AQ40 progression thread

[Dalinos]

What you are recalling is false however... Extremely false:

Let's see an example:

Classic:

Kel'Thuzad has approximately 3,150,000 hit points.

Frost bolt single - 2 second cast. Inflicts 9,000 to 11,000 Frost damage
Frost bolt multiple - Inflicts 2,750 to 3,500 Frost damage and reduces the targets' movement speed for 4 sec.

Wotlk 25 man version
Kel'Thuzad has approximately 14,660,000 hit points.

Frostbolt — Inflicts 29250 to 30750 Frost damage
Frostbolt Volley — Inflicts 7200 to 8800 Frost damage to nearby enemies, reducing their movement speed for 4 sec.

Source:
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Kel%27Thuzad_(Classic)
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Kel%27Thuzad_(tactics)

Hell... even in 10 man KT (and all the other bosses) had twice the HP.

Dalinos, you are the one who's trolling. The 25 man version abilities hit 3 times harder on average, and bosses had 5 times more HP. Those are the facts, memories are something else entirely.

Sapphiron's aura hits harder in Vanilla than in WOTLK. Also, take a close look at the numbers you posted. 3,500 dmg out of a 5,000 HP healthpool (for casters/healers/DPS) is 70% of their total HP. 8,800 dmg out of a 25,000 HP pool is under 45% of that player's total HP. Ergo, Vanilla's KT is deadlier than WOTLK's KT, %-wise.

Regarding Sapphiron, HE is the boss who's aura does more flat dmg in the lvl 60 version than in the lvl 80 version. I am most certainly NOT the one who is trolling, as I just proved my point using the data YOU found. Another poster posted that Sapphiron's aura does 1,6k dmg every 2 secs unmitigated. We were all rocking 200/250+ Frost Res at the time, mitigating around 75% of the dmg, bringing the 1.6k down to 400. Exactly how I remember it.

[Djuntas]

I just laugh all the people who farm nature res, but maybe im the fool. I hope I'll be suprised. Yesterday I ran a UBRS run and I think a warlock left us because he could not get the resist cloth armor from the 2nd boss in the whelp area or some....Maybe resist will matter.

[WingsofLiberty]

Sapphiron's aura hits harder in Vanilla than in WOTLK. Also, take a close look at the numbers you posted. 3,500 dmg out of a 5,000 HP healthpool (for casters/healers/DPS) is 70% of their total HP. 8,800 dmg out of a 25,000 HP pool is under 45% of that player's total HP. Ergo, Vanilla's KT is deadlier than WOTLK's KT, %-wise.

Regarding Sapphiron, HE is the boss who's aura does more flat dmg in the lvl 60 version than in the lvl 80 version. I am most certainly NOT the one who is trolling, as I just proved my point using the data YOU found. Another poster posted that Sapphiron's aura does 1,6k dmg every 2 secs unmitigated. We were all rocking 200/250+ Frost Res at the time, mitigating around 75% of the dmg, bringing the 1.6k down to 400. Exactly how I remember it.

You said flat damage. Not scaled damage.

I didn't say the 25 man version was harder, I said that you are spreading blatantly false information namely: "naxx40 spells hit for more flat damage than their naxx25 counterparts".

Also, you are wrong, again, about the numbers... Sapphiron's aura hit for 600 in Naxx40 and for 1600 in Naxx25. Flat damage was much higher in Naxx25 than in Naxx40. That is a fact.

Naxx25 was easy, true, and Naxx40 was relatively hard, for its time. Now, it will be facerolled just like pretty much every other vanilla raid. The players have gotten much better and standing behind an iceblock or doing the dance isn't going to be a problem for any decent raider from retail.

It seriously feels to me like some people here are pretending that in Naxx40 all bosses had 3 more phases and 20 more abilities added compared to the Wotlk version. That's false and mostly the result of nostalgia. Naxx25 was undertuned for its time but the mechanics themselves were much easier compared to basically any TBC raid and that was also a big factor.

