Sentenced to life imprisonment for trying to steal hedge clippers.

[melodramocracy]

Systemic reform, and letting him the fuck out of prison after 2 decades behind bars for trying to steal a pair of hedge trimmers.

He ain't exactly a dangerous threat to society that requires taxpayers to spend over half a million dollars to keep him off the streets for the past 2 decades, and another half million + for the remainder of his life.

Wanna know why tax dollars are being blown and nothing seems to be done with them? A lot of dumb shit like blowing a million+ on keeping a dude behind bars for a pair of $40 hedge trimmers.

What does this mean exactly, aside from a nebulous catch phrase?

What specific steps would be taken to encourage a repeat offender to not carry out <insert crime here> again?

[Edge-]

What does this mean exactly, aside from a nebulous catch phrase?

What specific steps would be taken to encourage a repeat offender to not carry out <insert crime here> again?

A huge host of things, but it mostly speaks to looking at our current system of laws, law enforcement, and criminal justice to see if they're accomplishing their goals (they're not), and then evaluating options to improve the systems to achieve better outcomes that reduce criminality, especially recidivism which remains a persistent problem in the US, while keeping people safe.

Much of that likely also includes greatly expanding social safety nets and working on addressing persistent and generational poverty that remains a primary driver of crime in the US.

It's not a nebulous catchphrase, but a very far reaching idea at revisiting how we think society should work in the best interests of all, rather than just the best interests of those in power when laws were created.

[melodramocracy]

A huge host of things, but it mostly speaks to looking at our current system of laws, law enforcement, and criminal justice to see if they're accomplishing their goals (they're not), and then evaluating options to improve the systems to achieve better outcomes that reduce criminality, especially recidivism which remains a persistent problem in the US, while keeping people safe.

Much of that likely also includes greatly expanding social safety nets and working on addressing persistent and generational poverty that remains a primary driver of crime in the US.

It's not a nebulous catchphrase, but a very far reaching idea at revisiting how we think society should work in the best interests of all, rather than just the best interests of those in power when laws were created.

And that's the thing (and this is probably getting off topic), but you list "evaluating options" while not actually providing any specifics. My intent here isn't to single you out as an individual, just stating that we have a mis-alignment between wanting people in a functioning society to not be repeat criminals, yet arguing that the current system isn't working.

If it isn't working, but no actual better idea is provided, well... a whole lot of nothing is going to be done.

Aside from a new economic model that leaves no individual behind, what steps can be taken now to ensure that a given individual no longer is inclined to partake in theft? What "should" be done to provide security for society in general without being an overly harsh punishment to the individual?

[Edge-]

And that's the thing (and this is probably getting off topic), but you list "evaluating options" while not actually providing any specifics.

I'm sorry that I, a non-expert, don't have an easy answer to give you for a very complex and wide ranging issue at the drop of a hat.

My intent here isn't to single you out as an individual, just stating that we have a mis-alignment between wanting people in a functioning society to not be repeat criminals, yet arguing that the current system isn't working.

We really don't though, it's mostly down to a lack of will to do anything about it because the people disproportionately affected by the problem (poor people, which includes an even greater disproportionate number of poor black folks) don't have any actual power to change it. And those that do, don't much care because it doesn't actually impact them and their own.

The people pushing for systemic reform have a huge host of possible solutions that can be enacted at local, state, and national levels and draw from successes that other countries have had in their criminal justice systems with far, far lower rates of crime and recidivism than in the US.

If it isn't working, but no actual better idea is provided, well... a whole lot of nothing is going to be done.

Again, that would be mistaking a lack of will to do something with an inability to do something.

It's like saying "The government can't solve poverty." when you mean "I don't think the government should solve poverty." The former is a gussied up way to sanitize your (the royal you, not you specifically) belief that poor people deserve to be poor and that government shouldn't do anything to address poverty.

Aside from a new economic model that leaves no individual behind, what steps can be taken now to ensure that a given individual no longer is inclined to partake in theft? What "should" be done to provide security for society in general without being an overly harsh punishment to the individual?

Well, systemic change takes time. What are the shorter term solutions? I wouldn't know, especially since they may different from state to state or county to county based on each unique situation.

I ain't coming here claiming to have answers, because I don't. But I am coming here to say that the current system continues to fail and we need to look into a way to make it work.

[Saltysquidoon]

What does this mean exactly, aside from a nebulous catch phrase?

Criminal justice fixes
Remove mandatory minimum sentences, these are a borderline unlawful impingement on the freedom of the judiciary and are proven to do nothing but exponentially (in the order of 300 to 500% depending on the country) inflate prison population numbers (almost like that's the point).

Remove "three-strike" laws, see above but also the whole point of sentencing discretion is a judge can impose a harsher sentence for repeat offenders. This should not be the legislative body's job

Stop inflaming the public with pointless tough on crime rhetoric for easy votes, it does nothing but massively inflate sentences and the actual number of offences on the books.

Slash bail amounts for petty nonviolent crimes (isn't there some amendment against that?). Be honest, what reasonable hope does even a middle-class person have of getting access to $25k liquid capital outside of business hours?

Decriminalise small quantity drug possession offences. All these do is serve to give young people records to perpetuate cycles of poverty and clog up the court system with pointless cases.

Abolish for-profit prisons so the state is not incentivised to rely on tough on crime rhetoric and isn't giving companies more money then it would cost to do it on their own.

