Arms rotation question

[Boddhi]

Hey there, i am trying to play some Arms and i wonder:

Should Mortal Strike be delayed until Overpower has buffed it?

Most times i got at least one Overpower stack (active buff) when Mortal Strike comes off cooldown, but sometimes not and i wonder if i in this case just should spam Slam in hope of Overpower CD to reset or should i just cast an unbuffed Mortal Strike?

[Gestopft]

Nah don't delay it. You need to keep Deep Wounds up anyway. You do, however, drop it entirely once you get to Execute range under most circumstances.

[LazyCoding]

You can get instant answers for these kind of questions on Arms Discord.
But no you don't delay MS for Overpower buff. Because it is too lame buff. I even do the opposite: delay Overpower if there is 1-2 sec cooldown on MS so that I can beneift from CD reduction from Striking the Anvil trait. There is a risk to lose an Overpower charge this way but seriosly noone cares about these things in BFA arms. It is all about ToM playstyle.

[Segus1992]

Nah don't delay it. You need to keep Deep Wounds up anyway. You do, however, drop it entirely once you get to Execute range under most circumstances.

It's a real shame that Arms Warrior has become nothing more than a DoT spec. Getting a stronger Mortal Strike pales in comparison to keeping a DoT up.

[LazyCoding]

It's a real shame that Arms Warrior has become nothing more than a DoT spec. Getting a stronger Mortal Strike pales in comparison to keeping a DoT up.

Yep I am afraid that is what Arms is right now. A DW tick is bigger than buffed MS right now. Even ToM window is mostly for bigger DW ticks. As there is nothing different we can do in that window anyways. It is just more haste for bigger ToM window so that DW thicks harder.

[ISCL]

I actually find it quite rewarding albeit easy. I wouldnt mind seeing rend become baseline with some sort of interaction with DW or another of our abilities. Maybe even rework DW to have a similar functionality as ignite allowing you to increase it.

[nocturnus]

How anyway can play arms without falling asleep is beyond me. It has to be the most boring spec in game.

[Redlikemyrage]

I actually find it quite rewarding albeit easy. I wouldnt mind seeing rend become baseline with some sort of interaction with DW or another of our abilities. Maybe even rework DW to have a similar functionality as ignite allowing you to increase it.

To be fair I believe high haste build favors rend talent on single target. At least that’s what happened today when I dropped a few new expedients on my gear. Sims suddenly shot Rend up as best for the tier (barring short fights and massacre) for pure single target. I’d have to run more sims on two targets to see if it beats FoB, but my guy says no. Currently at work on my phone though so I can’t check atm.

[Gotural]

To be fair I believe high haste build favors rend talent on single target. At least that’s what happened today when I dropped a few new expedients on my gear. Sims suddenly shot Rend up as best for the tier (barring short fights and massacre) for pure single target. I’d have to run more sims on two targets to see if it beats FoB, but my guy says no. Currently at work on my phone though so I can’t check atm.

Maybe with so much haste you can reach the GCD cap of 0.75 secs during CS? The main goal of FoB is to let you spend your rage faster during CS windows to improve your ToM but if you already spend so much rage that the cooldown of CS goes down really fast thanks to Anger Management, the value of FoB should go down a little bit. I'm not sure.

[Redlikemyrage]

Maybe with so much haste you can reach the GCD cap of 0.75 secs during CS? The main goal of FoB is to let you spend your rage faster during CS windows to improve your ToM but if you already spend so much rage that the cooldown of CS goes down really fast thanks to Anger Management, the value of FoB should go down a little bit. I'm not sure.

I believe you still rage dump with WW during CS even running Rend. The entire goal being to set up huge ToM, minimal loss losing WW during smash is more than made up for in the 10 extra rage per cast. I’m sitting at 56% unbuffed haste. And that’s low compared to others, I’m behind on socket farm.

Edit: I realize we were more talking two target fights with FoB vs. Rend. However keeping it up during SS is a non issue, and I think you’d have to manually reapply once between SS CD. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s still better. I’ll have to dig into it further.

