Conduits 1 week lockdown - overall poll

[glszino]

No you dont add any options if you let people free swap whener you want and there is huge amounth of reasons why rpgs in genral should not have easy way to swap your builds i just gave you one in previous post but you for some reason chosse to ignore it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZ66ORrTXI0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7Yq20XfODI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAIREvmYw6I

Learn something about game desing before you post. 'Do yourself favour please.

To be honest, I couldn't care less about game design theory if the end product turns out to be bad. I don't want a second job, I want to play a game that is fun and not a game where I get frustrated because it follows some game design that looks good on paper but is absolutely terrible in practice.

At least, Blizzard seems to be open based on feedback so hopefully the system can still evolve before release. Blizzard has proven countless times that they are unable to balance the game and they usually nerf too much which often makes the problematic abilities useless. The abilities behind covenants are way too impactful to be a successful feature. This will definitely lead to unneeded frustration in the end. Conduits seem to be less impactful but since they are not spec specific, this will still cause problems.

[Elias01]

Except that the problem you're highlighting is not the proper one. The legendaries were either the best or practically useless, you either had the good one or you were better off rerolling. Being carried by others sounds fun to you?
The part about players demanding, maybe you should actually stand up for your choices and not let others dictate what setup you have. That's strictly a YOU problem.

This lockdown won't change anything regarding being invited. You will either have what is needed and get invited or you don't and you won't get invited.

Also, idk how you guys have the audacity to actually ask that other players put up with your poor choices. I'd be ashamed to ask to be carried like you guys are now asking.

- - - Updated - - -



It's fine, at least you admit to this. And trust me, it's fine that you ask that Blizzard caters to your needs.

Just like it's fine that i ask the same. I want to be able to switch my covenants and conduits without a grind or 1 week cooldown.

Yes its is proper problem what i highlighted. You got legendary what you got and you played with it no matter what and nobady demand after you to have bis one becouse nobady could control what legendary you had in early stages of game and as people start getting more and more legendary items and had more and more options to pick legendary item suddenly people start demanding bis legos for their runs becouse it become reasonable demand. At late stages where everybody had acess to their bis legos you you had to use bis ones or you would not get to do any content at all.

No it isnt stricly my problem. Thats literaly what will happen if you allow free swaping. You migh say how its is players problem as you want it wont change fact people will quit game becouse of it. Its game developer responsibility that player have fun playing. Its not player responsibility to have fun. Players and people in general behave way game is desinged and no sheer player will can change it. Thats why you desing game around how people behave in different type of game systems in order make game for for them. No just give them bunch of stuff and hope they will play fun way. Thats not how people behave.

And you are prove of this statement. You want to free swap becouse you want to be optimal in all possible situations and that fact you can be optimal in all situiations at any moment you want will trickle down entire playerbase and meta will be forced upon everyobody and this is what locking you into your choices prevents. When everybody knows that everybody is locked into their choices nobady can demand after youj to have bis conduits for mythic+ becouse you are alredy locked into different build. And becouse everybody is locked into different builds you have to play with suboptimal players or you are going to spent 5 hours looking for optimal players for that week to run 1 mythic+ or raid.

What do you think will be chance of finding mage with optimal condutits/covenant/talents/spec/legos for you mythic+ run? Oh yeah very close to 0. Do you know whjy? Becouse every mage is locked in into their choices they made and they cant free swap into meta.

[Swnem]

All two of these 10-man raids. The model was deemed unsustainable because of the simple reason that it doubled Blizzard's workload, and within TBC itself they ditched it given that most raids were 25 man and going directly from Kara to ZA was rather unfeasible for most guilds, leading to tons of people stuck in Kara forever in actual practice.

More than other expansions got. They were unique raids for 10 man. They definitely did not say it doubled their work load, cause there was no model at this point and they had been dabbling on it since vanilla. Either way, cause progression wasn't easily reset, there wasn't a content drought for most players, as they were still moving through the tiers.
It was totally possible to go from Karazhan to ZA. There was some catch up gear to help with that as well. I am pretty sure i did that. It's just the 10 man raids weren't the kind of clear in one week affairs we got today. They had challenge cause they were 1 difficulty only.