Hugely lower sentence guidelines for non-violent petty crimes, I'm talking sentences in the month range not lowering the number of years. Based on recidivism rates prison alone is proven not to be an effective crime deterrent ergo it's a waste of everyone's time and money from the offender to the state.

Seal non-violent/non-sexual criminal records, a huge problem with recidivism is once someone has a record they can't even get a job if they try which means the only option is crime.

Stop criminalising mental health issues

General social fixes
Socialise Helathcare
Subsidise Education (and stop basing it on surrounding property taxes ensuring poor children get poor schools like seriously what the fuck is wrong with the US)
Provide social safety nets
Stop being systemically racist leading to young people and minorities being needlessly involved in the criminal justice system.


Seriously the idea that no one knows what the problem is and there is nothing to be done is a myth. The US criminal justice system exists as a means to win votes and support the for-profit prison system.

[infinit]

Man, some people have really weird torture boners.



We don't imprison people for crimes they haven't been caught for or convicted of here in the US.

no need to, he already got caught doing enough.

lowlife should of had his freedom forfeit at the armed robbery.

[Saltysquidoon]

no need to, he already got caught doing enough.

lowlife should of had his freedom forfeit at the armed robbery.

How much do you have invested in GEO and of the answer is zero dollars why are you doing a company's work for free?

[Tabrotar]

Fair point on the former, but you didn't say the latter either -



So again, even by this measure of "high levels of theft", they don't. They're overwhelming below the top quartile, with most being in the bottom half of countries in that study.



Actually, it does appear to reduce theft, at least. So yeah, give them bread and netflix, yo.

Yeah, shure, that will stop these organized east european groups which send their pawns to germany to break in and then get back after they did their quota, free netflix and something to eat...

Must be nice to live in a constant dream like land where stuff like that doesn´t exists.

[Volatilis]

With the exception of the armed robbery the other ones are non violent, failed and even outright simply just petty...."attempted forgery of a check worth $150"....like for real.

Yeah he should have forged a bigger cheque!?!?!

[Tabrotar]

Yeah, we have been ignoring the drug epidemic in America and been treating it as a criminal problem. Like I said, these people need help.

Hey, i activly choose to do drugs and then i activly choose to steal and do other shit, but it´s not my own fault, it´s the drugs, they made me do it.

FFS get your ass out og your head and start living in reality.

[Edge-]

Yeah, shure, that will stop these organized east european groups which send their pawns to germany to break in and then get back after they did their quota, free netflix and something to eat...

Must be nice to live in a constant dream like land where stuff like that doesn´t exists.

Are we now solving problems in other countries? You gotta warn me if we're moving the goalposts to the other hemisphere.

[Tabrotar]

Are we now solving problems in other countries? You gotta warn me if we're moving the goalposts to the other hemisphere.

Please, who brought up other countrys to show how good it´s over there?

Oh riight that was you mate. Maybe thiink before posting stuff to point out how "good" it is in other countrys.

[Edge-]

Please, who brought up other countrys to show how good it´s over there?

As a point of comparison to show that policies like stronger social safety nets statistically lead to lower rates of theft, which someone argued was untrue.

And you're here arguing about people coming in from other countries and committing crimes, which had precisely fuckall to do with the discussion.

Oh riight that was you mate. Maybe thiink before posting stuff to point out how "good" it is in other countrys.

Objectively, countries with stronger social safety nets have lower rates of theft than in the US.

That's factual, it doesn't care what you feel about it.

[Sunseeker]

Minor robberies every few years? I mean, that's fucking annoying but not life-in-prison worthy no matter how many strikes. Slip him in an orange jumpsuit and make him do some roadside cleanup until he's done enough work to pay for whatever petty bullshit he did and let him go.

Christ, the amount of money we spent to lock this guy up is the REAL robbery here. 'Cons want to bitch about expanded unemployment but we basically just paid this guy 25k/yr (about 2k/mo or 480/wk) to do nothing. Fuck.

[infinit]

How much do you have invested in GEO and of the answer is zero dollars why are you doing a company's work for free?

if it was up to me he would have a bullet in his head for the armed robbery.

save the taxpayers millions and one less human scum on this planet.

[Saltysquidoon]

if it was up to me he would have a bullet in his head for the armed robbery.

save the taxpayers millions and one less human scum on this planet.

And instead, he's lining a private corporation's pockets at the expense of your tax dollars.

It would seem your comic book need to remove 'scum' has resulted in the loss of your nose in spite of your face.

[infinit]

And instead, he's lining a private corporation's pockets at the expense of your tax dollars.

It would seem your comic book need to remove 'scum' has resulted in the loss of your nose in spite of your face.

unfortunately its not up to me, but hes better in prison than out terrorising innocent people.

[Ihavewaffles]

Steal hundreds/thousands? Life in prison. Steal billions? Too big to fail.

How many jobs depend on that guy?

[Saltysquidoon]

How many jobs depend on that guy?

Oh, so worker exploitation abrogates theft? We should apologise to the team over at Enron for banging them up then.

[Ihavewaffles]

Oh, so worker exploitation abrogates theft? We should apologise to the team over at Enron for banging them up then.

My focus was on the workers, doesn't US have enough homeless? Or do u need more to punish rich people that'll stay rich regardless?...

This is as pointless as sanctions against rich powerful foreign leaders, when sanctions really hit the people instead while claiming to be on their side.

One can't fix the world with lashing out...