Why has the game moved from skill gates to time gates?

[cozzri]

I think we are forgetting about the biggest time game of them all.... RAID LOCKOUTS!!! The gear time-gating is brutal; 2-3 loots per boss per week for 40 people; why not just let you run the raid over and over? Raid sizes are smaller now, but instead of competing with other people for best in slot, you are competing with a slot machine for best in slot.

[DietzThought]

Essences, ap, corruption resistance are all examples of content that is time gated to varies degrees.

No. Essences, ap, and corruption resistance are not content, they're tools to help you clear content like raid instances.

ICC was time-gated because only every 2 weeks (I think) a new wing opened. I guess you could argue that Ny'alotha was time-gated, but there's reasons for that. The raid opens one week after the patch so you have time to play through the story that leads up to the raid instance and the story in it. And mythic opens after heroic and normal, so mythic raiders can play through the raid in a relaxed setting before hardcore-wiping to early bosses on mythic (I believe that's the reason). LFR also has a staggered release, but that is because normal and hc raiders are such special snowflakes that they need to see the end boss before the unworthy LFR crowd.

If you're skilled enough, you could have killed Mythic N'Zoth by February 6th (Limit is proof of that). That means if you haven't, that's due to skill-gating.

[Big Thanks]

Im glad to see people with an actual brain talk about stuff like the corruption rotation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PO81BCKHrsg&t=12m24s

In MMO-C you are called out for being a "hater" and a "shitposter" for bringing this points.
This whiteknight VS hater label bullshit needs to stop

[Peanutsauce]

Sorry man, I've reread your initial post a few times now and I think I'm missing your point entirely. You said content was time gated, but didn't list any content. You only listed rewards.

People are already clearing content soon after it's release (the top players of course, not me). They aren't being time gated from the content outside of that initial week or two an expansion launches.

It sounds to me like a skilled player can do it, but you require the rewards that take time to obtain. That's fine, most players (myself included) do need the extra gear and stats. But that's not a time gate, that's a skill issue. Those rewards function as a slow-release catch-up mechanic, much like the corruptions we see today. They're insane, and all passive (no skill there). Most essences are passive or just one button you press on cooldown. Not seeing the skill. Your necklace is a stat stick beyond the AP you should already have from basic stuff providing you with azerite powers.

I see time gating content more as only allowing us to complete one quest a week in a long chain, or not permitting us to raid every boss upon release. Time gating things are in the game in some forms, and frustrating, but not what you've formed your stance on. Your complaint at it's core I believe is that the gear you and 99% of other players need to beat difficult content is time gated, not the content itself.

[Marrilaife]

Because only a small % has skill while everyone has time.

So blizzard caters for the biggest most profitable audience which are those who got time more than anything else.

Aaaand... we have a winner boys!

This is plain naked truth right here.

[EllieNora]

I think this is why people confuse classic with being hard as opposed to being tedious.

Yes, in terms of the more challenging content like raid prog, it was extremely difficult for the average guild, many never saw the end boss in any raid yet now average guilds will at least progress to them, even if they can't pre-nerf kill. But everything else like the attunements, the resist farm, rep, time gating etc just wasn't difficult, oath. It just took longer to progress than it does now.

More timegates now? Even then, probably, but that is more the case of having a timegate now, instead of hour many hours in a day do you wanna sit doing the same thing repeatedly at the slowest of progress rates. I'd rather have the timegate, do all my shit within 3 days and then logout and play some thing else.

[Big Thanks]

I'd rather have the timegate, do all my shit within 3 days and then logout and play some thing else.

Is never "3 days" with Blizzard...if it was i would be happy.

Is always "weeks to months".

[Sparklelord]

Classic was already time gated when you need to wait on AQ opening event

Did you even read what the OP wrote? They mentioned that already (see below) lol. You should go back and fully read the post before blindly responding.

Now don't get me wrong blizzard has been desperately trying to time gate content as early as tbc and even vanilla if you count the aq gates.

[Mendzia]

I like how some people still think that attunements or AQ event are time gating...
... but i also do not agree there ever was skill gating (ok, maybe in arenas).

[Monster Hunter]

People resub for a patch, and after Method.. sorry some guild gets world first.. they go back to sucking some other games tits until the next patch. Tbh, I’d rather people just either played the damn game or quit. It’s annoying AF to see people resub for 2 weeks and act hard, then leave until the next patch lol

Some one hasn't been following the news.

[EllieNora]

Is never "3 days" with Blizzard...if it was i would be happy.

Is always "weeks to months".

It's like when you're eating a plate of food and no matter how long you eat it for, between each mouthful somehow the plate looks fuller than when you started. Sometimes you just have to know when you're beaten and a lid over it for leftovers later.

[Trumpcat]

Farming dailies for months to get the reputation for that one best bracer enchant in Northrend really tested my skills. Or farming mats in BC for shadow resist gear.

