Now that we have a lot more info on Shadowlands are you feeling better about it?

[Jastall]

Picked "still not convinced" but my true feeling is probably between that and looking good- cautiously optimistic would be the word. To get the bad out of way, I'm very much not convinced that Covenants will be a success mechanics-wise when too much is tied to such an irreversible choice, in a game where players have had min-maxing beaten into them for 15 years by both Blizzard and the community. I'm also not sold on the premise of the main story, I just hope the plot isn't some Sylvanas wank-fest about how life is pain and all that morally grey jazz, and they shouldn't fuck too much with Scourge lore as well.

But I like covenants as a story and role-playing tool, I like the class changes as a whole, I like Torghast, I like the high fantasy vibe, I actually like that they're trying to do more with returning characters like Kael and Ysera, I like what we've seen of the reward structure thus far, I like the new racial customizations, and my word do some of these transmogs look cool as fuck.

Blizzard have also been unusually responsive to feedback during the Alpha; the Torments change being only the latest example of them listening to feedback. This gives me hope that their design process has changed to be more flexible and able to switch direction more quickly. If nothing else I'm much more optimistic about it than I was for BFA.

[Newjinsei]

I think it’s definitely going in the right direction, but has a long way to go to achieve what I wish to see.

WoW, if well managed and designed, can be made truly evergreen and enjoyable by all types and ages and at any time period.

Until then I’m Not convinced yet.

[TanukiW]

I think it looks really good except for one thing, the aoecap. I have really enjoyed m+ since it came out but if the dungeons isnt designed in a way that it never makes sense to only pull 5 or less mobs because of any other reason than that we simply cant deal damage to it i probably wont do more m+ than the weekly 15 or whatever is the max keystone for best loot.

[Palapop]

I still hope they will remove Covenant abilities. + "honor system"

other than that- I'm ok with it so far.

[DemonDays]

Because I know what I want. Don't get me wrong, Shadowlands will not make the game what I have always wished it to be. But it will make a step towards making it closer to that, so much more than any previous expansion has managed to. I am patient and when you're patient, the important part isn't the delivery of THIS expansion or THAT but the general PHILOSOPHY behind it. As long as they keep making attempts at bringing it closer to where I wish it to be (and I say this well aware that WoW will never be the game I have been wishing it to be for 14 years now), I shall remain crazy excited ^^

I guess if you were satisfied with the bad gameplay in BfA you'll be hyped about the slightly improved gameplay in Shadowlands.

For me - it still doesn't look good enough. Most specs still play awfully and I'm just fucking tired of so many Rental systems being added on top to "fix" things. Bringing back a few random abilities has done nothing to alleviate that.


Covenants look like a fucking disaster too.

[Shinrael]

I guess if you were satisfied with the bad gameplay in BfA you'll be hyped about the slightly improved gameplay in Shadowlands.

For me - it still doesn't look good enough. Most specs still play awfully and I'm just fucking tired of so many Rental systems being added on top to "fix" things. Bringing back a few random abilities has done nothing to alleviate that.


Covenants look like a fucking disaster too.

A kind reminder that your "bad" is a very subjective thing. That said, I have my issues with the gameplay but to me, the gameplay of WoW has always been bad :P Only time ever where I actually enjoyed the power progression curve was in Vanilla. Because it was random, because it was unbalanced, it promoted exploration. Trying out different things that often didn't make sense but were either really cool or actually ended up being really strong for whatever reason. Everything has been very systemized ever since TBC. Plate is Str, Leather is Agi, Fire is Fire only and Retri is Melee. Torghast seems like it will be very random with lots of different builds and synergies that you can opt for and you will be encouraged to try new things. You can play it solo and you will only be required to do X floors each week for your progression and from then on it's just for your own fun, which means that once you're done with your weekly chores, no addon, scoreboard or mythic elitist is going to tell you "You can't do that" or "you must build this". It's a much more complex issue and a much more complex solution, my comment simplifies it a lot, but I just wanted to give an example.

What you consider a "Bad" gameplay expansion is to me... just another "bad" gameplay expansion. Because it never had the kind of gameplay I wanted in the first place. The only expansions which have had content like that are MoP (Vault of the Thunder King scenario and Timeless Isle), Legion (Suramar campaign + Mage tower), BFA (Mechagon and Horrific Visions) and now Shadowlands (Torghast and supposedly the Maw zone). So out of 8 expansions only 4 have had the kind of gameplay I enjoy and BFA was one of them. And some people would come and shove TBC or WotLK in my face and tell me how good expansions they were compared to BFA. And they are free to have those opinions. I absolutely enjoyed each of these 8 expansions, each in a different way. It doesn't have to be for one single reason, you know? Just because most people are shackled to gameplay and numbers, doesn't mean that I can't enjoy TBC for it's ambience, WotLK for it's story, MoP for it's theme and music, WoD for the art improvements, Legion for the artifact/class fantasies, BFA for the level scaling and heritage armors, Shadowlands for its gameplay (Torghast).

