Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[Grimbold21]

History looks very fondly of those who sit around handwringing and moralizing.

They do more harm to a just cause which makes them an incredibly effective tool for police to use to delegitimize a group. So be a bit more supportive and leave the handwringing to those who who dont care about black lives or police brutality.

My support is there. And you just add to my point. You need to care and focus on this precisely for that reason. Not only because it allows the police to do so, but it triggers a gut reaction from the larger audience that leads them to misrepresent the protests, which risk being seen through the actions of the looters.

If stuff like this suddenly means you stop caring then you were looking for excuses to not care.

You say you care about violence and bigotry but I've seen you sit on the fence when it causes harm to do so.

And you insist on conflating this focus with a lack of care. If anything it inflates my negative emotions, for the aforementioned reasons. The cause is undermined or hijacked by the actions of looters.

And you speak of caring. Do truly believe that looters care about the situations that have lead them to their action? Is the quick acquisition of material wealth how you show your care and support for the injustice that a community faces?

If the answer is yes, then I suppose, yes, we fundamentally disagree.

[Elegiac]

My support is there. And you just add to my point. You need to care and focus on this precisely for that reason. Not only because it allows the police to do so, but it triggers a gut reaction from the larger audience that leads them to misrepresent the protests, which risk being seen through the actions of the looters.

"People should behave themselves or others might decide to be racist" is not the winning argument you think it is, bub.

Again; peaceful protest has been tried. The response is always the same, because there is no proper form of protest against something that is not seen as an issue.

Do you know what is a hell of a lot more concerning than a store window getting broken? Peaceful demonstrators being violently denied their rights.

Your concern, however, is exclusively on the former. "But this person got shot", "but this store got robbed". The clownery. Fucking lol.

[wunksta]

I am not politicizing it. I am just pointing out hypocrisy of media. Innocent person dies and you get all kinds of outrage. An innocent cop dies, and a black one at that, you get nothing but crickets. Innocent Black people being murdered is wrong and people should to be outraged about it. But it is hypocritical to show no outrage of an innocent black man dying simply because he once wore the uniform. Outrage should be universal over ALL deaths.

Probably because everyone knows it's against the law and the violator will get sentenced for murder. Only cops have been getting away with murder.

[Yadryonych]

Imho the police should be guarding stores not standing in the streets in a single file...

Honestly though, store owners should be guarding them armed as well

[Egomaniac]

Are you a boogaloo boy?

He's just really aching for a Second Civil War

[Endus]

I mean a bunch of professional sports players peacefully took a knee during sporting events and the same people pearl clutching and whinging and moaning about the violence now (not necessarily here, but in the public media) were the same people whinging and moaning about that peaceful protest and how inappropriate it was then.

Because to these people, there is no way to properly protest. The only way to properly protest is to shut the fuck up and accept your lot in life, even if that lot in life is living in near constant fear that law enforcement can murder you over a fixit ticket or a bad check/bill.

That's not fair. They think a proper protest is the kind that's silent and invisible and thus does not infringe upon their experience of the world in any way. The moment you so infringe, it's "the wrong kind of protest".

When the entire point of protest, as a concept, is to so infringe. To make life difficult and uncomfortable and annoying for those not a part of that protest. That's literally the point of the entire concept, and how it functions.

And when you don't make changes because of the annoying kneeling during anthems and hashtags you falsely claim to be "racist against whites", when you ignore those protests and condemn those daring to annoy you, that's how you get riots. You closed your eyes and ears to the cries about injustice, because you accept and endorse that injustice, and challenging it is a challenge to your stability.

Because you are the problem. You're not the victim, you're the people causing the issue in the first place. You should be uncomfortable. You should have to adapt and change. And if you won't, well, that's when violence comes in.

Because they've been asking you nicely for decades, and your response is pretty universally, "Fuck off, I don't care". Snub people suffering injustice long enough, and they're gonna stop taking your petty abuses, and start to return them. And that's why there are riots.

[Muzjhath]

And what is that 60% supposed to do? Any action they take will instantly be labeld as "police brutality". They are not apathetic. They are in fear. Everyone calls them names, demonizes than and attacks every single move, but not one of you have actually said what they should be doing about the roiting and lotting and real protests. What do you specifically want them to do?

They are supposed to kick the 35% of horrible cops put of the police. Chargd them with the crimes they committed and make sure they get the harshest punishment possible.

[Edge-]

My support is there. And you just add to my point. You need to care and focus on this precisely for that reason. Not only because it allows the police to do so, but it triggers a gut reaction from the larger audience that leads them to misrepresent the protests, which risk being seen through the actions of the looters.