[BicycleMafioso]

How anyway can play arms without falling asleep is beyond me. It has to be the most boring spec in game.

That is interesting. Can you share why you feel like that is? To me, things like Striking the Anvil makes a big difference. I never look at numbers, and the playstyle feels fluid, dynamic and it never grows stale due to mentioned procc-based game style.
If I had looked at numbers and seen myself keeping up a DoT and my other choices mattering less, then yeah, maybe. But I only look and feel what I actually do and that makes it one of the most fun and engaging playstyles. I wanted to dislike it, but I didn't.

The one problem for me with Arms, is the solo game play. Being a DoT-spec rather than "2H smash" (which the play style implies), it makes questing for the Alliance Campaign a hassle. I am at 463 iLevel now and I don't... one-shot the things I'm expecting to one-shot. I think I am a Retribution Paladin with Templar's Verdict, but I am an Unholy DK with a setup-and-rot, which belies how it actually feels to play it.


Fury, to me, is far more of a snooze fest since it pretends to be a dynamic and fluid playstyle, but the rotation feels rather static to me. At least in the build I'd prefer having, since I prefer playstyle over numerical superiority. I also wanted to love Destruction, but it's a very Infernal-centric playstyle, and I hate using cooldowns.

[nocturnus]

That is interesting. Can you share why you feel like that is? To me, things like Striking the Anvil makes a big difference. I never look at numbers, and the playstyle feels fluid, dynamic and it never grows stale due to mentioned procc-based game style.
If I had looked at numbers and seen myself keeping up a DoT and my other choices mattering less, then yeah, maybe. But I only look and feel what I actually do and that makes it one of the most fun and engaging playstyles. I wanted to dislike it, but I didn't.

The one problem for me with Arms, is the solo game play. Being a DoT-spec rather than "2H smash" (which the play style implies), it makes questing for the Alliance Campaign a hassle. I am at 463 iLevel now and I don't... one-shot the things I'm expecting to one-shot. I think I am a Retribution Paladin with Templar's Verdict, but I am an Unholy DK with a setup-and-rot, which belies how it actually feels to play it.


Fury, to me, is far more of a snooze fest since it pretends to be a dynamic and fluid playstyle, but the rotation feels rather static to me. At least in the build I'd prefer having, since I prefer playstyle over numerical superiority. I also wanted to love Destruction, but it's a very Infernal-centric playstyle, and I hate using cooldowns.

Agree about the cooldown thing; they're boring.

What I don't like about arms is that feeling of perpetual rage starvation.

[EyeOculus]

With enough haste you'll never really have haste issues.
Also currently running around with +81% haste from all sources. Could be that.

[Bigbazz]

Agree about the cooldown thing; they're boring.

What I don't like about arms is that feeling of perpetual rage starvation.

You only get that by playing poorly though, and it disappears when you play the spec enough that you're always going for the correct ability instinctively... Example is not spamming MS at 0 rage because you know you won't have rage for it and instantly going for an OP or Skullbreaker. Or not spamming whirlwind when you're below a rage threshold, knowing how much rage you will have after a charge/CS and being aware of the swing timer.

I mean it's a newbie problem because you're causing your own rage starvation and then you're suffering even more with bad dps. If you play properly for the most part you never feel starved, and with high haste you're swimming in rage a lot. If you just came from Fury which has no empty GCD's and cannot rage starve then if you don't adjust your logic you're just going to screw yourself imediately.

I think Arms is more fun than Fury, less mindless and rage actually has a function.

[Topornic]

You only get that by playing poorly though, and it disappears when you play the spec enough that you're always going for the correct ability instinctively... Example is not spamming MS at 0 rage because you know you won't have rage for it and instantly going for an OP or Skullbreaker. Or not spamming whirlwind when you're below a rage threshold, knowing how much rage you will have after a charge/CS and being aware of the swing timer.