[AeneasBK]

It seriously feels to me like some people here are pretending that in Naxx40 all bosses had 3 more phases and 20 more abilities added compared to the Wotlk version. That's false and mostly the result of nostalgia. Naxx25 was undertuned for its time but the mechanics themselves were much easier compared to basically any TBC raid and that was also a big factor.

Only did part of Naxx 40 when I was level 70 so happy to be told there was a lot more to it; but the only boss I *thought* that was noticably different was Heigan, in that no one got teleported to the end of the eye beam tunnel during the fight. But the rest were pretty much just "numbers tuned" versions of the level 60 encounters.

[Alphatorg]

How do you even come up with the idea of calling something hard that requires you to press your one or two buttons while standing completely still and then maybe move to the other side once every one or two minutes if the boss is "hard".
Like who cares about numbers tuning when the execution difficulty is set to braindead. It's like pretending the childrens game where they have to try and put the cylinder into the round opening is actually hard for grown ups and anyone who says otherwise just hasn't tried the right size of pieces.

I see Thaddius has been mentioned. What exactly is hard about running to the other side of the boss when an addon tells you to? How does it get any harder with numbers?
Or Heigan, how is it hard to run 2cm forward every time the green goo disappears? How does it get any more or less difficult with numbers tuning?
Even in the original Vanilla people called other people retards for failing on those two bosses and that was with atrocious connections and PCs.

[Trinkie]

Yes, you are very correct, and since we were all at 250+ frost resistance, we shaved off 75% of the dmg. If it's 1.6k dmg unmitigated, then 75% mitigation will take it down to...lo and behold, 400 dmg. Since (1600/100) x 75 = 1,200 exactly.

You can imagine the look on our faces once we pulled Sapphiron. The legendary dragon, that brought healers to their knees, that needed so much Frost Resistance...now does 200 dmg per second. On 20k HP healthpools. What a farce.

If you had 250+ resistance then you had frost resis gear, just saying.

[Rikkuu]

I think world buffs are the biggest offender in classic.

Guilds like APES, will clear it during 2 hours with worldbuffs, with ppl rarely dying, so they maintain them for the whole raid. This is acredited to them being prepared from private servers.

But on the other hand, regular guilds will not maintain the world buffs for the whole duration, or maybe wipe few times "to remember how the fights go" and for them, the raid will be much much harder, maybe even unclearable in one evening.

World buffs widen the gap between HC guilds and regular guilds... and its not just "well STOP SUCKING AND GET BUFFS ON EVERYONE", because of what i said in previous sentence

[Trinkie]

Sapphiron's aura hits harder in Vanilla than in WOTLK. Also, take a close look at the numbers you posted. 3,500 dmg out of a 5,000 HP healthpool (for casters/healers/DPS) is 70% of their total HP. 8,800 dmg out of a 25,000 HP pool is under 45% of that player's total HP. Ergo, Vanilla's KT is deadlier than WOTLK's KT, %-wise.

Regarding Sapphiron, HE is the boss who's aura does more flat dmg in the lvl 60 version than in the lvl 80 version. I am most certainly NOT the one who is trolling, as I just proved my point using the data YOU found. Another poster posted that Sapphiron's aura does 1,6k dmg every 2 secs unmitigated. We were all rocking 200/250+ Frost Res at the time, mitigating around 75% of the dmg, bringing the 1.6k down to 400. Exactly how I remember it.

No it doesn't, it hits for 600 every second before resistance which means it hits for less. Ontop of that it can actually be resisted.

[Darkimpact]

It's amazing to me how many people keep reposting/debating this stuff every 2 days. Anyone actually have some new and interesting topic to talk about? CLASSIC EZ! CLASSIC HARD! NO YOU!!!! NO YOU!!! /yaaaaaaaaaaawn

[Nnyco]

AQ patch will open soon and raid progress starts once gates are opened. I think someone opens gate on the very first day, so we dont have to wait too long.

