On ‘Strasserism’ and the Decay of the Left

[Elegiac]

No, Endus got it completely wrong. I didn't want to post here until I saw your post praising his blatant misrepresentation. OP's quote focuses on class split in the left, not other kinds.

OP megaquote summary as I see it: (yes I've read the whole thing)
--- 8< ---
"I'm a pro-worker leftist from Sweden. After I used Marxist analysis on The Left itself (more on that in next paragraph), which is a blasphemy and sin in The Left's eyes, I've been targeted by "cancel culture", called a racist despite my father being an immigrant from Central Africa, and a Strasserite, which is ironic in itself, but also a smear used originally by Nazis.

My main point is, the left has two halves with incompatible goals, and the rift has grown so big that leftists have to choose which half's goals they want to accomplish, it's impossible to do both anymore. One half is the working class, the original left's beneficiaries. The other half is "Professional Managerial Class" or PMC, middle-class children who "finished college with good marks" but now are facing downward mobility, forced to work at Starbucks and such, becoming a part of the working class, a future they despise.

The PMC-led Left's goal is not to better living conditions of the working class, but to ensure the PMC themselves don't sink into it; hence creation of endless useless managerial positions whose only true goal is proliferation of the PMC and certainly not help to the working class.

But don't worry, the new pro-worker Left is coming and I'm a part of it, and if the PMC is our enemy, so be it."
--- 8< ---

My own take on why Strasserite smear is ironic: Strasser brothers were the Socialists of the original National Social party. Gregor was killed by the Hitlerite faction in their 1934 purge of the party, Otto fled Germany in 1933 and lived in emigration. Arguably, Nazi party stopped being Socialist when Strasserites were removed. So, Strasserite smear means "the original Socialist". The half-African Swede is indeed the original, pro-worker, leftist being denounced by his middle-class, champagne socialist, comrades.

Endus's summary for comparison:

No Endus, he does not self-identify as a Nazi sympathizer. Usually you make intelligent posts despite your biases, but this time you were clearly emotional and hurt by the truth. If the choice becomes inevitable, will you choose to maintain your position in the bourgeoisie, or to somewhat improve lives of the proletariat at the price of you personally and your children becoming them, forever losing the middle-class status?


P.S. Theodarzna is probably LOL'ing at most of replies to the half-African Swedish pro-worker leftist's article: nazi sympathizer! alt-right! neo-nazi! trump! white supremacy! trumpist! trumpster! trumpsters!
... is it really true? Is being pro-worker a right-wing trumpster position now?

Mmmno. But being a white supremacist, on the other hand, is perfectly in line with that classification.

Which is what is being dog whistled with a lot of these “pro worker” arguments.

[Machismo]

No, Endus got it completely wrong. I didn't want to post here until I saw your post praising his blatant misrepresentation. OP's quote focuses on class split in the left, not other kinds.

OP megaquote summary as I see it: (yes I've read the whole thing)
--- 8< ---
"I'm a pro-worker leftist from Sweden. After I used Marxist analysis on The Left itself (more on that in next paragraph), which is a blasphemy and sin in The Left's eyes, I've been targeted by "cancel culture", called a racist despite my father being an immigrant from Central Africa, and a Strasserite, which is ironic in itself, but also a smear used originally by Nazis.

My main point is, the left has two halves with incompatible goals, and the rift has grown so big that leftists have to choose which half's goals they want to accomplish, it's impossible to do both anymore. One half is the working class, the original left's beneficiaries. The other half is "Professional Managerial Class" or PMC, middle-class children who "finished college with good marks" but now are facing downward mobility, forced to work at Starbucks and such, becoming a part of the working class, a future they despise.

The PMC-led Left's goal is not to better living conditions of the working class, but to ensure the PMC themselves don't sink into it; hence creation of endless useless managerial positions whose only true goal is proliferation of the PMC and certainly not help to the working class.

But don't worry, the new pro-worker Left is coming and I'm a part of it, and if the PMC is our enemy, so be it."
--- 8< ---

My own take on why Strasserite smear is ironic: Strasser brothers were the Socialists of the original National Social party. Gregor was killed by the Hitlerite faction in their 1934 purge of the party, Otto fled Germany in 1933 and lived in emigration. Arguably, Nazi party stopped being Socialist when Strasserites were removed. So, Strasserite smear means "the original Socialist". The half-African Swede is indeed the original, pro-worker, leftist being denounced by his middle-class, champagne socialist, comrades.

