LFR should TEACH players to become better raiders.

[Deadite]

Excellent! Then you disagree with OP's bullshit proposal to tuck awards for people like me into content for people like you. We're on the same side!

*highfive*

Yip. It never works out.

*highfive*

[Bigbazz]

What makes you think it is an exception? What makes you think it is even a rule? That's the problem with your argument. Nothing you said is an actual fact. It's just your own misguided opinion that is based on incomplete/inaccurate information.

Because LFR is largely made up of well geared raiders boosting peoples alts and complete noobs, you can be sure every time you do LFR you are grouped with many players who are experiencing the content for the first, and last time. Your rant about guilds disbanding really shows you have personal grievances that are purely your own, and your experience about going to LFR to learn the fights is something you alone are talking about.

Your whole post is just your personal experience and you're expecting people to take that as relevant when they are talking about the playerbase as a whole? People don't give a fuck about being better in LFR, the kind of players that LFR caters to are players who have been playing WoW for 15 years and are still completely terrible at it, or players who resubbed last week and are just jumping in to do LFR once to complete their quest.

[chiddie]

LFR is not supposed to bridge any gap between anything.

It’s supposed to make people with close to no time or no will to raid seriously see the raid itself and thus “follow the story”.

[DemonHunter18]

my experience with LFR is not that good.

in Legion it was so-so but in BfA???

holy moly, people miss some brain cells xd

[Chumahki]

None of your proposals TEACH anyone anything. In my opinion, LFR should have a DBM-on-steroids type system built in that tells people what to do. That would actually teach them. It should be a guided, tutorial type of system. So once you complete the LFR, or at least after a few times, you know the basics of the mechanics and the fights. LFR would go much more smoothly and it would be easier for people to transition into Normals. Not everyone needs that kind of hand-holding, obviously, but those people would move beyond LFR quickly or never even go into LFR.

[the0o]

Thank you all for your input. I like some of the ideas being throw around. Here are some of the more common responses :

1. No, LFR is fine
2. LFR players dont want to improve and do more difficult content
3. Raiders in LFR would be toxic
4. iF YoU dOnT LiKe iT, ThEn DoNt dO iT
5. More "chores" isnt a good idea
6. LFR is WOW's most popular content and messing with it would cause backlashes in other areas
7. your ideas suck
8. sToP tAlKiNg aBoUt lFr, tHiS iS tOpIc #4581111

[Seranthor]

Thank you all for your input. I like some of the ideas being throw around. Here are some of the more common responses :

1. No, LFR is fine
2. LFR players dont want to improve and do more difficult content
3. Raiders in LFR would be toxic
4. iF YoU dOnT LiKe iT, ThEn DoNt dO iT
5. More "chores" isnt a good idea
6. LFR is WOW's most popular content and messing with it would cause backlashes in other areas
7. your ideas suck
8. sToP tAlKiNg aBoUt lFr, tHiS iS tOpIc #4581111

You missed the guy that asked how much of the raid budget are you willing to forfeit to see your idea come to fruition.

[Elias01]

Nah, leave LFR alone. LFR is the best thing that ever happened to actual raiding. The super casuals get to see the content, this allows Blizzard to allocate more resources to the content, this makes the content better for those of us that raid higher content.

And thats kinda problem isnt it? Give playerbase easy acess to raiding content completly removed all desire too do raiding content and even to extend to see content becouse process of experiencing content trought LFR simply isnt fun. It become chore. Instead of being potencialy excited to stand infront of Lady Vash or Grull people now go trought this slog just to finish wow content than quit game for rest of tier.

Also since content become more and more acessible in order to try retain players becouse you know things like LFR and LFG actualy decrese players retantion and play time Blizzard was forced to create new ways to progress our characters like essences, ap grinds and artifacts. Those systems exist becouse content itself could no longer retain players becouse game become too acessible.

[the0o]

You missed the guy that asked how much of the raid budget are you willing to forfeit to see your idea come to fruition.

I missed your comment, I will add in in the next update

[Gasparde]

People don't wanna learn. Like, people with an actual willingness to improve and learn stuff in a game are fucking rare. Most people indeed just want to pull the lever and get shiny pop-ups congratulating them on being super awesome and here's your reward. Investing resources into trying to teach people how to play at a serious level is just wasted. The people who want to get their will get their without Blizzard's help, the people who don't wanna get there won't get there anyways.