I mean it's a newbie problem because you're causing your own rage starvation and then you're suffering even more with bad dps. If you play properly for the most part you never feel starved, and with high haste you're swimming in rage a lot. If you just came from Fury which has no empty GCD's and cannot rage starve then if you don't adjust your logic you're just going to screw yourself imediately.

I think Arms is more fun than Fury, less mindless and rage actually has a function.

I have just switched back to Arms this week from Fury and I have to say that Fury shredder mode is way funnier - you are BLASTING that goddamn mob with rage wielding two big ass weapons. For me Arms would have to focus more on huge mortal strikes every now and then to be fun but right now it's just spam it whenever you can and the numbers popping up aren't amazing.
While I am still fairly low on haste (52% unbuffed) and need one more expedient enchantment (to apply 3, so that I reach corruption threshold replacing TD on Devastation's Hour) it wouldn't make my strikes hit that much harder, instead just being a little faster but still nowhere close to fury's speed.

IMO ToM gameplay sucks balls and forcing players to actually buff MS with Overpower for big d numbers would be way cooler. Right now OP is just a filler whenever low on rage and has 0% fun included.

[Bigbazz]

I have just switched back to Arms this week from Fury and I have to say that Fury shredder mode is way funnier - you are BLASTING that goddamn mob with rage wielding two big ass weapons. For me Arms would have to focus more on huge mortal strikes every now and then to be fun but right now it's just spam it whenever you can and the numbers popping up aren't amazing.
While I am still fairly low on haste (52% unbuffed) and need one more expedient enchantment (to apply 3, so that I reach corruption threshold replacing TD on Devastation's Hour) it wouldn't make my strikes hit that much harder, instead just being a little faster but still nowhere close to fury's speed.

IMO ToM gameplay sucks balls and forcing players to actually buff MS with Overpower for big d numbers would be way cooler. Right now OP is just a filler whenever low on rage and has 0% fun included.

52% unbuffed is more haste than I have, I returned to the game at some point last month, but i'm up to 468 equipped about 49% unbuffed haste, I got a lucky cache drop 475 weapon and I put Expedient on it + I had time to farm echoes for expedient so I bought 7 of them. I only replaced a TD3 ring this week when I was able to switch over to pure haste.

Fury is just mash buttons and dump rage and that can be fun because it's always flowing and your movement speed is higher, it has no real choke points unless you have a bad habit of pressing Rampage when it's not available. Arms only has a choke point if you ignore your rage income, since 1 too many WW will delay your MS and then it will feel bad, but if you're paying attention it will flow really well most of the time, even without extreme levels of Haste. I don't think rage starvation is a real problem for anyone who is playing properly.

But I'm enjoying Arms, it's not the best version but bleeding everything to death and melting massive packs alive with Bladestorm is satisfying, the last time Arms was about bleeds was in MOP and I think that was maybe the best Arms has ever been, so a bleed based spec can work well. On the other hand Arms in WOD pre HFC was all about big MS and then the Execute (though you still had rend it didn't scale with mastery) and that was really bland.

Legion Arms was better though, but then most specs were better in Legion.

[MrMatticus]

Now, being at 72% base haste, arms feels better than fury ever did during BFA.

[Chonar]

Arms rotation question

Internal or medial rotation of the arm represents the movement of the humerus when an arm flexed to 90° at the elbow is internally rotated around the longitudinal plane of the humerus such that the hand moves towards the midline of the body. The degree of rotation is dependent on the degree of abduction at the shoulder. In adduction internal rotation can be up to 70°. As the arm is abducted this increases towards 95°. It is the opposite of arm external rotation.

[Azzurri]

Do you ever use Overpower twice in a row to get 2 stacks if MS is on CD?

Or is is OP-MS-WW/OP if procs?

[LazyCoding]

Do you ever use Overpower twice in a row to get 2 stacks if MS is on CD?

Or is is OP-MS-WW/OP if procs?

Just manage your rage. OP doesn't matter. OP buff doesn't matter.