Endus's summary for comparison:

No Endus, he does not self-identify as a Nazi sympathizer. Usually you make intelligent posts despite your biases, but this time you were clearly emotional and hurt by the truth. If the choice becomes inevitable, will you choose to maintain your position in the bourgeoisie, or to somewhat improve lives of the proletariat at the price of you personally and your children becoming them, forever losing the middle-class status?


P.S. Theodarzna is probably LOL'ing at most of replies to the half-African Swedish pro-worker leftist's article: nazi sympathizer! alt-right! neo-nazi! trump! white supremacy! trumpist! trumpster! trumpsters!
... is it really true? Is being pro-worker a right-wing trumpster position now?

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Absolutely not. Inmates in solitary jail have equality but not liberty. People in CHAZ have liberty but not equality.

She's pushing ethno-nationalism... which has long been a thing of alt-righters and certain other groups.

[Zan15]

The left keep mocking Trump.

Without realising they got outsmarted by him and lost to him.

That's some self defeating mentality right there.

The left as a collective are pretty dumb.

lol outsmarted by taking advantage of a broken system. grats now look where we are thanks to someone who was not qualifed to be president, figuring out how to game the system.

Something to be proud of.


that and you really don't understand the difference between mocking and actually holding him accountable for all the fuck up failures he is responsible for

[Howel]

Feel free to sight the source, furthermore, the point is that they should be paid to live a good life. Further, the idea that foreign people of a different ethnicity or something are fit to serve in this quasi-underclass as you characterize it, is kind of sickening. Also, farm work exists in all countries. It isn't as if Mexico is a land of wild nomads.

They are being paid to live a good life, when they can be asked to take the job. They just don't.
For them it is an enrichment, that they wouldn't be able to achieve at home, doing anything remotely closely to it. Calling it an quasi-underclass, is your own machination, not mine.
And in Mexico, they are also not glorious or rich. It almost like we are seeing a certain trend...

Why is a farmhand unworthy of glory and enrichment?

Because that's a reality that we have acknowledge for the better part of the last 5000 years. Feel free to kiss the ground which upon they walk (I know you won't). Feel free to send a hundred dollars to a farm hand every single time you buy groceries (I know you won't). Feel free to start the farm hand enrichment party (I know you won't).

It is a natural thing, agriculture is a shit industry, and the people who work there will never be perceived any differently. And any idealistic view of them, ends there; no one that has ever proclaimed to love and respect them, would ever take over their job until it was the very last one on earth.
"Thank you for your service. Now piss off, you smell of manure".

[Theodarzna]

No, Endus got it completely wrong. I didn't want to post here until I saw your post praising his blatant misrepresentation. OP's quote focuses on class split in the left, not other kinds.

OP megaquote summary as I see it: (yes I've read the whole thing)
--- 8< ---
"I'm a pro-worker leftist from Sweden. After I used Marxist analysis on The Left itself (more on that in next paragraph), which is a blasphemy and sin in The Left's eyes, I've been targeted by "cancel culture", called a racist despite my father being an immigrant from Central Africa, and a Strasserite, which is ironic in itself, but also a smear used originally by Nazis.

My main point is, the left has two halves with incompatible goals, and the rift has grown so big that leftists have to choose which half's goals they want to accomplish, it's impossible to do both anymore. One half is the working class, the original left's beneficiaries. The other half is "Professional Managerial Class" or PMC, middle-class children who "finished college with good marks" but now are facing downward mobility, forced to work at Starbucks and such, becoming a part of the working class, a future they despise.

The PMC-led Left's goal is not to better living conditions of the working class, but to ensure the PMC themselves don't sink into it; hence creation of endless useless managerial positions whose only true goal is proliferation of the PMC and certainly not help to the working class.

