SL better be Alt / Spec / Systems switch friendly

[Schmilblick]

God, with all those sub-systems that are Souldbinds, Conduits and legendaries, it will be a mess to switch between classes or even between specs, so I hope that SL is really Alt / Spec / Systems switch friendly or it will be very bad for every kind of player, be it hardcore or casual.

[Ledox]

Another pre expension lies. SL could be more alt friendly than BFA, thats all...

[TheBull300]

Nothing blizzard does is alt friendly these days

[Tumble]

They just need to go back to the model when subs were at thier highest. Raiding provided top pve gear, all pvp gear was purchased from a vendor, including the previous seasons for just honor. You had rep based gear early on, and there was none of this borrowed power bullshit other than what came from tier gear. Those were the days.

[crusadernero]

They just need to go back to the model when subs were at thier highest. Raiding provided top pve gear, all pvp gear was purchased from a vendor, including the previous seasons for just honor. You had rep based gear early on, and there was none of this borrowed power bullshit other than what came from tier gear. Those were the days.

Yes, yes and yes! Back then there still was gear to chase or boss fights that were a challenge(like Ulduar with hardmode features), and the very best gear dropped from it. But at the very least, everyone got the chance to gear decently up in a nice pace. Since Legion we have gotten more and more systems that require more and more worthless grinding.

It was bad in BfA, its only going to be worse in SL. At the start of BfA I managed to keep a few characters relevant but as time went on it got more and more frustrating and annoying. WHen 8.3 launched I just unsubbed alltogether since I knew there was alot of grinding to be done.

Why they keep on making these features and systems? I really dont know, maybe its to make our classes feel cooler/Better to play. If so, thats a bullshit excuse. They should double down on making each class & spec being enjoyable from the very core, not when you have grinded out some borrowed power that will be gone in 2 years time.

I feel that people and Blizzard are to obsessed about making many features that have power progression and they add stuff beyond just gear. Back in the day gameplay was in the front seat, not so much now.

[Doffen]

They just need to go back to the model when subs were at thier highest. Raiding provided top pve gear, all pvp gear was purchased from a vendor, including the previous seasons for just honor. You had rep based gear early on, and there was none of this borrowed power bullshit other than what came from tier gear. Those were the days.

So,WoD? We know how that went.

Legion with borrowed power had 20% more MAUs(year to year it was 10%) for a good while than 2 months into HfC when WoD had 6 million subs or so according to blizzards earning calls. Its not wether its borrowed power or not, its how they do it. When classic doubled the amount of subs in BfA when it launched, it should tell how much less players than approx 7.5-8 million during Legions peak BfA managed to keep. I don't think borrowed power is the main reason for the gaps though. But of course, if you don't like borrowed power it sucks no matter what, and thats not cool those players, I feel ya.

SL is alt friendly to me because it has different content, rewards, abilities, gameplay options that makes it fun to log alts and play them. I am going to have at least 4 characters up and running within the first two weeks. Looking forward to it.

[Jamais]

You are supposed to have 1 main and maybe 2-3 reasonably prepared alts. Anything beyond that is at your own accord, but the game should not and will not cater around that.

This is not a MOBA.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

No, unfortunately it looks like going to be as bad or even worse than Legion for alts.

You are going to be absolutely screwed if you want to play more than 2-3 characters.

[crusadernero]

You are supposed to have 1 main and maybe 2-3 reasonably prepared alts. Anything beyond that is at your own accord, but the game should not and will not cater around that.

This is not a MOBA.

There can, and should be, somewhat of a middle road taken in this. It doesnt need to be so easy that you can have 10 characters ready to go, but it shouldnt be so bad that you cant be bothered with more than 1.

Especially when the reason is mindnumbing, useless and boring farming of content that you have already done. Farming that often takes alot of time.

Besides, the game is over 15 years old. Its not weird that alot of people have many max lvl characters they enjoy to play. Having the chance to switch class and not feel like you have weeks of slug to push through before you can do current content, aint a bad thing. In the last half of BfA it got clear that it was going to be a huge pain in the ass to switch class.

Theres a middle road to be taken here, it doesnt need to be the extreme either way.

