Would you like to go back to 3.3.5a classes

[kaminaris]

WAIT, WHAT?!

Hahahahahahaha

no.... current ones are 1000x worse than 3.3.5

and 3.3.5 were 10x worse than 5.4

If you want ideal class design- go to MOP.

Lol no, current ones are 10000000000x better than that braindead slap all-macro playstyle because there was no decision making.

Wotlk was first time when rotations weren't one button but they are still faaaaaar away from engaging and complex.
Vast majority of classes follow the same pattern:
If spell 1 is ready, use it
If spell 2 is ready, use it

and so on.

[Alkizon]

Yes, sure I would... and it's not even about any specific classes, but about general organization, principles of design. There're some complaints, that we once discussed regarding encounters and group interactions, but in general mostly classes are fine there. There is something to add, there is something to balance, but this won't affect overall picture. Also won't be surplus to add more extended system of characteristics from MoP to them.

Speaking of rotations, all that glitters is not gold. You don’t know what you’re talking about when you put an argument like this in front of the list (see 4th quote from 1st link + this: Obvious rotation deprives you of choice, long rotation deprives you of interest, limiting full set of spells to rotation at same time turns any process into monotonous repetition of it, regardless of what is happening, organizing content/encounters based on this principle deprives them of their lives (= interactivity), it seems that devs are playing for you and that even bot can cope with your task, maybe it'll do this even better than you).

[Gardoc]

Lol no, current ones are 10000000000x better than that braindead slap all-macro playstyle because there was no decision making.

Wotlk was first time when rotations weren't one button but they are still faaaaaar away from engaging and complex.
Vast majority of classes follow the same pattern:
If spell 1 is ready, use it
If spell 2 is ready, use it

and so on.

This is straight up lying. The skill ceiling is at all time low. There is almost no depth in class design nowadays, everything is builder spender + defensive/offensive cd + kick. Vast majority of classes follow the same pattern:
If not enough resource, use builder
If enough resource, use spender
If the spell is flashing, use it

You have to stop reading PVE guides and face the reality (and stop talking only about rotations, rotation is something you learn in 10 minutes, it has nothing to do with class complexity).

[RobertMugabe]

Boomkin 3.0 throughout WotLK was one of the best specs I've played in the game.

That's really it though for that expansion lol.

Boomkin was so much better in Cata and MoP tho... In Wrath all you do is you switch every 30sec between Wrath and Starfire (which you could macro into one button), while keeping Moonfire, FF and Insect Swarm up (which all had long durations). It was basically like playing a frost mage.

In Wrath, I've only really pvped as moonkin and otherwise I was always a healer, because they were so boring in raids.

- - - Updated - - -

MoP classes all the way.

I had so many alts; each one of them fun and viable.

EDIT: Cast while moving! OMG! So good!

tbh I agree... MoP was almost perfect. The classes however had too many spells, so I did welcome the changes in WoD. However, WoD was really unbalanced and the expansion in general wasn't good.

[Malikath]

This is straight up lying. The skill ceiling is at all time low. There is almost no depth in class design nowadays, everything is builder spender + defensive/offensive cd + kick. Vast majority of classes follow the same pattern:
If not enough resource, use builder
If enough resource, use spender
If the spell is flashing, use it

You have to stop reading PVE guides and face the reality (and stop talking only about rotations, rotation is something you learn in 10 minutes, it has nothing to do with class complexity).

that's literally all he does, lie.
I'm kinda surprised less people don't call him out on it.

[RobertMugabe]

It's a funny question to ask a forum where 95% of posters haven't played since 3.3.5 and many didn't play more then 2-3 specs. I think most people would be surprised to see the complexity of playing 3.3.5 Specs trying to maximize their potential. Enhance and Frost DK specs are much more difficult to play maximizing dps in 3.3.5 then retail.

Ah dude ffs shut up. To this day, I still regularly play on wrath private servers and DK is my main, while I also play a lot of arena as enh shaman and really neither of the specs need a big brain or practice haha.