Not in the fucking slightest, because they're being actively fed racist misinformation by conservative media.

https://www.foxla.com/news/good-sama...lleged-looters

Black good Samaritans helped flag down police to get them to chase off looters at a store, where the white men who owned it were armed. Cops proceeded to begin arresting the good Samaritans despite both the store owner and the local reporter live on the scene repeatedly telling them that these people were not looters and were trying to help protect the store.

Bad cops, good Samaritans, right?

Not so fast!

https://www.syracuse.com/celebrity-n...izes-buzz.html

Fox News selectively edited the video to hide the police being repeatedly told by the reporter and others that these were not looters, pleading to let them go, in order to portray the police in a good light.

Violence doesn't matter, because anything can and will be framed by these media as negative against the protesters and supportive of police, and their audiences will uncritically believe that.

[Endus]

Tbf nobody is gonna believe racism is over in the US as long as the White House isnt on fire.

I mean, we torched it for you in 1815, but that didn't end racism in the USA. So . . .

[Edge-]

https://twitter.com/gbrew24/status/1268241785022750720

So we know who all those "law enforcement officers" are who refuse to identify themselves.

They're apparently from the Bureau of Prisons, appearing to act as Barr's personal police force. Who are they accountable to? Barr only? What's the chain of command? How do you report them for abuses? What legal authority do they have to operate in these areas?

Want to know how you start a violent confrontation? This is a pretty good fucking start.

[Grimbold21]

Which is partially why you do not get the issue. Your seen to have view of a formalised police department as a good thing that should get the benefit of the doubt, which is amusing considering you want to lambast me for ignoring historical context.

"ACAB" and similar sentiments do not exist because people hate police 'for reasons'. Nor is branding the institution of police wicked in any way comparable to generalised statements about people for their race, because one is an elective profession.

Again, you keep underlining your opposition to violence without the understanding that in many cases the enforcement of order, or the system itself, are forms of violence.

But they don't count because they aren't sufficiently spectacular in the exact sense of the term, or are levied against people society deems undesirable and thus deserving of maltreatment.

And if my brief interpretation of your posts is safe, you seem to want to tear said institution down??

But I've acknowledged the validity of feelings of revolt. But in your framing there's no room other than to feel repulsion towards the institution of police. I'm not sure if I agree with the statement of choice, you'd have to expand a bit further on that. Regardless, I would think that generalizations would be something we'd wish to avoid.
Again, I've already agreed that the American police force has quite the number of rotten apples, at least to the extent that a foreigner uses media coverage as the measure of that situation. But am I willing to condemn the entirety of it based on that? At best, based on that incomplete perception, I'd concede to you that the remainder of the police force needs to do better.

No is arguing for the precise targeting of certain communities.

I don't think that I voiced my support for the employment of order through violence. I think it's a given that it unfortunately may or often turns violent. Isn't that what we're being outraged about? The excessive use of violence?

[Edge-]

https://www.local10.com/news/local/2...cases-on-file/

71 complaints for excessive use of force, and he's till on the job.

This is what people are protesting against. If I had 71 complaints of anything at my job, I wouldn't have a job. I wouldn't even have 71 complaints, because I would have had my ass fired before it hit double digits.

This is what bad cops being protected both by "good cops" and the entire corrupt institution of policing looks like. This is why people are mad, because racist, violent fucks like this officer remain employed and protected.

[Endus]

Not quite the same.

The british were doing it so they could keep being the bad guys

For trying to find a way to get you yanks to fuck off and stop invading colonies that don't want you?

The War of 1812 was entirely due to American aggression and imperialism. The Brits (and particularly Canada) were the sovereign nation you invaded to swing your freedom dicks around.

It's not really fair complaining when we use your freedom balls as a speed sack and tell you to go home.

[Grimbold21]

Not in the fucking slightest, because they're being actively fed racist misinformation by conservative media.

https://www.foxla.com/news/good-sama...lleged-looters

Black good Samaritans helped flag down police to get them to chase off looters at a store, where the white men who owned it were armed. Cops proceeded to begin arresting the good Samaritans despite both the store owner and the local reporter live on the scene repeatedly telling them that these people were not looters and were trying to help protect the store.

Bad cops, good Samaritans, right?

Not so fast!

https://www.syracuse.com/celebrity-n...izes-buzz.html

Fox News selectively edited the video to hide the police being repeatedly told by the reporter and others that these were not looters, pleading to let them go, in order to portray the police in a good light.

Violence doesn't matter, because anything can and will be framed by these media as negative against the protesters and supportive of police, and their audiences will uncritically believe that.

I'm not entirely sure which point of mine you're arguing agaisnt, as in the post I didn't mention media manipulation. Then again, I'm sure that's plenty of that.

But were you trying to suggest that all acts of looting are just disingenuous misrepresentations on part of biased media?