Everyone knew MC and BWL would be blasted under 1 hour once entering the raid but AQ40 will be different. This time we have raid tuned around 16 debuff slots so we might actually see few day race.

Huhuran is expected to be the first huge wall for WF raiders since leather users cant craft NR gear until later phases. C'thun itself is obviously going to be the hardest one but its just about tacticts rather than gear check like Huhuran.

Whos gonna be the first? My prediction is APES if they manage to get into raid without instance bugging like last time.

Change that to few minutes and you got that right. Once the gate is open the raid gonna be deleted by anyone with half a brain.

[OrcsRLame]

2) Kel'Thuzad's 1-shot mechanics were SEVERELY NERFED. In Naxx-40, his AOE frostbolt hits around 15 people for 90% of their health. In Naxx-25, his AOE frostbolt hits 5-7 people for 30% of their health.

Why do you guys ALWAYS have to lie about this shit when video evidence can prove you wrong so easily? https://youtu.be/6CNN_Cn2L2A?t=396

You can clearly see a few seconds after the time stamp the frostbolt volley does around 35-40% of their HP in damage. And before you try to say they must have had frost protection potions up, they don't. You can clearly see in the rest of the video that they regularly get hit with the volley and it consistently does around 35-40% dmg.

The 10 man version clearly does a little less, but only by about 5-10% or so. https://youtu.be/nM0NFpmi9X0?t=168

The 25 man version does about the same amount of damage as the 40 man version, around 35-40% of a player's health. https://youtu.be/px6EVu7RjEY?t=185

[Nite92]

Sapphiron's aura hits harder in Vanilla than in WOTLK. Also, take a close look at the numbers you posted. 3,500 dmg out of a 5,000 HP healthpool (for casters/healers/DPS) is 70% of their total HP. 8,800 dmg out of a 25,000 HP pool is under 45% of that player's total HP. Ergo, Vanilla's KT is deadlier than WOTLK's KT, %-wise.

Regarding Sapphiron, HE is the boss who's aura does more flat dmg in the lvl 60 version than in the lvl 80 version. I am most certainly NOT the one who is trolling, as I just proved my point using the data YOU found. Another poster posted that Sapphiron's aura does 1,6k dmg every 2 secs unmitigated. We were all rocking 200/250+ Frost Res at the time, mitigating around 75% of the dmg, bringing the 1.6k down to 400. Exactly how I remember it.

The whole argument is pointless. Both were super easy. You argue about whether it is more difficult to steal a lolly from 5 month or 6 month old baby.

[Dalinos]

You said flat damage. Not scaled damage.

I didn't say the 25 man version was harder, I said that you are spreading blatantly false information namely: "naxx40 spells hit for more flat damage than their naxx25 counterparts".

Also, you are wrong, again, about the numbers... Sapphiron's aura hit for 600 in Naxx40 and for 1600 in Naxx25. Flat damage was much higher in Naxx25 than in Naxx40. That is a fact.

Naxx25 was easy, true, and Naxx40 was relatively hard, for its time. Now, it will be facerolled just like pretty much every other vanilla raid. The players have gotten much better and standing behind an iceblock or doing the dance isn't going to be a problem for any decent raider from retail.

It seriously feels to me like some people here are pretending that in Naxx40 all bosses had 3 more phases and 20 more abilities added compared to the Wotlk version. That's false and mostly the result of nostalgia. Naxx25 was undertuned for its time but the mechanics themselves were much easier compared to basically any TBC raid and that was also a big factor.

I think you missed the part where in vanilla, Sapphiron's aura was 600 per SECOND. Not per 2 seconds. PER SECOND. Each second. Not every 2 seconds. That adds up to 1,200 dmg per 2 seconds, with added pushback to the healers. Which is hands down MUCH harder the WOTLK version. 600 dmg per second on 5k Healthpools VS 1.6k dmg per TWO seconds on 25k health pools. Tell me with a straight face I'm wrong.

