Affliction's lack of tankiness

[Saltysquidoon]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=13
Just in case you try to be silly, and argue that I'm incorrect, I'm not.

Is no one going to bring up the Destro lock in the same log uses the same number of spells as the fire mage?

[Ryuushima]

The only reason mages are harder to kill during a fight is because they're mobile. Mages don't take less damage than warlocks.
Are you happier now that the obvious thing that you were supposed to already understand is now explained to you in more detailed words?

Do I need to go on or have you been informed of where your place is?

You claim I'm 100% wrong but you're the one building a strawman with pve graphs in a pvp argument. What's next, is there a rock bottom to this idiocy or I'll have to watch you eat your own shit to prove a point that never existed in the first place?

No wonder we have bullshit arguments when players don't even understand how classes survive in a fight.

What the heck is your problem. While I agree with some of your points it is absolutely unneeded to curse as much as you do. Noticing it in multiple of your posts. Calm down already.

Also concerning this topic, legion affliction warlock was amusing as a draintank but it was clearly beyond broken. While I do miss facetanking as affliction warlock I think warlock in shadowlands ( especially affliction ) is finally becoming the way a warlock should be. With curse of exhaustion combined with the teleports and dots on an enemy it becomes very painful to play against. While I don't plan to main a warlock in shadowlands I surely look forward to having one as an alt, to annoy the heck out of people with curse of exhaustion.

[Dancaris]

So with that crazy selfhealing, HS and average more hp you lack of it?

[Hayduke]

The main type of survivabolity I think is lacking for Aff is being able to have dps pets take aggro and reliably tank for the Warlock without always having to rely on the less damaging Voidwalker. Hunter pets can damage and tank. It sucks that Warlock demons are so useless for tanking for the Warlock unless it's specifically the Voidwalker for Aff and Destro, because the specs push you in the direction of certain damaging pets and the Voidwalker doesn't do comparable damage and there's no way to change this through talents or anything - no way to make the Voidwalker damaging, or make the actual pets you care about able to tank for you. If those pets only got tankier in the specs they were good in as a kind of Warlock passive, that'd be fine. In terms of survivability that's mainly what I'd want and look forward to in Aff and Destro, is having the Felpuppy tankier as Aff and Imp tankier for Destro.

uh I am pretty sure they normalized all pets doing the same damage aside from their utility. People actually do use VW in dungeons because it has that AOE ability that can make it marginally better

[Elise the Seeker]

If they made Demon Armor Baseline or brought Fel Armor back, this issue could simply be fixed.

[CrawlFromThePit]

What the heck is your problem. While I agree with some of your points it is absolutely unneeded to curse as much as you do. Noticing it in multiple of your posts. Calm down already.

I'll curse for as long as people are being wrong and stupid.
I'll calm down when they learn.

Having to deal with there retardation is harder than seeing a few "big werdz" in a post. I'm not the problem here.

[Lucrece]

Oh, the toolkit is not terrible at all. They are really solid.
The survivability might be a weakness but they have few others.

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PvP is just a mini-game in WoW. It has never been the focus what so ever.
More or less like pet battles but with less actual content.

It might be a minigame, but with associated aesthetic rewards gated behind high rankings in competitive formats, so PvP balance still matters to those for whom the aesthetics are important.

Just because something isn't important to you doesn't mean it does not matter for other people.

And the fact is that unless a warlock spec is overtuned, there's little reason to bring one over a mage or other caster with an immunity (cough revamped shadow priest who's massively outhealing the fucking caster initially designed to lifedrain) because their defenses have been so cut down as a backlash to Legion that the fact that warlocks operate as turrets and the slowest class in the game without burning rush becomes a liability.

[CrawlFromThePit]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man



Love it when the guy who is telling everyone else they are dumb is misusing terms in his own argument. Just the best.

Well thanks for proving me right in every possible way.

A straw man (sometimes written as strawman) is a form of argument and an informal fallacy of having the impression of refuting an argument, meanwhile the proper idea of argument under discussion was not addressed or properly refuted.

The guy builds a strawman about PvE rotation in a PvP discussion.
The guy tries to make an argument about mobility not affecting survivability, again, a strawman.
You can even use these examples and compare them to the examples given in the wiki you linked and realize it's the same kind of situation.

Putting up a link doesn't make you right, specially when you don't read or can't even understand what you link.

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This ^

Plus @CrawlFromThePit, simply picking Netherwind Armor reduces damage by atleast 7-8% on average, which is enough for a Mage to be tankier than an Affliction Warlock.

Why are you not moving your character or using your defensives?

[Ihazpaws]

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PvP is just a mini-game in WoW. It has never been the focus what so ever.
More or less like pet battles but with less actual content.

Maybe for you it is but for many it is not. Pve is for me a minigame and way to get gear for pvp as it is for big part of player base. So stop being toxic piece of poopoo and learn some manners, world does not spin around your belly.

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If they made Demon Armor Baseline or brought Fel Armor back, this issue could simply be fixed.

They need to buff also Demon armor back to atleast 10% stam or more. I loved when locks actually had tons of health, almost same as tanks. Heck, unpopular opinnion but I loved when destro locks had selfheals in Mop.

[Rinaul]

Healthstone can only be used once per fight, this is next to worthless.

I'm pretty sure they said they changed the cds of pots in combat (which healthstone has counted on and off as one) for SL and making them a 3 min CD iirc

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A class is tanky..... because...... they're.....wait for it...... mobile?

In no way shape or form does anyone consider mobility a form of tankiness*, in WoW, in PvP, in any game. Tankiness* means you're ability to take damage, your ability to mitigate damage, not damage avoidance. Classes/Roles with high mobility are squishy, not tanky. As having both would be way too much for other classes/roles who lack one or the other to handle.