- - - Updated - - -

So,WoD? We know how that went.

Legion with borrowed power had 20% more MAUs(year to year it was 10%) for a good while than 2 months into HfC when WoD had 6 million subs or so according to blizzards earning calls. Its not wether its borrowed power or not, its how they do it. When classic doubled the amount of subs in BfA when it launched, it should tell how much less players than approx 7.5-8 million during Legions peak BfA managed to keep. I don't think borrowed power is the main reason for the gaps though. But of course, if you don't like borrowed power it sucks no matter what, and thats not cool those players, I feel ya.

SL is alt friendly to me because it has different content, rewards, abilities, gameplay options that makes it fun to log alts and play them. I am going to have at least 4 characters up and running within the first two weeks. Looking forward to it.

Thats probably the cool thing with SL; If you have 4 characters, you get to experience 4 unique covenants that you cant access on other characters.

[Vrinara]

Title sounds like a threat. So I must ask. OR WHAT? You gonna cry and whine on the forums more? lol

[Justpassing]

Title sounds like a threat. So I must ask. OR WHAT? You gonna cry and whine on the forums more? lol

Reminds me of a thread in reddit where someone kept getting messages like "Send nudes or I'll blow my brains up" with a picture of a gun attached.

Could be a good idea!

[Niwes]

God, with all those sub-systems that are Souldbinds, Conduits and legendaries, it will be a mess to switch between classes or even between specs, so I hope that SL is really Alt / Spec / Systems switch friendly or it will be very bad for every kind of player, be it hardcore or casual.

i had high hopes for the same thing, after i heard Ion about 6-8 months ago.

my stance as a beta player of SL is now: lower your hopes. when you thought

- Legion with legendaries, ap and that argus items (cant remember name)
- or BfA with ap, essences, azerite gear and corrupted items
- or the trizillion quests and shit BfA had, for every toon

was way too much, you will have no good time in SL either. switching your main halfway in xpac, will be a nightmare.

its the same or even more horrible shit.

- - - Updated - - -

Nothing blizzard does is alt friendly these days

this is the correct, short form, of what i said above.

[Mefistophelis]

They just need to go back to the model when subs were at thier highest. Raiding provided top pve gear, all pvp gear was purchased from a vendor, including the previous seasons for just honor. You had rep based gear early on, and there was none of this borrowed power bullshit other than what came from tier gear. Those were the days.

If they do what you say, how will they keep their Monthly Active Users their new profit metric... they have become profit seekers now. The utopia of the past will never return.

[Grimbold21]

Let's see about alt-friendlyness.

In Classic, I had a main and an alt. In TBC a main and two alts. In Wotlk a main and 6 alts. This went on and on....and now in BfA I have something like 20 lv 120 characters.

But ofc I guess it comes down to what you think "alt friendly" means. In TBC I just accepted that due to attunements and the rep grind, my alts just could not raid. Apparently these days, a game is only alt friendly when you can have all your alts instantly at the same power level as your main, so one day you do your mythic+15 on your main and the next day you do it on an alt that just dinged 120

Or how do I have to understand this? Since people like to point to how "other MMOs" do things (so much better) - is there even an MMO that allows you to catch up so fast?

The existence of multiple max level alts does not necessarily reflect the game's friendliness towards alts.

I would risk saying that you make a contradiction in regard to older rep grind, because, barring dungeon lockouts, you could farm it as much as you like. BFA's rep farming is seemingly more limited in that aspect.

It's necessarily "I want all my characters at the same power level as my main, and fast". Were my main 470 ilvl, and my alts 430, I would have no issues with farming my up to that ilvl if the path were simply about farming gear via traditional means.
Instead, not only do you have to do that, but you also need to go through the entire farming process involved with the new systems they've added.

That's the entire reason I stopped playing as soon as Ny'alotha patch hit. I had 3 characters around the same ilvl, plus a few more. I wasn't a raider, just casually doing m+. But the moment I understood I had to do visions, cloak and whatever other crap they introduced, across 6 different characters, I was done.

[Packmule]

It wont be, blizzard will make sure of it!