But don't worry, the new pro-worker Left is coming and I'm a part of it, and if the PMC is our enemy, so be it."
--- 8< ---

My own take on why Strasserite smear is ironic: Strasser brothers were the Socialists of the original National Social party. Gregor was killed by the Hitlerite faction in their 1934 purge of the party, Otto fled Germany in 1933 and lived in emigration. Arguably, Nazi party stopped being Socialist when Strasserites were removed. So, Strasserite smear means "the original Socialist". The half-African Swede is indeed the original, pro-worker, leftist being denounced by his middle-class, champagne socialist, comrades.

Endus's summary for comparison:

No Endus, he does not self-identify as a Nazi sympathizer. Usually you make intelligent posts despite your biases, but this time you were clearly emotional and hurt by the truth. If the choice becomes inevitable, will you choose to maintain your position in the bourgeoisie, or to somewhat improve lives of the proletariat at the price of you personally and your children becoming them, forever losing the middle-class status?


P.S. Theodarzna is probably LOL'ing at most of replies to the half-African Swedish pro-worker leftist's article: nazi sympathizer! alt-right! neo-nazi! trump! white supremacy! trumpist! trumpster! trumpsters!
... is it really true? Is being pro-worker a right-wing trumpster position now?

First, hello and thank you for reading the post.

Second, yes this is, I would say, a fair reading of the entire article by Malcolm Kyeyune. His position is essentially the best distillation I've read of the situation politically concerning what can broadly be called the Left. For all the different factions ultimately it can be distilled to a P.M.C oriented faction of frustrated precarious P.M.C's, and their desperate fight for power and status, and then whatever withered husk remains of the Working Class faction which none of the P.M.C's want around. The cleavage between the Working Class and Professional Managerial Class is the core source of contradictions. A point with which I agree with Malcolm.

Third, I am amused by the reactions to this post, but not surprised but you are right, I am at least entertained.

[Endus]

No Endus, he does not self-identify as a Nazi sympathizer. Usually you make intelligent posts despite your biases, but this time you were clearly emotional and hurt by the truth.

He literally states that he is himself a Strasserite. His words regarding Strasserites; "we exist".

The Strassers were members of the Nazi Party.

So, yeah. He does.

If the choice becomes inevitable, will you choose to maintain your position in the bourgeoisie, or to somewhat improve lives of the proletariat at the price of you personally and your children becoming them, forever losing the middle-class status?

"When push comes to shove, will you beat your wife to death, or let her beat you to death?"

Why would those be the only two options? It's a dishonest framing that's begging the question and presuming facts not in evidence. The author's just flatly wrong about the idea that one can only be concerned about the prosperity and interests of one's own class. That's a description of the author's selfishness and lack of empathy; it is not a universal truism in any respect whatsoever.

At least, I presume it's projection. The alternative is that he knows it isn't even true of himself, and thus he's deliberately lying about his basic premises in some weird propaganda effort. I'll suggest that presuming it's projection is the kinder option.

P.S. Theodarzna is probably LOL'ing at most of replies to the half-African Swedish pro-worker leftist's article: nazi sympathizer! alt-right! neo-nazi! trump! white supremacy! trumpist! trumpster! trumpsters!
... is it really true? Is being pro-worker a right-wing trumpster position now?

Seriously, dude, I didn't call him a Nazi. I pointed out he was admitting he was a Nazi.

Pretty big goddamned difference, there.

And I really don't see the point in quibbling over what particular flavor of Nazi he was. Sure, the Strassers were among those targeted in the Night of the Long Knives. But that doesn't mean they were good people. Still Nazis. As in "card-carrying members of the Nazi Party and some of the major thinkers involved in guiding that Party's ideology".

I do not think anything he was discussing here was particularly Nazi-adjacent. I thought it was really fucking weird that he was pulling out the Strassers and admitting to being a follower of theirs. So I highlit that admission. That's it.

[Theodarzna]

They are being paid to live a good life, when they can be asked to take the job. They just don't.
For them it is an enrichment, that they wouldn't be able to achieve at home, doing anything remotely closely to it. Calling it an quasi-underclass, is your own machination, not mine.
And in Mexico, they are also not glorious or rich. It almost like we are seeing a certain trend...

