Shadowlands Beta - Additional Class Changes

[Alcsaar]

Can we not just buff LotV to the point that it becomes mandatory?

How does Blizzard expect to balance a talent that completely changes the spec playstyle like LotV will? I have a strong suspicion it'll either be bad, or so strong that you are forced to play with it anyway.

Trying to retain that playstyle is a mistake. It's going to be nigh impossible to keep it competitive without it just being inevitably better - and you're basically taking the shadow spec and making two versions of it that each have to be balanced because of how drastic of a change that one talent makes to the specs playstlye.

[Kaedis]

Depends entirely if it's part of the "cooldown reset upon boss despawn" list or not. There isn't really a pattern here.

Ankh doesn't. I seriously doubt if Ritual of Doom will, for the same reason (ie. to discourage using it on every pull).

[Doffen]

On to PTR to try the changes!

[baseballfan]

um idk about the berserk changes.. you desperately want that energy regen baseline.. put that in baseline and it will feel like a good cd. This iteration actually feels worse somehow imo.

[valax]

Meanwhile Ret Pallies continue to be ignored with their 3 rows of non-DPS skills and no choice in other 4 rows. Thank you Blizz.

Yep, I really had hopes of rerolling to ret pally this expansion. They are making it impossible to even consider , on the other hand they are making DK more and more appealing...even though I preferred unholy frenzy as it was

[apelsinjuice]

Meanwhile Ret Pallies continue to be ignored with their 3 rows of non-DPS skills and no choice in other 4 rows. Thank you Blizz.

blizz dont give a fk about paladins, shamans or monks

[Unholyground]

Lmfao! Yeah man, that row is actually fine the way it's been to be honest, all 3 are actually decent and not complete dog shit. My biggest issue is literally all of the above (or below however you wish to view it) tiers of that row. Hardly anything has been changed. Death Pact is a trap CD (although cool to have back again), the new Relish in blood is competing with Ossuary (which for some reason still isn't baseline or at least is slightly nerfed and then made baseline). Few more things but it's still very very lackluster to me.

I'm still confused as to why they don't make Deathstrike Generate runic power again while costing a rune or at the max 2 (so you can't spam it so many times) and have it where our spender (now that it's back technically) Death coil (or even bring rune strike back but as a spender) that grant's a passive bonus for a minor shield or passive hp increase like it did in WoD or just some other interactive design. It's probably just me but the whole spamming marrowrend and heartstrike to generate runic power playstyle boring as hell the past 4 years.

Oh ya, it is boring as all sin but balanced pretty well. I hope they spice it up eventually.

[Donimic]

FFS, why can't they just give us doomguard again instead of making us summon him again, its just another chore before fighting a boss, everytime you wipe, you have to resummon him as well as your main pet, that is tedious, and makes your raid hate you.

In addition toe summoning the doomguard, we also have to summon our main pet, soulstone someone, create healthstones, eat buff food, and summon people.

That's a lot to do before a raid fight.

if your raid is summoning everyone and waiting 60 minutes for locks to have their doomguard cool-down for each pull you may want to look into another guild

Depends entirely if it's part of the "cooldown reset upon boss despawn" list or not. There isn't really a pattern here.

only <5min CDs reset, the existing 8, 10, and 30min cooldowns do not reset

[Vlaid]

um idk about the berserk changes.. you desperately want that energy regen baseline.. put that in baseline and it will feel like a good cd. This iteration actually feels worse somehow imo.

Actually the big energy boost made berserk suck when used with high haste, such as with Bloodlust, so that it didn't even do anything for you under ideal conditions. The berserk changes seem the right direction.

[Cosmic Janitor]

only <5min CDs reset, the existing 8, 10, and 30min cooldowns do not reset

BL and AotD reset as well, don't they? Wasn't it the other way around, <2 minute spells don't reset?