I don't recall them ever saying the model was unstained. They did want more people to see the later raids though. But, i still think it was a good model. It spanned the breath of the expansion rather than just one patch at a time. It was like moving up a ladder rather than be dropped in the top step.

Also, you say most raids, but there were about basically 3 for 25 man. SSC and Tempest keep had 6 and 4 bosses respectively and were part of the same tier. After that it was Black temple for the longest time. Sunwell came only at the end with Isle of Quel' danas and din't even have it's own tier set. At this point Wrath was already announced and they added a high level dungeon in magisters terrace for casual play. For the record, Kharazan was the biggest raid of the expansion with 11 boss encounters.
Maybe it is more work, but it sure made more sense. Most people have fond memories of Karazhan and Zul Aman, because they were unique raids tailored for them. Other people have fond memories of SSC/TK/BT cause it was tailored to them. But, yes. Because the devs are set in a different road these days, i guess it's "too much work" for them.

[Rayzen17]

Yes its is proper problem what i highlighted. You got legendary what you got and you played with it no matter what and nobady demand after you to have bis one becouse nobady could control what legendary you had in early stages of game and as people start getting more and more legendary items and had more and more options to pick legendary item suddenly people start demanding bis legos for their runs becouse it become reasonable demand. At late stages where everybody had acess to their bis legos you you had to use bis ones or you would not get to do any content at all.

No it isnt stricly my problem. Thats literaly what will happen if you allow free swaping. You migh say how its is players problem as you want it wont change fact people will quit game becouse of it. Its game developer responsibility that player have fun playing. Its not player responsibility to have fun. Players and people in general behave way game is desinged and no sheer player will can change it. Thats why you desing game around how people behave in different type of game systems in order make game for for them. No just give them bunch of stuff and hope they will play fun way. Thats not how people behave.

And you are prove of this statement. You want to free swap becouse you want to be optimal in all possible situations and that fact you can be optimal in all situiations at any moment you want will trickle down entire playerbase and meta will be forced upon everyobody and this is what locking you into your choices prevents. When everybody knows that everybody is locked into their choices nobady can demand after youj to have bis conduits for mythic+ becouse you are alredy locked into different build. And becouse everybody is locked into different builds you have to play with suboptimal players or you are going to spent 5 hours looking for optimal players for that week to run 1 mythic+ or raid.

What do you think will be chance of finding mage with optimal condutits/covenant/talents/spec/legos for you mythic+ run? Oh yeah very close to 0. Do you know whjy? Becouse every mage is locked in into their choices they made and they cant free swap into meta.

No.. that was the issue.

What issue you're saying is that a player who is not prepared well, wants to join a group of players that are prepared well.
That is an issue for the player who is not prepared.

It's like applying your CV to a company. The company has a lot of applications, so they will take the one who is most qualified for the job.
To think that somehow it should apply differently to wow shows that you're naive in the way the world works.

I've declined plenty of applicants in wow and on the job based on their experience.. or lack of it.
This will continue happening in the future with poor choices too. Basically it changes nothing for the poor players.

If you actually look at what the covenants do, you will see that there will be a proper covenant for M+ for them and proper soulbind + conduits. If you think players won't pick the best ones, you're very mistaken.

[Popokolara]

Yes its is proper problem what i highlighted. You got legendary what you got and you played with it no matter what and nobady demand after you to have bis one becouse nobady could control what legendary you had in early stages of game and as people start getting more and more legendary items and had more and more options to pick legendary item suddenly people start demanding bis legos for their runs becouse it become reasonable demand. At late stages where everybody had acess to their bis legos you you had to use bis ones or you would not get to do any content at all.

No it isnt stricly my problem. Thats literaly what will happen if you allow free swaping. You migh say how its is players problem as you want it wont change fact people will quit game becouse of it. Its game developer responsibility that player have fun playing. Its not player responsibility to have fun. Players and people in general behave way game is desinged and no sheer player will can change it. Thats why you desing game around how people behave in different type of game systems in order make game for for them. No just give them bunch of stuff and hope they will play fun way. Thats not how people behave.