Because that's a reality that we have acknowledge for the better part of the last 5000 years. Feel free to kiss the ground which upon they walk (I know you won't). Feel free to send a hundred dollars to a farm hand every single time you buy groceries (I know you won't). Feel free to start the farm hand enrichment party (I know you won't).

It is a natural thing, agriculture is a shit industry, and the people who work there will never be perceived any differently. And any idealistic view of them, ends there; no one that has ever proclaimed to love and respect them, would ever take over their job until it was the very last one on earth.
"Thank you for your service. Now piss off, you smell of manure".

You are the one suggesting these jobs don't deserve glory and enrichment.

Invoking nature and the natural order is rather surprisingly conservative and essentialist in this respect. Why on Earth shouldn't a farmhand expect to lead an enriched, fulfilled and dignified life, remains an open question. Your invocation of what amounts to "That is just how things are" doesn't actually answer the WHY question.

[Elegiac]

They are being paid to live a good life, when they can be asked to take the job. They just don't.
For them it is an enrichment, that they wouldn't be able to achieve at home, doing anything remotely closely to it. Calling it an quasi-underclass, is your own machination, not mine.
And in Mexico, they are also not glorious or rich. It almost like we are seeing a certain trend...

Because that's a reality that we have acknowledge for the better part of the last 5000 years. Feel free to kiss the ground which upon they walk (I know you won't). Feel free to send a hundred dollars to a farm hand every single time you buy groceries (I know you won't). Feel free to start the farm hand enrichment party (I know you won't).

It is a natural thing, agriculture is a shit industry, and the people who work there will never be perceived any differently. And any idealistic view of them, ends there; no one that has ever proclaimed to love and respect them, would ever take over their job until it was the very last one on earth.
"Thank you for your service. Now piss off, you smell of manure".

I do want to add a corollary to this.

Agriculture of sufficient scale to sustain relatively large urban communities is such a shit industry that we've been inventing increasingly novel ways of forcing people to do it for free (or near enough) for, as you said, well over the past five millennia. You can't have a class struggle if society isn't capable of sustaining strata.

Which then begs the question...why are all these supposedly pro-worker "leftists" stopping short of a fundamental examination of why these unjust systems exist? The answer is in large part because it starts to unearth some fairly loathsome essentialist beliefs about human nature that they've internalised and are either a) avoiding reckoning with or b) are okay with for whatever reason. As shown by whenever people like like OP get backed into a corner and reveal tacit support for ethnic cleansing or what have you.

[Howel]

You are the one suggesting these jobs don't deserve glory and enrichment.

Invoking nature and the natural order is rather surprisingly conservative and essentialist in this respect. Why on Earth shouldn't a farmhand expect to lead an enriched, fulfilled and dignified life, remains an open question. Your invocation of what amounts to "That is just how things are" doesn't actually answer the WHY question.

Because it is a very complicated answer, that one could write entire encyclopedias about. Strangely no one has, not commies, not intellectuals, no one. No one really can address the cultural perception of one of the most key pillars of a societal need.

But it is mostly to do with their often times fairly low level of education. Their solitary conditions, making it hard to get any real perception of them. It is not a complicated job (however much they bitch about the complexity of GPSs doing all the work for them nowadays). Etc. etc..

Oh and also because, most people will say how great they are, until their steak costs twice as much, at which point they'll tell farmers they are unreasonable.

- - - Updated - - -

I do want to add a corollary to this.

Agriculture of sufficient scale to sustain relatively large urban communities is such a shit industry that we've been inventing increasingly novel ways of forcing people to do it for free (or near enough) for, as you said, well over the past five millennia. You can't have a class struggle if society isn't capable of sustaining strata.

Which then begs the question...why are all these supposedly pro-worker "leftists" stopping short of a fundamental examination of why these unjust systems exist? The answer is in large part because it starts to unearth some fairly loathsome essentialist beliefs about human nature that they've internalised and are either a) avoiding reckoning with or b) are okay with for whatever reason.

I have mentioned, that even the Soviet Union, who spent quite of lot of time praising them as the absolute pillar of labour. They were still not perceived as much more than the lowest rung of people in society.

[Theodarzna]

Because it is a very complicated answer, that one could write entire encyclopedias about. Strangely no one has, not commies, not intellectuals, no one. No one really can address the cultural perception of one of the most key pillars of a societal need.