Like, frost DK, srsly? ^^ Maybe that was a complex spec when you played it as a kid, but if you still think that today then that's pretty sad.

[heheszek]

pvpwise I would rly like to have 3.3.5 class design.. classes were more complex and there wre huge difference in skill cap, dmg was only a part of a game and dps meter wasnt a thing in arena(now its most important addon xd). Since mop the gap is lower and lower ofc part of it its players are generally better and have easier way to learn(more tutorials) but having 4dmg spells and 20non dmg spells(utility,cc, etc) then vs 15dmg spells and 4non dmg spells now is a key part here(numbers are random). If they removed corruption(dmg) they would probably have to add 50% starting dampening in arena matches, then if there were no dampening nobody would ever win a pvp match. It says a lot.. and back in the days there were no dampening. Matches were long only if both teams were equally good. Now (pre corruptions) every match was long just because "we wanna play a game(not being cced), we wanna do dmg, and we dont wanna die because we are bads" ideology, now its all f**ed because they added corruptions, essences and pve trinkets that deals 30% hp of dmg(after they nerfed similar pvp trinkets 'maledic' which were for some reason op)

maybe cata(worst expansion for many) was better, because it was a mix of old school and some newer design ... no idea it was so long ago I have had a good time during wotlk and then cata

Pve wise I dont know, probably newer patches/expansions are better (For most specs) because they put a lot of effort into pve, and back in the day pve was so much slower especially with early expansion patches(low mana etc)

[Gardoc]

Ah dude ffs shut up. To this day, I still regularly play on wrath private servers and DK is my main, while I also play a lot of arena as enh shaman and really neither of the specs need a big brain or practice haha.

Like, frost DK, srsly? ^^ Maybe that was a complex spec when you played it as a kid, but if you still think that today then that's pretty sad.

Compared to the BFA frost DK it was complex (but I agree that DK was never a complex class).

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pvpwise I would rly like to have 3.3.5 class design.. classes were more complex and there wre huge difference in skill cap, dmg was only a part of a game and dps meter wasnt a thing in arena(now its most important addon xd). Since mop the gap is lower and lower ofc part of it its players are generally better and have easier way to learn(more tutorials) but having 4dmg spells and 20non dmg spells(utility,cc, etc) then vs 15dmg spells and 4non dmg spells now is a key part here(numbers are random). If they removed corruption(dmg) they would probably have to add 50% starting dampening in arena matches, then if there were no dampening nobody would ever win a pvp match. It says a lot.. and back in the days there were no dampening. Matches were long only if both teams were equally good. Now (pre corruptions) every match was long just because "we wanna play a game(not being cced), we wanna do dmg, and we dont wanna die because we are bads" ideology, now its all f**ed because they added corruptions, essences and pve trinkets that deals 30% hp of dmg(after they nerfed similar pvp trinkets 'maledic' which were for some reason op)

maybe cata(worst expansion for many) was better, because it was a mix of old school and some newer design ... no idea it was so long ago I have had a good time during wotlk and then cata

Pve wise I dont know, probably newer patches/expansions are better (For most specs) because they put a lot of effort into pve, and back in the day pve was so much slower especially with early expansion patches(low mana etc)

This is a great summary, completely agree.

[Kehego]

Ah dude ffs shut up. To this day, I still regularly play on wrath private servers and DK is my main, while I also play a lot of arena as enh shaman and really neither of the specs need a big brain or practice haha.

Like, frost DK, srsly? ^^ Maybe that was a complex spec when you played it as a kid, but if you still think that today then that's pretty sad.

ps it bs bs ob ob ob ob and repeat
yay 3.xx frost dk
ps it bs bs ss ss ss ss
yay 3.xx unholy dk
hs hs ds ds hs hs hs hs hs hs
yay 3.xx blood dk

[Jabakaga]

That or Mop not sure which I liked more

[PenguinChan]

I'd mix new-age WoW + old-age unique playstyles of the past. Going back to play 3.3.5a WotLK is a treat but you quickly remember how good and smooth current WoW feels - even if a lot of shit feels samey (And the crappy GCD change). Cataclysm and MoP had more enjoyable specs IMO than WotLK - but it was the second iteration on refining each classes role and each specs role. Classic and TBC were the ground-work to what everyone loved in WotLK.