[Elias01]

Win/Win?

So you want to force people to do proving grounds and fill up their screen with annoying pop ups. Then worst of all you want to have a bunch of arrogant wankers to join in and put them in charge? Every time there is some toxic ass hole in LFR he is some prima donna 'real raider' with his heroic gear moaning at everyone and everything. Yeah no thanks. If you don't like LFR then jog on. There is no reason for anyone to do LFR that don't want to do it.

- - - Updated - - -



Remove the most popular and therefore best form of raiding? Yeah never gonna happen.

Its populat becouse its path of least resistance no becouse its fun.

[Easyclassictopkeklel]

why dude. just why do people open those thread? whyyyyy?

[alturic]

I thought it's absurd there are people who don't want to improve at the game, but after trying Guild Wars 2 I had no idea how commonplace this mentality of not wanting to improve can be, and how much of a contentious issue raiding and challenging content in an MMO is for some.
The GW2 community has been divided for years between the vast majority of open world players who don't know how to play their class/follow mechanics, and a small handful of raiders who play the game well and want a challenge out of the game. The latter group is so small that raids are no longer even developed because not enough people even bother raiding, even though GW2 raids are probably the easiest raids out of all the more popular MMOs. People who ask for more challenging content in GW2 are usually told to try a different game or leave by the people who don't raid because 'GW2 is the MMO for casuals'.

Arenanet (developers of GW2) have stated before that the average GW2 player's DPS is 2-3k, and for perspective, benchmarks place DPS specs at around 35k. The average DPS of a GW2 player is literally just autoattacking. I feel like playing GW2 has given me perspective on how good WoW and its players actually have it. At least raids are still being developed and at least most players know how to do decent levels of DPS/HPS with their class. Encounter logging and DPS meters have always promoted player potential to improve and made it accessible to many.

LFR is of course an odd case considering it was used as a justification to continue making raids in WoW. I've seen people waste hours in LFR yet they can't be bothered to create a group for normal because they 'don't have the time'. That's not saying there are not lots of people who also start in LFR and then work their way up to the higher difficulties.

Oh, I have absolutely no problem with people wanting to scrub it up. It's when you want to stay scrubbin' when playing with others that's a problem to me.

[Powerogue]

It kind of already does.
-scaling damage/healing buff encouraging persisting through wipes
-boss abilities can be more easily healed through and are often more clearly telegraphed. Not just "Boss is casting Giant Rock" but "Boss is casting Giant Rock - Run Away!" followed by "You were hit by the giant rock! Run away next time!" None of this is addons.
-every single boss has easy peasy icons you can click on on the map to read all the boss's tactics, including a TL;DR that's often enough to at least not die phase 1.

The only reason LFR doesn't teach players to become better raiders is players refusing to learn from their mistakes when Blizzard does everything in their power to help them through that process.

[Dundebuns]

They nerfed the colour/tone game in TBC on the ogre plateaus during TBC. They gave up on educating players to be better players then.

[Relapses]

No.

Also, no.

[BeepBoo]

You missed the guy that asked how much of the raid budget are you willing to forfeit to see your idea come to fruition.

None, wow is under-delivering content for how much money they're raking in. They make way more profit than most game companies that deliver this level of effort. I don't care that they want wow to be a cash cow for the rest of their games. The value of wow is garbage.

[Drusin]

I've seen people waste hours in LFR yet they can't be bothered to create a group for normal because they 'don't have the time'. That's not saying there are not lots of people who also start in LFR and then work their way up to the higher difficulties.

But the entry into normal raids requires a time investment as well, whereas the entry into LFR takes just reaching some incredibly low ilvl. I can't just show up to a normal raid in my benthic gear with 1 essence (the first you get) and not expect to be kicked.

[lappee]

LFR should just be removed, people who want to do the quests can do so in Normal difficulty (and if its too hard, just get better at the game. Literally nothing is stopping one from being good enough for normal)

Currently LFR's only purpose is to feed gear for afk characters.

[Eapoe]

Blizzard didn’t design LFR to teach people. They designed it to let people without skill and/or time to still see all of the content. If you want something to teach people how to play then you need to petition Blizzard to make a “proving grounds” style of raid content for people, not change what they’ve already made.