But it is mostly to do with their often times fairly low level of education. Their solitary conditions, making it hard to get any real perception of them. It is not a complicated job (however much they bitch about the complexity of GPSs doing all the work for them nowadays). Etc. etc..

It wasn't complicated to suggest it on your part, I am unsure why it is complicated to answer it. It might be a very morally ambiguous answer but I can tolerate and accept moral ambiguity. I cannot exactly contrive a good answer for why the farmhand doesn't deserve a dignified life, enriched, and glorified life.

And in fact, your point contradicts what most people say about their defacto Open Borders stance, that labour regulations will ensure there is no exploitation, but here you are giving away the game, that actually it's critical to exploit labour and ensure an inflated labour pool so that workers can be paid less. I think they should be paid more.

[Elegiac]

Because it is a very complicated answer, that one could write entire encyclopedias about. Strangely no one has, not commies, not intellectuals, no one. No one really can address the cultural perception of one of the most key pillars of a societal need.

But it is mostly to do with their often times fairly low level of education. Their solitary conditions, making it hard to get any real perception of them. It is not a complicated job (however much they bitch about the complexity of GPSs doing all the work for them nowadays). Etc. etc..

I mean...people have written a lot of shit about this exact subject so I'm not sure where you're getting this from.

It really does seem to be a function of agriculture of scale prioritizing land owners over land workers combined with a disconnect between people growing the crops and the people consuming them. These aren't insoluble problems, especially with technology and globalisation.

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I have mentioned, that even the Soviet Union, who spent quite of lot of time praising them as the absolute pillar of labour. They were still not perceived as much more than the lowest rung of people in society.

Man it's almost as if the USSR was an authoritarian con job with a leftist facade, making the distinction pointless because the impulses underlining an industrial economy controlled by an elite remain the same.

[Theodarzna]

I have mentioned, that even the Soviet Union, who spent quite of lot of time praising them as the absolute pillar of labour. They were still not perceived as much more than the lowest rung of people in society.

I am curious for a citation about the ethnic cleansing, but I find Elegiac has unintentionally invoked a Ted Kacynzski critic about Industrial Civilization kinda funny. Yes, Civilization and class hierarchies are an interesting problem, I wonder if that will be expanded upon.

However, the perception of someone as the "lowest rank" is a strange hill to die on. Why are they perceived that way? Shouldn't that be a question to ask instead of uncritically nodding our heads about that?

[Thepersona]

Man it's almost as if the USSR was an authoritarian con job with a leftist facade, making the distinction pointless because the impulses underlining an industrial economy controlled by an elite remain the same.

They were not authoritarian state capitalists... at the very beggining (so, between 1917-1918). But then Lenin got there.

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I am curious for a citation about the ethnic cleansing, but I find Elegiac has unintentionally invoked a Ted Kacynzski critic about Industrial Civilization kinda funny. Yes, Civilization and class hierarchies are an interesting problem, I wonder if that will be expanded upon.

However, the perception of someone as the "lowest rank" is a strange hill to die on. Why are they perceived that way? Shouldn't that be a question to ask instead of uncritically nodding our heads about that?

Easy, because it's not a particularly hard job.

[Howel]

And in fact, your point contradicts what most people say about their defacto Open Borders stance, that labour regulations will ensure there is no exploitation, but here you are giving away the game, that actually it's critical to exploit labour and ensure an inflated labour pool so that workers can be paid less. I think they should be paid more.

I will be very kind, and merely tell you to fuck off with that absolutely dishonest interpretation.

I have clearly stated, that there exists capacity for well paid farm hands, but that it is a stark reality that no one native wants that job enough to the extend that it can fulfill that labour. So unless you fucking wanna starve, bankrupt farmers because they don't have labour, or go do that job yourself, stop pretending to have a solution, when you don't.

NY state came to that realization when ICE raided dairy farmers for immigrant workers overstaying visas. No natives took those jobs, and because of the purge, no other immigrants really dared to touch it. Putting several farmers in more severe debt (than farmers usually are), having to bankroll automatic milking machines or straight up bankrupt.