[Krakan]

Because as players became better and better at video games overall, the developers could no longer keep up by making difficult game mechanics and encounters, so they just switched to time gates as the safer and cheaper way.

Besides, you can't possibly be serious to claim that vanilla raiding was hard. The bosses had like 2 mechanics, and people still wiped. But then a lot of players were kinda trash at the game. That obviously changed over time, so the devs came up with bosses with tons of mechanics, but it was still not enough, as raids were cleared within days from release by the top guilds. So they put the time gate system up.

I think your missing the premise of the thread...

I'm pointing out the time gating not the difficulty... it's like the poster claiming you don't need the best corruption or to have everything maxed yet if I were to ask him to show me that wasn't the case he wouldn't be able to find a log of any kill that lacked those things.

Yes mythic raiding is harder then classic it also has nothing to do with what is being discussed

[Eapoe]

Topic has kind of been touched on before but I figured I would bring it up In a more focused form. In recent expansions wow has started to really focus on the concept that time gating is the preferred option to skill gating content.

Essences, ap, corruption resistance are all examples of content that is time gated to varies degrees. Now don't get me wrong blizzard has been desperately trying to time gate content as early as tbc and even vanilla if you count the aq gates.

It just seems that in the past it was massively pushed back against. The concept that if you were good enough at the game to run something you should be able to run it prevailed but I noticed that slowly but surely the idea that in order to run end game you must first farm trivial content to excess to succeed hs taken hold.

I can understand why pointless systems like leveling your cloak exists but with the playerbase becoming more and more accepting of practices that are only in place to draw out content do you think we will see a ever increasing amount of them put into place?

Who says one has replaced the other and not that they are compliments to the other. Skilled players at the high end, such as Method and Limit, clear the highest difficulty much faster and with much less gear than the lower skilled players do. Lower skilled players can still have a chance to clear something at a much slower pace due to extra gear that becomes available.
Can players choose to go the route of using less skill in favor of using more of their time? Sure, but if you have the skill why would you? Maybe to be less stressed and find more enjoyment on a personal level? That could work, but that’s not a downside of the 2 existing at the same time.
It seems that the leveling of the cloak, weapons, and rings of the past have actually done nothing to diminish people having skill to do something, and is more of a way for people without the same high level of skill to be able to clear content at a slower pace.
So, for a quick comparison, your topic of skill vs time-gating completely alienated some players, while Blizzard’s approach of both existing gives many more players the ability to do something they previously wouldn’t be able to.

[Krakan]

Sorry man, I've reread your initial post a few times now and I think I'm missing your point entirely. You said content was time gated, but didn't list any content. You only listed rewards.

People are already clearing content soon after it's release (the top players of course, not me). They aren't being time gated from the content outside of that initial week or two an expansion launches.

It sounds to me like a skilled player can do it, but you require the rewards that take time to obtain. That's fine, most players (myself included) do need the extra gear and stats. But that's not a time gate, that's a skill issue. Those rewards function as a slow-release catch-up mechanic, much like the corruptions we see today. They're insane, and all passive (no skill there). Most essences are passive or just one button you press on cooldown. Not seeing the skill. Your necklace is a stat stick beyond the AP you should already have from basic stuff providing you with azerite powers.

I see time gating content more as only allowing us to complete one quest a week in a long chain, or not permitting us to raid every boss upon release. Time gating things are in the game in some forms, and frustrating, but not what you've formed your stance on. Your complaint at it's core I believe is that the gear you and 99% of other players need to beat difficult content is time gated, not the content itself.

Don't take this personally it isn't you alone but most of the thread...

I pointed out what is needed to succeed in mythic and I've gotten replies of the quality of saying " you can clear mythic in lfr gear!"

I forgot that the majority of the playerbase does not engage in harder content and doesn't really know what happens in it. The amount of players who seem to believe that method clears content in blue gear by squinting at bosses has floored me a bit.

- - - Updated - - -

...and that is why I agree with the people who say there always were time gates. They may have a different name and people may not call them that because it serves their agenda.

As a player, you chose gaming genre which had this system implemented. Maaaaybe not apparent on day 1, when you created your first character. But the moment you found out that you will need 100 gold and level 40 to get your mount (also rep with your faction IIRC) - there is your first timegate.

I might have forgotten, but I guess stuff in AB or AV or WSG to get from the faction was gated by rep. Definitely you needed rep to buy Aquintal essences to douse runes to advance in MC.

Even running BRM to get an item from the end of the dungeon or attuning in UBRS for BWL is a timegate. Briefly touching on OP wrong claim that is "stuff you do once and are done" - you needed a key to unlock the gates to enter UBRS, LBRS...right? (again..maybe I misremember, too long ago)

You need to skin Onyxia to get capes that help you defeat mechanics in BWL. To skin her, you need a special skill level only attainable with a special item. This is a timegate..make no mistake.

AQ war effort....Nature res on bosses that needed to be farmed..etc etc etc. Classic already had timegates...hardly to be overcome by skill alone.