Edit: I just clicked the Nihilum world first video you linked. LOOK at what Kungen types on 06:50, RIGHT BEFORE THE FROSTBOLT VOLLEY. Oh yeah baby. POTS ON. In all caps. Center of the screen. White font. You're welcome.

- - - Updated - - -

The whole argument is pointless. Both were super easy. You argue about whether it is more difficult to steal a lolly from 5 month or 6 month old baby.

Mate, I'm not saying it's 25man Heroic LK difficulty. Nor am I saying it's 0 Lights in the Darkness. Nor is it Algalon Heroic 25man. Nor is it Algalon 10man heroic with gear capped at 226 ilvl for Herald of the Titans.

What is IS though, is that it's a much more logisitics-oriented raid and preparation-related raid than anything else in Classic. And that is true. It is a raid that was even difficult to go through in TBC, with lvl 70 gear and lvl 70 talents and twice the HP pools.

Will people steam-roll Naxxramas 40? Yes. Grizzled veterans that have 15+ years of raiding experience, will. Guilds like APES, Method, will. However, that is but a small % of the population.

For your average, 1 raid/week guild, which is filled with 25-35 year old family men who juggle work + wife + kids + WoW, it will be a welcome challenge. The place itself is massive, so there's no way your average guild in Classic will be able to both steamroll every boss 1shotting it AND get through the whole raid in 1 evening. People tend to forget that, for every APES and METHOD guild in Classic, there are another 100 guilds that are clearing the exact same content at their own pace.

I can speak for my guild, since I'm their raid leader. My soldiers will be able to go through AQ40 AND Naxx, cause the officer team is stellar (which I am not a part of mind you, I'm just a member), and I'm vocal enough on Discord to lead the raid properly. 50% of us have raided through TBC, WOTLK, Cata, MOP etc. 20% of us raided more than that, in WOD, Legion and BFA. 3 people (me included) have raided everything from Vanilla till Legion. I am fully confident in my team that we WILL steamroll the place, because we're gonna walk in fully prepared. We have not ONE, not TWO, but THREE Thunderfuries and we're working on our 4th one. Wanna know how many TF's my guild had in Vanilla? None. We also have SEVEN Neltharion's Tears. SEVEN. In Vanilla, I saw the item drop once. So we're DEFFO MUCH more powerful than what we were 15 years ago, by definition, cause our MC and BWL gear-drops were better. We are SO prepared for AQ40 and Naxx it's not even funny.

But the rest of the guilds? Damn, there are guilds on my server still wiping on Firemaw for christ's sake. Just because APES does a 24 minute BWL run does NOT mean that the rest of the population does that (or even has an interest to, for that matter).

[WingsofLiberty]

I think you missed the part where in vanilla, Sapphiron's aura was 600 per SECOND. Not per 2 seconds. PER SECOND. Each second. Not every 2 seconds. That adds up to 1,200 dmg per 2 seconds, with added pushback to the healers. Which is hands down MUCH harder the WOTLK version. 600 dmg per second on 5k Healthpools VS 1.6k dmg per TWO seconds on 25k health pools. Tell me with a straight face I'm wrong.

1200 damage every 2 seconds is still lower than 1600 damage every 2 seconds. Not sure what you're on about...

Also, you said it yourself, with 200/250 frost resistance it was down to 300 damage every 2 seconds + it can be completely resisted. That is around 5% of your health every two seconds, aka a joke.

[OrcsRLame]

I think you missed the part where in vanilla, Sapphiron's aura was 600 per SECOND. Not per 2 seconds. PER SECOND. Each second. Not every 2 seconds. That adds up to 1,200 dmg per 2 seconds, with added pushback to the healers. Which is hands down MUCH harder the WOTLK version. 600 dmg per second on 5k Healthpools VS 1.6k dmg per TWO seconds on 25k health pools. Tell me with a straight face I'm wrong.