So sure, I am sure farmers will be happy to hear from communists thinking they know how to manage agriculture, worked fucking well last time.

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However, the perception of someone as the "lowest rank" is a strange hill to die on. Why are they perceived that way? Shouldn't that be a question to ask instead of uncritically nodding our heads about that?

Feel free to so. Until you find actual solutions, I am frankly completely uninterested in it.

[Theodarzna]

I will be very kind, and merely tell you to fuck off with that absolutely dishonest interpretation.

I have clearly stated, that there exists capacity for well paid farm hands, but that it is a stark reality that no one native wants that job enough to the extend that it can fulfill that labour. So unless you fucking wanna starve, bankrupt farmers because they don't have labour, or go do that job yourself, stop pretending to have a solution, when you don't.

NY state came to that realization when ICE raided dairy farmers for immigrant workers overstaying visas. No natives took those jobs, and because of the purge, no other immigrants really dared to touch it. Putting several farmers in more severe debt (than farmers usually are), having to bankroll automatic milking machines or straight up bankrupt.

So sure, I am sure farmers will be happy to hear from communists thinking they know how to manage agriculture, worked fucking well last time.

Then let's create well-paid farmhands? How might we do that? Probably by ensuring current farmhands don't have to compete with an unlimited number of labourers. I want farmhands to be enriched, glorified and leave decent dignified lives.

You are the one who is both getting angry with expletives at being asked, "Hey, why do you believe they don't deserve to be enriched, or glorified", and you seem uncomfortable, dare I say, expressing a kind of fragility about this.

As for Communism and farming, I am advocating that farmhands be paid well and lead dignified lives, not Lysenkoism in which we pretend a kind of secular creationism is a thing. Paying farm workers well isn't exactly the same thing as claiming biological competition among organisms doesn't exist among other wild theories.

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Feel free to so. Until you find actual solutions, I am frankly completely uninterested in it.

I, and by extension actually Angela Nagle, already did. Not import an a huge never ending labour pool that supresses wages and keeps workers in a precarious desperate position. Balls in your court now.

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They were not authoritarian state capitalists... at the very beggining (so, between 1917-1918). But then Lenin got there.

Easy, because it's not a particularly hard job.

One, we already in Capitalist America have an industrial economy controlled by an elite.

And second, its difficulty is relative. It is actually very difficult in terms of manual labour and the strain on the body. I don't see why that should not come with being "unglorified and poor" to use Howel's schemata.

[Theodarzna]

Malcolm is a member of the conservative think-tank called oikos. The founder of the think-tank was the second in charge of the Sweden Democrats party, whose foundation lies in nazism.

Yes, noted Half-African super Nazi, I for one am really excited for the fresh diverse face of Nazism.



/s

In all seriousness, this discourse reminds me of Amber Lee Frost describing someone kvetching "What if pepe, Trump voters want to join our labour union" to which she said "Well, then you've won.... congrats"

[Elegiac]

Yes, noted Half-African super Nazi, I for one am really excited for the fresh diverse face of Nazism.

We've already been through this little song and dance with Andy Ngo, hun.

[Edge-]

Then let's create well-paid farmhands? How might we do that? Probably by ensuring current farmhands don't have to compete with an unlimited number of labourers. I want farmhands to be enriched, glorified and leave decent dignified lives.

I mean, farmers in California have tried that. And while areas like Napa are much more expensive to live in, other large farming areas like Stockton remain affordable for lower income households. And Californian's still didn't want the jobs.

https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-...s-immigration/

Now, I'll agree that $30K a year for full time isn't a ton of money, but it's absolutely livable if you're outside the tech hubs. I've lived off of around that much in California and been able to live alright and stash some money away. If you're talking about giving them competitive pay with say, traditional "white collar" jobs, then you're talking about a literal global economic transformation to how literally every country and company does business from the ground up.

You're talking high-minded latte idealism, not anything that's gonna have a practical impact on these farm workers you seem to care about.

I, and by extension actually Angela Nagle, already did. Not import an a huge never ending labour pool that supresses wages and keeps workers in a precarious desperate position. Balls in your court now.

