we're doing, but we want to do this and that" stuff, I'm specifically dissapointed to read the 3 following things:

• Set bonuses are one of the reasons they pulled back on tier sets originally. They limited item diversity because certain slots were locked to tier sets.

What? Set items locking slots away? Hello BFA neck, cloack, helm, shoulder, chest?! I mean, sure you exchange a few azerites till you cash in on that specific one which nets you most power, but it was the same with set items as well, as there was mutliple ilvl iterations of each item.

• PvP stats are not returning. Itemization will remain like it is in Battle for Azeroth, with the inclusion of a PvP vendor to give players more choice of gear acquisition.

Why? Why force PvP players, who exclusively enjoy PvP, into farming PvE? Why allow PvE players to gain PvP power through NOT playing PvP? To me, this honestly is neither fair, nor logical. PvP players should have stronger PvP gear, and vice versa.

• Arthas is obviously SOMEWHERE in the Shadowlands, but they want to be respectful with the character. We will learn more about him and his true nature, but we most likely won't be adventuring or interacting much with him.

Say that again please, YOU don't want to whatnow?! Ion, I respect you for all your contributions to WoW, and the fact you have devoted such a bit part of your entire life to this game. You are obviously not doing it primarily for the money, but let's get one thing straight: WE pay your greedy AF company to create content that WE must enjoy. If the community wants more Arthas, then give them the hell more Arthas. What's the problem with that? His character's integrity? Illidan was pissed upon when nobody asked for him. Why not give us Arthas, now that we want him? And yeah, I know some of you out there will be like "NOOOOO" but I guarantee you if it's put through a vote, the majority of the community will want Arthas back.

lol @This post

Some movies are better left untouched with time. Same goes for some vilains in a game. A minor interaction is fine with me. Another story arc with him would destroy his character.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

So you're saying it takes a few swaps in your azerite slot before you get your bis azerite and forget about it? You mean, the exact same way of how set items used to function? Get item from this difficulty, then get it from the other one, and forget about it.

it’s in no way the same as tier sets as once you got any tier bonus you only used those same items where with azerite gear you would swap between items for different activities and you couldn’t just go to a normal raid to get bis effects in most cases then ignore the slot until you got the same item from a heroic raid and so on.

I wounldn't qualify getting PvP gear from PvE as "normal". And you're wrong, PvP does not net same quality as PvE gear, as various trinkets and other specific items are far more superior, and thus, force PvP players into PvE. As I said, that's not fair, and I don't believe that's how it should be. PvP players should have PvP gear for doing PvP, and that gear should be viable for PvP content (and the respective vice versa).

there is no pvp or pve gear show cases as of now there is no reason they can’t make a comparable gear climb and end goal from a pvp vender without pvp stats that goes for trinkets and weapons to as they could easily put BIS ones on a vender locked behind a good amount of pvp.

And yeah, to you and @Everybody else touching on this one: I was aware some of you would pull the "there's no we when there's more more than one opinion" card, but it just so happens I'm quite actively reading the forum and have my own (personal of course) observations. So if you'd like - make the experiment. Post a poll and we can talk again in a week.

Why would I post a poll for a point you want to prove and I don’t really care about? If you want to make a poll to see what the vocal minority’s think go ahead.

[Makabreska]

Lol there's no way they aren't doing something big with Arthas, when they brought back Illidan in Legion and Thrall in BfA.

They brought back Illidan, because they did him a disservice in BC, and Thrall did jack shit in BfA. Meanwhile, Arthas story has been closed nicely, which they acknowledged in the interviews.

[Varodoc]

They brought back Illidan, because they did him a disservice in BC, and Thrall did jack shit in BfA. Meanwhile, Arthas story has been closed nicely, which they acknowledged in the interviews.

They brought back Illidan and Thrall because they are super popular characters, it's simple.

[bloomy]

what even are these complaints? wait for the game to come out, give it an honest shot... AND THEN COMPLAIN, if the game is bad enough to warrant it.

the changes they are making are due to overwhelming feedback from players, so i hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you are in the minority with your complaints.