And you are prove of this statement. You want to free swap becouse you want to be optimal in all possible situations and that fact you can be optimal in all situiations at any moment you want will trickle down entire playerbase and meta will be forced upon everyobody and this is what locking you into your choices prevents. When everybody knows that everybody is locked into their choices nobady can demand after youj to have bis conduits for mythic+ becouse you are alredy locked into different build. And becouse everybody is locked into different builds you have to play with suboptimal players or you are going to spent 5 hours looking for optimal players for that week to run 1 mythic+ or raid.

What do you think will be chance of finding mage with optimal condutits/covenant/talents/spec/legos for you mythic+ run? Oh yeah very close to 0. Do you know whjy? Becouse every mage is locked in into their choices they made and they cant free swap into meta.

You are defending a shitty time proven system because....

....it "gives" people the nudge towards not demanding meta builds?



See you in the shadowlands.
Oh btw dont look back how ion each time has said
"It was wrong to restrict you"
Every. Fucking single.time.
But there are people like you love to make the same mistake 18394929292 times.

[Geckoo]

Legion legendaries are perfect example how restrictive systems breaks meta. At very start of Legion nobady was caring what legendary drop you had. But as players earned more and more legendary items along with vendor which removed restrictions becouse player could suddenly pick legendary item what they wanted. Bis legendary become demanded in every single pug. So yes less restriction = more demands on player side and more pushing towards meta.

People asked for more rpg elements in wow for very long time and was about time so we can finaly distinguished our playstyle from other hunter or mage without being pressure by community to have swaped into meta otherwise no invite or raid spot. In moment you let everybody swap into w/e they want community will again demand meta builds and thats what most people will not want to do but they will have to otherwise they wont get to do anything in game. So they will propably just leave becouse choice will be to do content boring way or not do content at all.

And meta will still exist. Each spec will still have good and bad choices in terms of performance, you are free to make every possible bad choice along the way, but do not expect other players to deal with them simply because you are locked to them. This is nothing new btw, it's how the game has worked since day 1 and there is nothing wrong about it either. When you decide to play with other people, your choices can impact their experience as much as their choices can impact yours.

What happens when meta still exists and some players are still denied from pugs because of their choices? what do we do next? lock talents for a month? ban players who change specs? allow just to have one piece of gear for each slot?

So maybe the solution should be related with bulding social systems that encourage playing in more closed and permament communities rather than trying to fix a problem that will naturally happen when playing with unknwon people.

[Mardux]

Legion legendaries are perfect example how restrictive systems breaks meta. At very start of Legion nobady was caring what legendary drop you had. But as players earned more and more legendary items along with vendor which removed restrictions becouse player could suddenly pick legendary item what they wanted. Bis legendary become demanded in every single pug. So yes less restriction = more demands on player side and more pushing towards meta.

People asked for more rpg elements in wow for very long time and was about time so we can finaly distinguished our playstyle from other hunter or mage without being pressure by community to have swaped into meta otherwise no invite or raid spot. In moment you let everybody swap into w/e they want community will again demand meta builds and thats what most people will not want to do but they will have to otherwise they wont get to do anything in game. So they will propably just leave becouse choice will be to do content boring way or not do content at all.

I really hope you dont actually think that...

Legiondaries were so important to plays that people were literally creating alts of the same class in Hope's that the right legiondaries would drop.

[Rayzen17]

I really hope you dont actually think that...

Legiondaries were so important to plays that people were literally creating alts of the same class in Hope's that the right legiondaries would drop.

He doesn't know that because he most likely doesn't do content where choices regarding player power actually matter.

And now it seems that we're heading the same with Covenants... i hope Blizzard comes to their senses sooner rather than later.

[Kuntantee]

Lol, I played TBC very extensivelly (probably over 200 days /played in TBC alone) and I never wanted to respec, it was still a really real cost. Especially since arena was introduced and doing arena in PvE spec as rogue was a 100% loss guaranteed. So in the end, pretty much everyone did PvP in sessions and then didn't touch it for another week if they also raided (as it was quite usual to raid 5 days a week in that time, it will be different if there is classic TBC).

You never wanted to respec because you were always broke. You also did not wanted to level your professions, or have a flying mount. You see, the game should not be designed for people who do not utilize the economy as intended. Asking gold for respec is a time gate, but it is not one week long time gate.