[Doffen]

Thats probably the cool thing with SL; If you have 4 characters, you get to experience 4 unique covenants that you cant access on other characters.

Yeah, that's what I think is cool and is important when it comes to alt friendliness. That's why I think it was nice with alts in Legion too, it was 12 different Class Hall with different kind of quests, rewards and so on.

[Demeisen]

Let's see about alt-friendlyness.

In Classic, I had a main and an alt. In TBC a main and two alts. In Wotlk a main and 6 alts. This went on and on....and now in BfA I have something like 20 lv 120 characters.

But ofc I guess it comes down to what you think "alt friendly" means. In TBC I just accepted that due to attunements and the rep grind, my alts just could not raid. Apparently these days, a game is only alt friendly when you can have all your alts instantly at the same power level as your main, so one day you do your mythic+15 on your main and the next day you do it on an alt that just dinged 120

Or how do I have to understand this? Since people like to point to how "other MMOs" do things (so much better) - is there even an MMO that allows you to catch up so fast?

To be competitive in endgame PvE content in FFXIV, I have to:

• Level to the level cap.
• Farm endgame gear.

I can even farm endgame gear for my alt classes on my main class.

To be competitive in endgame PvE content in BFA, I have to:

• Level to the level cap.
• Farm endgame gear.
• Hope the azerite gear that drops has reasonably good azerite traits for my spec.
• Wait at least 3 weeks to obtain Breath of the Dying 3 (3 weekly quests) or Essence of the Focusing Iris 3 (3 weekly chests) or Worldvein Resonance 3 (3 weekly quests), Memory of Lucid Dreams 3 (Nazjatar follower exp), or Condensed Life Force 3 (Palace lockouts).
• Farm 30,000 honor to obtain Blood of the Enemy 3.
• Farm ranked PvP to obtain Conflict and Strife 3 (likely 3-4 weeks, depending on how high your rating is).
• Alternatively, buy those essences if I've farmed them on my main, but eating into my echoes count which I need to buy corruptions or cloak upgrades.
• Assuming I don't screw up any visions runs, farm 14,000 coalescing visions and run visions at least 14 times to rank legendary cloak up to 15.
• Wait until MOTHER rotates to my spec's corruptions, and farm ~40,000+ echoes to buy those corruptions.
• Farm N'zoth and run visions every week, and farm echoes beyond the ~40,000 I've farmed to buy corruptions, to increase corruption resistance so I can wear the corruptions I've bought.
• Complete my titanic research tree (likely ~4 weeks) and thereafter farm mementos for sockets on my endgame gear.

[dcc626]

No, unfortunately it looks like going to be as bad or even worse than Legion for alts.

You are going to be absolutely screwed if you want to play more than 2-3 characters.

if you think doing 2 quersts a week to cap reknown and 2 floors of torghast for legendary mats is worse than an infinite AP grind, i dont know what to tell you.

- - - Updated - - -

It wont be, blizzard will make sure of it!

and even if they dont players will whine incessantly about it online (and continue to play anyway)

[spleen1015]

Depends on what you think alt friendly means and what you want to get out of your alts.

I loved alts in Legion because the class hall storylines were great and there was a class mount to go after.

I plan to run at least 4 characters in SL so that I can experience all of the Convenant stories.

Maybe it is too much to ask, but if the story and rewards are worth it, then the grind is ok. With BfA, there was a lot to do, but none of it was fun or felt worth it. My biggest disappoint with BfA was essences. You can't put some of the best ones behind content that people don't like to play. I think it is bad design to have the best essence for raiding to be locked behind a pretty long PvP grind.

[Doffen]

Depends on what you think alt friendly means and what you want to get out of your alts.

I loved alts in Legion because the class hall storylines were great and there was a class mount to go after.

I plan to run at least 4 characters in SL so that I can experience all of the Convenant stories.

Maybe it is too much to ask, but if the story and rewards are worth it, then the grind is ok. With BfA, there was a lot to do, but none of it was fun or felt worth it.

+++

This is exactly how I feel too, and I am so looking forward to Shadowlands so I can do the whole Covenant campaigns on different characters. Also, a meaningful grind is a good grind.