While I agree that most specs aren't very fun, I will also say that your concept of "fun" is different from mine in that regards too, most likely. There are classes which people absolutely enjoy and I despise because they are so convoluted and don't feel as fluid as other classes. As to the rental systems.... your point would have been so very true.. if we were talking about a 2 year old game. WoW is 15 years old. You have two options: either keep adding things on top of each other or.... have rental systems. And while you might dislike rental systems, some people dislike convoluted/clumsy systems. There is also the option of horizontal progression but that TOO has it's problems. Just because you don't have the experience and understanding to acknowledge them, doesn't mean they aren't there. You aren't being reasonable and rather just acting like a spoiled person.

[LemonDemonGirl]

I guess? I'll admit that I'm a little pissed on what they're trying to do with Bwonsamdi, and the weird multiple realm dungeon De Other Side.
Also the retcons

[Yuli]

Love the retcons.

Gameplay-wise. I'm hyped for Torghast, because it seems to actually live up to my expectations. Well, okay, it's moving there.
Zones look awesome, core-system-updates like customization and leveling look awesome.
I'm just hoping that
a) Torghast will be developed as a new M+ (in terms of permanency and adaptability to new expansions)
-> And I can't demand that this early in Alpha. We still need to wait for Beta/Release, but I hope then they'll have the guts to support it.
b) There's enough stuff to do
-> Don't get me wrong. Torghast is awesome. Mythic+ and Raids usually don't catch me on their own. I really liked stuff like the mage tower, brawler's guild (when it was fresh and not 70% recycled) and long-ass quest chains like we had in Legion (I'm a lore nerd). If there's only 4 covenant campaigns and Torghast for my main, my altoholic/lore-greedy/hardcore-solo needs will not be satisfied. I hope they'll have something in store for players like me and my guild.

So...I'm positive. I'm looking for more...but I'm much more positive than at this point in BfA's Alpha.

[JohnyCge]

Carefully interested.
Torghast is looking good.
Customization looks good.
Armor design is great.
Covenants are mixed bag, but I'm not optimistic about their abilities. Can already see mandatory choices from here if I'm gonna do mythic raiding this exp.
Nothing on pvp.
Covenant design feels generic. Generic fawns, angels, vampires and so on. Yet story seems promising.
Class design looks meh at best. Almost no changes on my main(have some root gameplay problems that were reported at legion alpha and not fixed), and meh new abilities on my 2nd main/alt.
Not pre-order material for sure, but I was more pessimistic about exp at reveal.

[thilicen]

To see Blizzard actively responding to and fixing issues the testers / players are flagging is giving me hope.

[Gasparde]

Nope.

Somewhat listening to the 4+ year old pleas of some classes is neat, but it's not gonna get me hard.
And until they do away with their silly obsession for game ruining Covenant restrictions they expansion is still gonna be shit for me.

Covenants will be shit in their current iteration. Just as shit as Legendaries, Azerite, Essences and Corruptions. Covenants are where they have to prove that they are truly listening. If they're not listening where it matters, if they haven't learned from the most serious offenders, then just fuck right off.

[The Emperor]

Theres an immeasurable gap between the options you've given. I dont think its terrible, i just think its bland. Theres nothing new there/intriguing except for maybe char customisation. Still voted terrible though.

[McNeil]

Still optimistic. This expansion feels rather small than what we're used to which I also felt when WoD was announced (having no new class or race really hurts). I do like most of what I've seen but I'm not gonna spoil myself into playing the alpha as it would just ruin the experience for me. Torghast seems like a huge improvement over Visions at least but I wish they would have gotten more features that require group play, I would've liked to see an improved version of warfronts and make it feel like a proper grand scale assault instead. I like all the extra customisation options so far and I hope they will give plenty to every race. Not a fan of the lore so far and I hope Sylvanas can just f*** off already, kinda tired that WoW still fails to make proper new characters so they just continue milking WC3 characters instead.

Hype level isn't high as of yet but I don't expect a whole lot from Blizzard these days. At this point I just appreciate if they can make an expansion that is not as bad as BFA, so at least do away with some of BFA's flaws which is seemingly what they are trying to do like making loot feel like loot again and moving away from AP grinds. The dungeons and raids need to improve badly aswell, they all felt underwhelming to me in BFA.

[Nayami]

Looks good overall but I won't be convinced until I finally see some class changes. Hopefully, we'll see some rounds on class changes when they release legendaries for testing and hoping for them to go through some of those dead talent rows at least, on most classes I play I barely change around two talents.

The expansion could be loads of fun but it will still feel like shit if your classes feel like shit to play.