[Aerisot]

if your raid is summoning everyone and waiting 60 minutes for locks to have their doomguard cool-down for each pull you may want to look into another guild

Honestly, wasn't paying attention that it was an hour cooldown, that kind of makes it worse imo lol.

I disagree on the summoning portion, people are always swapping out and bringing a character that is better suited for the fight.

[Beefkow]

Soul reaper execute as a talent is a bad move.

Everybody is going to pick soul reaper, i can guarantee that.

[Alcsaar]

I'm afraid that legacy of the void will be strong to the point that I will be (semi)forced to run it. I would be fine with the need to run it depending on gearing choices, but this whole "We want the Legacy of the Void talent to be available for Priests who are fond of the current live Void Form gameplay, and also a viable choice depending on the situation. " stinks. Blizz was fine with many talents not being viable across the years, the new Legacy of the Void should be garbage!

They need to remove it. There is no way they can balance LotV to be competitive with out also being superior in situations. I don't want to have to play it again on any fight ever.

They couldn't make it feel good for the past 2 expansions as the shadow priest PRIMARY play style - why on earth would they think they can suddenly make it good while also maintaining an entirely separate shadow priest playstyle?

[Krimzin]

Just want Feral to be viable.

[Kaeth]

dude are you actually joking right now?

Legion guardian was so strong that they removed an entire AM ability from them (in the middle of the expansion!) and it was STILL, by far, the best tank

if u didnt play then, well too bad, looks like DK is back on the menu

No, I wasn't joking. Legion was the one time in WoW history Guardian was great, and it was only "the best tank" for one patch. (It was still great for the whole expansion, but its dominance was exaggerated.)

Guardians were utterly destroyed after Legion. And they're getting nothing but a dmg/threat cooldown (and a few nerfs) in Shadowlands. DKs have been better on average than bears for the majority of the time DKs have existed, so I'm not surprised they're "back on the menu."

[mimi22]

Hehehe Cool everyone and Play my favorite game Brawl Stars Mod APK and enjoy your life.

[blahdiblah]

Bears are a far cry from Legion days. What you have to keep in mind is that bears on par with blood DK's with Mark of Ursol when it came to M+, as their representation was fairly similar when bear was its strongest. Once the ability was removed, bears pretty much disappeared from leaderboards because w/o that ability bears had very little in terms of dealing with unavoidable spike damage mechanics that were magic in nature. Towards the end of the expansion, other tanks were on the level of bears in raids anyways.

What made Mark of Ursol powerful wasn't because of what the ability did necessarily, it was because it had no CD and could have 100% uptime. Here's the problem with removing the ability: bears were designed around having this ability, and they only held on because Frenzied Regen scaled with damage taken. Fast forward to today, Mark of Ursol is still gone, Frenzied Regen is fixed percentage of health and no longer scales with damage taken, their damage CD was removed because of the Legion artifact yet didn't come back in BfA, only one Legion artifact trait got made baseline because bears couldn't keep up active mitigation w/o it, alongside a bunch of other nerfs or changing of abilities to be weaker.

Bears just have an identity crisis right now, and Blizz doesn't seem to know what to do with them. Bears used to be the meatshield tank that could survive any burst damage better than the other tanks, they used to be an avoidance tank or the highest HP tank, they used to be a strong self-heal tank, they used to be the best physical mitigation tank... now we're none of those. Most of the changes to bear were made to elevate other tanks for their spec/class identity, leaving bears as a stripped-down version of what they were.

SL is bringing some of the old abilities back, but it'll put them nowhere near what they once were. Add on top many of the other tanks are getting insanely nice buffs and QoL changes, and it's pretty easy to see why bears are kind of just wondering what the heck is going on with their spec. So I'll loop around to the start to ask the question: what is the identity of a bear tank? What makes a bear tank so special compared to the rest of the tanks? I could answers those questions about the other tank classes, but I can't really give a good answer for bear tanks right now.

thats a more fair take on the bear situation.. but when someone claimed bears were never good i just had to say something