Alright, so should wages continue to rise for say, a farmhand position, until domestic workers will take them, then? How does that impact the price of the end-products? Will the be competitive in the current global market? Will the be competitive domestically compared to imports? Would we have to raise tariffs to encourage domestic purchase and consumption? How would it impact the price of those goods for consumers in the US writ-large and the impact on purchases?

If this was linked somewhere and I missed it I'd be happy to read it, but I'm not sure how one would accomplish that in the current reality in which we exist.

[downnola]

That is a weirdly essentialist view like those certain demographics are innately fascist is; I don't know that seems to be very essentialist. What about the Republican Parties voting Demographic is essentially destined for Fascism versus say the Democratic party?

If I'm being honest, I think it has something to do with the anxiety caused by the realization that "white" people will no longer be a majority in the United States. I also think it has to do with the extreme anti-communist propaganda that's been manufactured here since the end of the second world war and the realization that the U.S. will no longer be the sole super power in the near future but one of many (if that at the rate we're going). All of these things on top of an ever diversifying population (not entirely a "White People" issue. There are plenty of Black Americans are hostile to immigration from the Southern Americas) allows people like Glenn Beck to peddle the insane ramblings of people like W. Cleon Skousen, or Tucker Carlson and Laura Ingraham to regurgitate white replacement propaganda on Fox News.

Is every Republican voter susceptible to this propaganda or have the kinds of concerns that I outlined? No, but enough of them do to the point that it's profitable for Fox News to give voice to propaganda of this nature and for their viewership to gobble it up and dominate the ratings for close to two decades. It's why the Tea Party was ushered in by protests accusing the President of being a Muslim socialist from Kenya, climate change being a hoax (with the Second Amendment being the correction), and national healthcare creeping us step by step towards 1984. Trump, the Alt-Right, and QAnon are not new issues plaguing the United States. The conspiracies, the superstitions, blatant racism, and historical revisionism in this country has always existed along the fringes and even in the mainstream of American politics. It's to the point where the Republican platform is so incoherent that the only thing that they all agree on is their disdain for Democrats. It's a party that would elect a reality tv star with no political experience and never served in the military to the presidency and defend him from any and every criticism from Democrats and Republicans alike. They manage to do this while cutting taxes for the ultra wealthy, gutting the affordable healthcare act while blocking a replacement, wage trade wars with tariffs that raises prices on the working class, and provide large sums of stringless cash to corporations with no way to see who got what.

Meanwhile, "tankie paleo-conservatives with terf characteristics" are more concerned with the shortcomings of the Democratic party and Pepsi flying LGBT flags during pride month or Kapernick kneeling for the flag. It's the biggest fucking swindle of all time.

[Howel]

Then let's create well-paid farmhands? How might we do that? Probably by ensuring current farmhands don't have to compete with an unlimited number of labourers. I want farmhands to be enriched, glorified and leave decent dignified lives.

I... Am I missing something? Are my messages partly invisible, specifically where I continuously express that is not the problem?

You are the one who is both getting angry with expletives at being asked, "Hey, why do you believe they don't deserve to be enriched, or glorified", and you seem uncomfortable, dare I say, expressing a kind of fragility about this.

The only thing I am angry about, is that I grew up in agriculture, and then have had to spend 20 years of my adult life as a political adviser, absolutely sledgehammering again and again the thick skulled dumb politicians (and now forum people), that their little idealistic ideas about hippy commie "just throw money at it, that'll fix", does not work. Unless they are willing to go out to the public and tell them that from now on, they as the 99 % of the population are going to bankroll the 1 %, an absolutely insane project of paying farmhands such handsome wages, for a low skilled job, so that we can all feel goodie inside, then you are not fucking doing anything but harming the farming community with dipshit ideas, because you dislike the notion that we have foreigners doing it.

I feel quite rightful with being angry, that I literally have to spoon it into people mouths, as they drool idealism, that they are absolutely unaware of what effects their shit ideas will have.

I, and by extension actually Angela Nagle, already did. Not import an a huge never ending labour pool that supresses wages and keeps workers in a precarious desperate position. Balls in your court now.

Farmers have been the lowest rung on society, and have always been one the poorest in society, and a job everyone fled the second they could. Immigration didn't change that, it kept up with it.