[cface]

I guess if you were satisfied with the bad gameplay in BfA you'll be hyped about the slightly improved gameplay in Shadowlands.

For me - it still doesn't look good enough. Most specs still play awfully and I'm just fucking tired of so many Rental systems being added on top to "fix" things. Bringing back a few random abilities has done nothing to alleviate that.


Covenants look like a fucking disaster too.

This sums up exactly how I feel about shadowlands, and only a slight improved gameplay will not lure me back. If I could turn back time, I would never set foot in BFA at all, it's actually a regret I have, but like TVshows, once you've seen a season, it's kinda hard to just completely stop.

This time around, I wanna see how the first season goes, and jump in if it gets praised and binge play the game without timegating from hell. I would also know which specs blizzard abandoned this time around, and which got destroyed by nerfhammer

[plz delete account]

I think its shaping up to be great. All the zones look good, dungeon art looks good. Classes while not amazing seem a good bit better. Less rng. No titanforing or replacement system. Letting gear be gear is great. I look forward to the BIS list again. Castle Natharia raid environment looks amazing. Covenants look actually fun and meaningful. I was worried about the imbalance, but they said they would be willing to just let us choose our abilities if it doesnt work out, so im not worried anymore.

We haven't seen Torghast in action, but from the art and abilities, it looks very promising. Even the new mission table looks more interesting.

Are you feeling more positive about Shadowlands now that we have a ton more info, or do you still have a lot of concerns?

"we haven't seen torghast in action"

...It's been playable on the alpha for like a month. @towelliee am I wrong?

[Osmeric]

I don't think they have the budget anymore to produce a good expansion.

[Melore]

"we haven't seen torghast in action"

...It's been playable on the alpha for like a month. @towelliee am I wrong?

You're not wrong, Torghast was first available on the 15th or 16th of April or so, but that is after the date on this post you quoted.

[Alanar]

I think its shaping up to be great. All the zones look good, dungeon art looks good. Classes while not amazing seem a good bit better. Less rng. No titanforing or replacement system. Letting gear be gear is great. I look forward to the BIS list again. Castle Natharia raid environment looks amazing. Covenants look actually fun and meaningful. I was worried about the imbalance, but they said they would be willing to just let us choose our abilities if it doesnt work out, so im not worried anymore.

We haven't seen Torghast in action, but from the art and abilities, it looks very promising. Even the new mission table looks more interesting.

Are you feeling more positive about Shadowlands now that we have a ton more info, or do you still have a lot of concerns?

I am actually realy concerned about classes...

With all the stuff that they need to adress in all these telent rows of classes... Idk dont want to be negative in this positive thread, but classes right now are in a bad shape. Classes like paladin, might feel bit more complete, but nothing changed for most and are stuck with a cookie cutter build, because if you pick something else the class will be unplayable.

I am concerned, bfa also failed in making classes fun.

- - - Updated - - -

I think it looks really good except for one thing, the aoecap. I have really enjoyed m+ since it came out but if the dungeons isnt designed in a way that it never makes sense to only pull 5 or less mobs because of any other reason than that we simply cant deal damage to it i probably wont do more m+ than the weekly 15 or whatever is the max keystone for best loot.

Imo one of the last things you should honestly worry about. Every class get this, you will addapt without even knowing it.

- - - Updated - - -

+ PvP vendors are back
+ Torghast looks promising


- No big classes changes
- Abilities still locked behind Azerite-like mindless grind
- Ap coming back

Still not convinced.

I dont get it.. I see people praise class changes and unpruning.. but lets be real, almost nothing changed??

When they were talking about unpruning.. dude I was like yes!! Spectral guise back, devouring plague back. Nope I got mind soothe back.

There isnt much new stuff or anything in terms of classes to be excited about sadly. The covenant abillities are just headache material atm.

[dunkl]

I like that they are doing customization but I still want more/thought it'd be more. Maybe they add more during expansions(s). I don't mean to sound selfish

My races are tauren, pandaren, undead, goblin, nightborne and vulpera (and I'd be worgen if they had tails), but I don't feel they're giving all the races as much as I'd hoped; grease stained/smudged skin for goblins, singed hair for goblins, new tauren mane with some braids mixed in it, feathers, beads and dream catcher hanging from tauren horns, the undead options are good but there's not many, pandaren are like my favorite but have almost nothing yet, I suggest chunky beaded necklaces and bracelets for monks specifically

class-specific customization would be great too; antlers and silver eyes for night elf druids, warlock wings, uniquely patterned and colored feathers for hunters, thick beads for monks, etc. Just a couple of class cosmetics to go along with our character creation. maybe make them unlockable via quests, achievement, profession, so that they come with specific fond memories attached to them, giving your toon's appearance a connection to their experiences, which creates immersion and fun and is a true rpg element.

Thank you! Hope everyone is well!