[Cracked]

You never wanted to respec because you were always broke. You also did not wanted to level your professions, or have a flying mount. You see, the game should not be designed for people who do not utilize the economy as intended. Asking gold for respec is a time gate, but it is not one week long time gate.

I had my epic flying and had my profs maxed out. Now arguably, I chose the worst profession as far as gold went (skinning / LW), but daily quest gold barely covered raid consumes.

[LordVargK]

Conduits don't even need to be changed every week. Just look at the effects and how they are applied. You will be able to create enough builds to be used in any given situation without replacing conduits at all.

But if you misplace one conduit, you are fucked
That should be reversible.

[kabshiel]

The big problem with the one week lockout is that it’s going to suck to get a great conduit drop, but not be able to use it for a week.

[Rayzen17]

Conduits don't even need to be changed every week. Just look at the effects and how they are applied. You will be able to create enough builds to be used in any given situation without replacing conduits at all.

But if you misplace one conduit, you are fucked
That should be reversible.

Well if you do more than play in one area of the game, then no, it's going to suck.
For example, going from raids to mythic +, you'd initially have ST Potency conduits and you'd want to change to AOE Potency conduits.

Realistically speaking, even though there are 3 soulbinds available for the covenant you chose. Only 1 is the best for any given role, be it DPS< healing or tanking.
So basically you do have 1 choice for maximum efficiency.

[LordVargK]

Well if you do more than play in one area of the game, then no, it's going to suck.
For example, going from raids to mythic +, you'd initially have ST Potency conduits and you'd want to change to AOE Potency conduits.

Realistically speaking, even though there are 3 soulbinds available for the covenant you chose. Only 1 is the best for any given role, be it DPS< healing or tanking.
So basically you do have 1 choice for maximum efficiency.

no. you have at least 3 paths per soulbind, meaning that you can use even one soulbind for more than one role and situation by socketing key conduits in the slots shared by all paths and the conduits you would like to switch out in the different paths.

[Rayzen17]

no. you have at least 3 paths per soulbind, meaning that you can use even one soulbind for more than one role and situation by socketing key conduits in the slots shared by all paths and the conduits you would like to switch out in the different paths.

Just try and do this with a soulbind and link the result in both cases like you envisioned it. Try and make an AOE and a ST build.
I'm curious what you get. Have fun.

https://shadowlands.wowhead.com/soul...elagos/warrior

[goldlock]

Just try and do this with a soulbind and link the result in both cases like you envisioned it. Try and make an AOE and a ST build.
I'm curious what you get. Have fun.

https://shadowlands.wowhead.com/soul...elagos/warrior

I mean its awful...but at least when your done your main progression be it mythic,mythic+ or pvp you have the option of swapping to something that will work for the other.

[Rayzen17]

I mean its awful...but at least when your done your main progression be it mythic,mythic+ or pvp you have the option of swapping to something that will work for the other.

Man... raiding occurs every week for months. Not every guild can clear mythic in mere weeks.
It means i'll never change from raiding. Does it sound like a fun system? :/

It also means being subpar for every activity other than raiding. But the biggest turnoff, is that i can't even experiment to make a satisfying build for me.
At this point it's exactly not even about following a meta. But restrictions will reinforce a meta.

[taishar68]

I think conduit choice will have less impact than covenant ability choice, which I already feel is low impact, so I don’t really care. I get the feeling most people won’t care, but the majority of people who post about it will care. And it’s enough that we’ve already seen some give by Blizzard. So keep fighting, eventually they’ll change it, I guess.

[goldlock]

Man... raiding occurs every week for months. Not every guild can clear mythic in mere weeks.
It means i'll never change from raiding. Does it sound like a fun system? :/

Every alternative power system is terrible at this point I just look for silver linings. While that sucks for you it means I can at least hit some pvp after mythic is done assuming there is some way to counter the overpowering might of nercolords ability to just ignore cc.

[Elias01]

I really hope you dont actually think that...

Legiondaries were so important to plays that people were literally creating alts of the same class in Hope's that the right legiondaries would drop.

No they didnt. Only one who were doing this were top 500 which isnt relevant for this discusion. Average mythic raider never done this kind of thing.