[Lex Icon]

i'd for sure like the ret version back..every iteration of it since have been dog shit.
blood dps was also pretty cool.

[Moromiro]

If DKs werent overpowered then definetly yes

[Lubefist]

I can imagine the rivers of tears from Ret players... OMG MUH DMG SUX WTF BLIZZ FIX NAO, while conveniently forgetting that they had the some of the strongest utility in the entire game.

Rets sucked balls no matter how you twist it. They didn't even have resilience in their pvp gear in the beginning lmao.

[Soon-TM]

Rets sucked balls no matter how you twist it. They didn't even have resilience in their pvp gear in the beginning lmao.

They sucked because their utility often went to waste in a raid setting, partly because of the raid design at the time (unlike say, shadow or elemental) - and in PvP they went oom far too quickly. The often wonky itemisation didn't help certainly.

But the main issue always was that Holy (sometimes even Prot, remember those "protrets" from WotLK?) provided everything Ret could - and more. The only things that Ret had going for it were quite underwhelming (Repentance and freedom'ing ppl out of stuns) and that really didn't change until WoD/Legion. Not that Ret became a powerhouse in either PvP or PvE...

[Tojara]

MoP and WoD had the best feeling classes in my opinion, I'd actually agree that WoTLK was pretty far up there as well, considering all of the classes were built upon up to that point and then reigned back some in Cataclysm.

You can like whatever expansion you like, but I feel like people turn a blind eye to both MoP and WoD for how well a lot of the classes played in those expansions. WoD had lots of failures, but the majority of the classes felt amazing and the raids were good. It doesn't excuse the lack of other content, but disregarding how things played is silly. It appears a lot of people dismiss MoP because of "lol pandas", when it equally had very good classes as well.

WoD/MoP > WoTLK > TBC/Cata > Legion > BFA > Vanilla.

So no, I'd rather go to a WoD/MoP timeline if I had a choice.

Also borrowed power is such a buzzword, and kinda detracts from a lot of arguments IMO. BFA wasn't great, sure. But literally every other expansion has tier sets, which in a sense a short term borrowed power that's designed to be replaced every six months (except in super early expansions and Legion, where TF and 4/2 piece sets were a thing). Classes feeling bad in the last couple expansions has nothing to do with borrowed power, and has everything to do with the classes being stripped down, dull and them failing to innovate between expansions. Vanilla through WoTLK was a natural progression, Cataclysm was a bit of a dip, but then followed the same trend through MoP/WoD, before it went the other way again. I can't in good faith place Vanilla having classes 'feeling' good, because the talent trees are way too bare bones and classes (while defined) are wildly imbalanced beyond belief. This doesn't make vanilla bad, it just makes it poor class wise when comparing to other iterations of the game.

[ElsaHosk]

I forget what my class played like back then. But I did enjoy the game more during 3.3.5, so I'll give it a... "Possibly?"

[melzas]

Things haven't changed a lot in that regard, just saying...

I main resto shaman and I did change A LOT. Unless you are hyperbad resto, then maybe.

[Lubefist]

They sucked because their utility often went to waste in a raid setting, partly because of the raid design at the time (unlike say, shadow or elemental) - and in PvP they went oom far too quickly. The often wonky itemisation didn't help certainly.

But the main issue always was that Holy (sometimes even Prot, remember those "protrets" from WotLK?) provided everything Ret could - and more. The only things that Ret had going for it were quite underwhelming (Repentance and freedom'ing ppl out of stuns) and that really didn't change until WoD/Legion. Not that Ret became a powerhouse in either PvP or PvE...

You couldn't BoF out of stuns in TBC.

And yeah, I remember protret. My man Foremanator was first to run it with success.

[Sughs]

I loved Arms Warrior back then so sign me in!