Got worse with TBC and the attunement and OP's claim that you could grind out the rep for the heroic keys (yes, he use plural) by just running normal in 1 or 2 hrs.

Basically at that claim to me it was clear that OP is just here to piss ppl off.

And I will rest my case with the literal and in your face time gates of having portals to SWP bosses pop up on a set week and no amount of skill let you advance faster.

OP: Maybe change your agenda to "There are more timegates now than ever" and we might....just might have a discussion here.

I mean in the opening thread you drew information from I make the point that the amount of time gates has increased... your saying op please... if you would only make the arguement your already making I could contribute...

[AwkwardSquirtle]

It wasn't skill gated generally, it was time investment gated. Grinding rep or farming gear doesn't require skill, but it is a massive time sink.

Raids are still skill gated more than time gated. The only raid difficulty that's time gated is LFR.

[Saltysquidoon]

I'm pointing out the time gating not the difficulty... it's like the poster claiming you don't need the best corruption or to have everything maxed yet if I were to ask him to show me that wasn't the case he wouldn't be able to find a log of any kill that lacked those things.

Yes mythic raiding is harder then classic it also has nothing to do with what is being discussed

Are you legitimately trying to argue that every single mythic kill has people using the best corruptions when until the vendor was added corruptions were completely RNG.
I mean I don't think you really need 'evidence' that people were downing bosses without three-stack infinite stars.

More to your general point WoW has always been time-gated to an extent, it's a gear based RPG after all. The best players in the world can't down raid bosses at level one.

Less absurdly I don't really get your crusade against the infinitely grinding systems, of course, they drive engagement (because that's what they're designed to do) but they aren't 'time gates'.
A time gate prevents you doing something, grinding AP just makes you better at doing whatever you're doing.
I killed Mythic Cenarius as a blood DK with basically whatever AP I could scrounge up in two days when our tank suddenly hurt himself. Would it have been easier if I'd been grinding ap for blood since release? Yes. Was it a 'time gate' for me or the guild? No.

[Garymorilix]

I love these people. Growin' old, aren't ya?

Yes, I love skill-gates, especially in everyone's favourite expansion: WotLK.
Y'know, the expansion where you had an actual counter during raiding that told you how many pulls you can make and that's it.

Biggest skill-gate ever.

Gtfo plz.

[Krakan]

Your OP is all over the place and not even consistent with your headline.

You don't define what the skillgates were and you claim the game moved to timegates.

We tell you it didn't. There were always timegates. How about you tell us what you define as a skillgate to start off simply?

Even if you think you need skill to kill LV and KT in TBC (yes, you do) then there originally was the mechanic that they only dropped 4 (?) vessels per kill, meaning you needed 7 kills of each boss to enter MH. If you ask me...again a timegate on top of a skill gate and I am happy that it got removed and when we killed LV and KT all ppl in the raid were attuned to enter MH.

But let me just cut all the crap. Why do they do what they do? Because it seems to work best for the interests of the company. Aka keeping you interested in the game and giving you money.

Key word: it "seems" to work best. Proceed to tell us how if they listened to you, they would have 10 million subs and made more money.

I don't really see how they are not self explanatory. If something can be obtained via playing better its skill. If something requires x amount of time it's time...

- - - Updated - - -

Are you legitimately trying to argue that every single mythic kill has people using the best corruptions when until the vendor was added corruptions were completely RNG.
I mean I don't think you really need 'evidence' that people were downing bosses without three-stack infinite stars.

More to your general point WoW has always been time-gated to an extent, it's a gear based RPG after all. The best players in the world can't down raid bosses at level one.

Less absurdly I don't really get your crusade against the infinitely grinding systems, of course, they drive engagement (because that's what they're designed to do) but they aren't 'time gates'.
A time gate prevents you doing something, grinding AP just makes you better at doing whatever you're doing.
I killed Mythic Cenarius as a blood DK with basically whatever AP I could scrounge up in two days when our tank suddenly hurt himself. Would it have been easier if I'd been grinding ap for blood since release? Yes. Was it a 'time gate' for me or the guild? No.

Not everyone no. Every late boss yes. In fact they used stronger corruptions then are currently in the game.

I find it odd how so few know what method and limit do to clear content. They do not rush into it under geared...

[Celarent]

Why has the game moved from skill gates to time gates?

Lack of baseline difficulty in content, and abundance of time among the remaining player base.

Obviously, there have always been grinds but earlier on they were nuanced and relative to other players' progress, or they at least fit into a broader and looser array of player activities like exploring, hi-jinks and such. LFR, Blizzard's overcompensation for 4.0-4.2 Cataclysm PVE difficulty, lowered raids to the same consumption category as dungeons. Hit-and-miss success with appealing, authentic MMO timewasters further narrowed player options. Natural subscriber attrition reduced the player base to individuals with enormous amounts of time to dedicate to WoW. Add all that up and your design solution is a matter of quantity.