[Grimbold21]

Show that you care then you coward. Commit. Instead of going "aw looters bad" say cops are using agent provocateurs to incite police responses.

Your whole approach to this has "bad faith" red flags.

Let me guess dont consider yourself racist because you dont see colour.

I'm gonna try to be fair here and suggest that you make such unfounded accusations because the only posts of mine you're reading are my replies to you.

So, whereas I could accuse of bad faith too, I'm say instead you're ignorant, cause I already mentioned that disapprove and it disgusts me that the police employs such tactics.

But, let me guess, you're so embroiled in your own outrage and biases, that whatever I say will not be enough until I stand on par with you. Or do I assume incorrectly?

[Elegiac]

I mean, we torched it for you in 1815, but that didn't end racism in the USA. So . . .

Um, you're half a decade late for the bicentennial. *taps watch*

We're waiting, Canada.

[Elegiac]

https://twitter.com/gbrew24/status/1268241785022750720

So we know who all those "law enforcement officers" are who refuse to identify themselves.

They're apparently from the Bureau of Prisons, appearing to act as Barr's personal police force. Who are they accountable to? Barr only? What's the chain of command? How do you report them for abuses? What legal authority do they have to operate in these areas?

Want to know how you start a violent confrontation? This is a pretty good fucking start.

Oh, I was wrong. ICE isn't the Gestapo, this is the actual Gestapo.

[Coolthulhu]

Yeah, if you now start ignoring what I write in the posts it's better to stop this right here, it's offtopic anyway.

Saw this coming from miles away. I addressed every single point you tried to make. Who has a habit of weaseling away, huh?

i dont know how much LN is changed, surely, they "dropped" the open southern hate (and this is still making trouble between their older voter) but frankly i dont find any difference about immigrants. the bullshit they say now is the same that they said since i have memory (so since middle of the 90s). maybe its because they took the MSI/AN route and officially say bullshit in a enough vague way, but its clear that they still swim in the racist propaganda.
and im not saying that iwobi is a puppet, probably he believe what he says, even my boss that is peruvian as my father is openly fascist and speak about salvini as an amateur. that doesnt change the fact that they have trust in a racist party.

and casapound against the cops? lol? this is the first time i hear this. i have even a friend with his sister in the Trento's casapound and never heard any bad word against cops from her (unlike all the anarchists i know that use acab as commas) or any customer of her bar, a well know fascist den where i live.
then i didnt say that the police (and other forces) are fascist, but that they have a big problem of fascism. im not generalizing, but its a fact that the police in italy attract a lot of sympatizer, there was even a reportage about police's private chat groups full of mussolini citations and whatever some time ago (or policemen managing fascist pages on facebook, i dont rememeber so well).
or even the uneven investigations during the 70s between the red and black terrorisms.
i mean, fascists demonstrator always are so proud about their "politeness" during demonstration (even when they are litterally inciting a lynch against roms entering in public houses)....

AN has been gone in like forever, the MSI even more so, so I have no idea where were you aiming at there. Salvini's stance has always been aimed at crippling illegal immigration and the human traffickers who profit from it, not all immigration from certain countries à la Trump - as well as requesting the EU to revise the Dublin Convention (and for good reason, Italy was drowning in debt already, so much so that it couldn't sustain millions of Italians leaving in literal poverty. I see no racism in that. Nor do I see

CasaPound is known for illegally occupying buildings, disregarding LE directives when organizing protests and clashing with them, and even threatening LE with the prospect of "bloodbaths" (sic). The police doesn't like that. CasaPound doesn't like the police. Your friends' sisters might keep her ideas to herself, or might not have anything against the police herself, but her personal experience doesn't really account for much.

As to chat groups, sure, there are bound to be fascist cells in the police. And there are bound to be neo-BR cells within the anarcho-communists. And there are bound - oh wait, that's not a hypothetical, there are chat groups where magistrates were literally caught saying "Salvini did nothing wrong, but we have to go after him for political reasons". Truly a bad moment to bring chat groups into the discussion. Palamara & associates send their worried regards.

[Endus]

Um, you're half a decade late for the bicentennial. *taps watch*

We're waiting, Canada.

Hey, you know how major stars like Justin Bieber, Ryan Reynolds, Ryan Gosling, Seth Rogen are Canadian? But also, living in the USA and taking over your entertainment?

The invasion is coming from inside your house.

[Grimbold21]

Itll be enough when you pay more than lip service and dont immediately turn around and taint it. It's not a competition. Its about doing something.

Should I just pretend I've never seen you post here before?

Correct my interpretation if you will.

In your view are all my condemnations less valuable because I criticize looting? Is that what frames me as doing nothing but "paying lip service"?

Is my opposition to police violence and racism less honest because I also stand agaisnt indiscriminate looting?