Edit: I just clicked the Nihilum world first video you linked. LOOK at what Kungen types on 06:50, RIGHT BEFORE THE FROSTBOLT VOLLEY. Oh yeah baby. POTS ON. In all caps. Center of the screen. White font. You're welcome.

I'm gonna give you a bunch of different time stamps.

First volley, pre pots are up and it does chip dmg. https://youtu.be/6CNN_Cn2L2A?t=177

Second volley, pots are up again, and again it does chip dmg. https://youtu.be/6CNN_Cn2L2A?t=194

Third volley, pots are not up, and it does about 35-40% dmg. https://youtu.be/6CNN_Cn2L2A?t=208

Fourth volley, pots are still not up, and it still does about 35-40% dmg. https://youtu.be/6CNN_Cn2L2A?t=226

It's very very easy to see when pots are up or not. At no point in the video does the frost bolt volley hit anyone for 90% of their health.

Here is the first recorded kill of 40 man Saphhiron. https://youtu.be/iRW7EoVwmk0?t=63

If you look in the top left corner you can see the pally taking dmg from the frost aura. It ticks at 1:03, then again at 1:05, then again at 1:07, etc, etc. It's obviously every 2 seconds, not every second.

Why do you just lie about everything when video evidence proves you wrong so easily? I genuinely don't understand the psychology of people like you, but I do find you fascinating. Is it some kind of belief preservation?

[mmocfd1b0ab5a3]

Sapphiron's aura hits harder in Vanilla than in WOTLK. Also, take a close look at the numbers you posted. 3,500 dmg out of a 5,000 HP healthpool (for casters/healers/DPS) is 70% of their total HP. 8,800 dmg out of a 25,000 HP pool is under 45%

25k hp pool? I had 14k hp as hunter when we started naxx 25

[OrcsRLame]

25k hp pool? I had 14k hp as hunter when we started naxx 25

According to Method's raid history page, this was the first recorded kill of Saphhiron 25. https://www.method.gg/video/HeDHXOeIhg4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeDH...ture=emb_title

Hunter pov conveniently. He has 22k HP. And obviously early kills will have less gear than people that took their sweet ass time.

[Dalinos]

25k hp pool? I had 14k hp as hunter when we started naxx 25

Sorry, I was a tank, I remember my HP pool. But how did you only have 14k HP as a Hunter in the beginning of WOTLK? A rogue in full Brutal/Vengeful gear had 11k HP at the end of TBC. Hell, our Grand Marshal Hunter now in Classic (Pusa - Fruit Salad - Dreadmist EU), in full raid & world buffs and full Rank 14 gear, hits 10,470 HP. Doubtful you had 14k HP at lvl 80.

[Wildpantz]

Lol will be cleard in 3 hours max only stupid people will struggle every possible solution exists already.

[Dalinos]

Lol will be cleard in 3 hours max only stupid people will struggle every possible solution exists already.

I'd love to see your active, BWL-MC-Ony-ZG clearing guild, who is so active they can actually beat the REAL World of Warcraft raiding boss (the summer holidays - if you've raided in the same guild for more than a year you know this is true).

As raid leader of the guild I'm in, wanna know what I proposed to the officer team? That we go in AQ40 blind. No boss guides. No thought-out strategies. Simply what the few of us who did it in OG vanilla remember, and knowledge of boss abilities. No world buffs, cause they'll disappear after the 1st wipe, so no point. Dunno if we'll do it, but 1 thing's for sure - if we do, it's gonna be a hell of alot of fun. "What does this boss do? We don't know. Let's find out. Tanks get ready, DBM pulltimer active, we're going in 3....2....1..."

Was I an idiot when it took me 3 weeks to finish Dark Souls 1 on the PS3? Was I a genius when I reached a point, at lvl 200 or so, after 360+ hours on my save file, where I was finishing the game in around 6 hours? Your assessment of a person's intelligence by the amount of time it takes them to clear a raid in a VIDEO GAME THAT THEY ARE PLAYING FOR FUN amuses me.