There is no need to even address anything else you've stated because your very first statement is 100% factually false. Does it make you feel better to try and be rude and condescening even though you're 100% completely wrong?

You mitigate 100% of the damage you don't take.

[enigma77]

I'm pretty sure they said they changed the cds of pots in combat (which healthstone has counted on and off as one) for SL and making them a 3 min CD iirc

It does not work this way in Beta.

[agentsi]

I'm pretty sure they said they changed the cds of pots in combat (which healthstone has counted on and off as one) for SL and making them a 3 min CD iirc

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You mitigate 100% of the damage you don't take.

No, that's called avoidance. You're avoiding damage, not mitigating it. Mitigating indicates you're taking damage, but less than you should be. You cannot mitigate damage that you are not taking.


Why are people so purposely obtuse. High mobility classes/roles/etc are never tanky in terms of damage mitigation. FFS....Not complicated.

[Aggrophobic]

Maybe for you it is but for many it is not. Pve is for me a minigame and way to get gear for pvp as it is for big part of player base. So stop being toxic piece of poopoo and learn some manners, world does not spin around your belly.

No, thats Blizzards take on it, not mine. It's you being toxic here though.

[Nestalim]

I'll curse for as long as people are being wrong and stupid.
I'll calm down when they learn.

Having to deal with there retardation is harder than seeing a few "big werdz" in a post. I'm not the problem here.

that is why you're still single bud.

[Lucrece]

No, that's called avoidance. You're avoiding damage, not mitigating it. Mitigating indicates you're taking damage, but less than you should be. You cannot mitigate damage that you are not taking.


Why are people so purposely obtuse. High mobility classes/roles/etc are never tanky in terms of damage mitigation. FFS....Not complicated.

Tell that to rogues/DH. Mage is also disgustingly tanky in SL with alter time among its other tools.

Either way, you're making a distinction without a difference. Avoidance, mitigation, it doesn't matter since at the end of the day what's being measured is a class's average survivability as a measure of how often it is a kill target and its longevity in arena matches.

And the fact is that mages and rogues are rarely the kill target for a reason. They're virtually given 9 lives through their evasion.

[Schirmy]

- Fel Armor giving back % of health every x seconds.
- Demon Armor increasing healing received by 30% and more armor for physical damage reduction.
- Shadow Ward and then Twilight Ward.
- Haunt heal upon return.
- Siphon Life heal.
- Soul Link
- Soul Swap
- Fel Flame extending UA

Affy's lack of tankiness really began in MoP when you had active defensive cooldowns like Dark Regen, Sac Pact, and Unending Resolve. Anyway, all that stuff removed above in the name of muh class fantasy; this game is dog shit.

[Narwhalosh Whalescream]

Back in mop we could have a passive 30% DR, but sacrificing any active cooldown. Was cool in the last months where you had 1 mil hp, chaos bolts that hit several mils.

[Rinaul]

No, that's called avoidance. You're avoiding damage, not mitigating it. Mitigating indicates you're taking damage, but less than you should be. You cannot mitigate damage that you are not taking.


Why are people so purposely obtuse. High mobility classes/roles/etc are never tanky in terms of damage mitigation. FFS....Not complicated.

Nah. Avoidance is a trash stat that just takes up the place for a potentially good stat.

[thrill]

So with that crazy selfhealing, HS and average more hp you lack of it?

Afflictions self healing is actually pretty terrible in BFA/SL. Siphon life does practically nothing, and drain life does very little in pvp unless you have a bunch of inevitable demise stacks. That's to say nothing of the impractically of actually channeling it against decent players as a spec with only one spell school, or the prohibitive mana cost without the existence of lifetap.

Nowadays classes like DH, DK, leeching poison rogue, etc. have way better self healing, and that's without sacrificing much (or any) dps to do so.

Pretty much all the corner stones of affliction gameplay of yesteryear are gone. It's no longer about rotting with dots, or sustaining with self heals, it's a combo spec all about about setting up burst windows for malefic rapture/dark glare/drain soul/death bolt.

[Lucrece]

Afflictions self healing is actually pretty terrible in BFA/SL. Siphon life does practically nothing, and drain life does very little in pvp unless you have a bunch of inevitable demise stacks. That's to say nothing of the impractically of actually channeling it against decent players as a spec with only one spell school, or the prohibitive mana cost without the existence of lifetap.

Nowadays classes like DH, DK, leeching poison rogue, etc. have way better self healing, and that's without sacrificing much (or any) dps to do so.

Pretty much all the corner stones of affliction gameplay of yesteryear are gone. It's no longer about rotting with dots, or sustaining with self heals, it's a combo spec all about about setting up burst windows for malefic rapture/dark glare/drain soul/death bolt.

Drain Life virtually heals for JACK SHIT. A full channel at best returns maybe close to 20% HP at best, and in that time that takes to cast you easily take 3x the amount of damage of what you're healing, and to top it off the spell does no damage either.

Drain Life is bar none a casualty of Legion revenge balancing, where they dumpstered drain life and soul leech as punishment for affliction's tankiness in Legion.

God forbid an immobile turret class be highly durable in exchange. Nope, can't have us outshining mages in the survival department. Arcane looking at 2x shimmer, Ice block, Alter time, Invis 60% DR on top of barrier spells.

We have an anemic soul leech and a 40% DR on a whopping 3 min cd on top of a weakass healthstone everyone also has access to. At the very least they should baseline the 45% HP restore for the warlock we had in Legion given its also humongous CD.

Meanwhile rogue gets a 30% HP restore every 30 seconds, instant cast, with healing in stealth, cloak of shadows, evasion, vanish, blind and smoke bomb to boot.