Jailer sucks

[Mehrunes]

Yo, references like that are forbidden.

I didn't get that reference. So I googled the title. Then I saw David Cage and that alone made me sort of understand it.

[SirBeef]

Need I remind you they were gonna have Grom be the final boss for WoD? Then out of nowhere they pulled out archimonde. And still to this day nobody knows if he's actually dead or not. Not even Blizz knows, or cares to know.

Then Argus happened. Again, no build up to it. People expected sargeras, and people got sargeras 2 instead. The lore surrounding Argus sucked, as you saw almost none of the demons who had a strong affect on Azeroth around the bloody place. Instead the raid was filled with randoms with no lore at all.

The jailer is not going to be the villain. Blizz is entirely inspired by Disney's work and more so inspired by "subverting expectations", a horrible technique they just learned from one of the new star wars movies. Clearly, as they've done nothing but build one thing up towards one direction, then suddenly pull a 180 to do something else.

Their writers are shit, and they are constantly relying on the ol' bait and switch technique to tell their stories. It got old the moment they started doing it for ALL their plotlines.

Um, Grom was never going to be the final boss despite them saying that. Grom was a false flag. Legion and WoD were being developed at the same time. We were dealing with the Legion from day one on AU Draenor. If any believed Grom wasn't going to see through the Legion and turn they weren't paying attention.

Argus was being alluded to as well. We knew we were going to deal with the Legion for good. People foolishly assumed we were going to go toe to toe with Sargeras.

[Kralljin]

You have to make up a new villain after you rushed through Argus, Nazjatar and Ny'alotha over two years.

To be fair, i'm buying the Argus thing, not saying how they handled was good, but creating an entire expansion about the Legion homeplanet would have been fundamentally difficult because having multiple zones based on <got screwed by fel magic> isn't that amazing.

But Nazjatar and especially N'zoth / Black Empire are an absolute disgrace.
We had a fucking expansion on his Minion, Deathwing, yet the big dude himself gets axed in a single patch without doing anything, his death doesn't even lead into SL as Sargeras' final act led into BfA.

[Talrath]

According to Blizzard Q&A: "The Jailer is the main antagonist, central driving force, and the final boss of World of Warcraft: Shadowlands" https://wow.gamepedia.com/The_Jailer

think have to take with a grain of salt since they said that bfa was about faction war while it was actually about old gos or fake old god.

[Mehrunes]

To be fair, i'm buying the Argus thing, not saying how they handled was good, but creating an entire expansion about the Legion homeplanet would have been fundamentally difficult because having multiple zones based on <got screwed by fel magic> isn't that amazing.

We could always have hijacked a part of their portal network, where we'd be waging more of a guerilla warfare (at least at the start) and playing cat and mouse with Legion's forces chasing us. It would have also driven the point that Legion is waging a war against the entire cosmos at once home. The hub could have been a proper Army of the Light base. Obviously the nonsense where Army of the Light has been reduced to a bunch of slightly different Draenei hiding on Argus would be tossed out.

Spreading the thing across various worlds would have also allowed Argus itself to be properly under the Legion's control. As such, the Legion wouldn't look like a bunch of incompetent morons that can't even keep their very home world in check.

But Nazjatar and especially N'zoth / Black Empire are an absolute disgrace.
We had a fucking expansion on his Minion, Deathwing, yet the big dude himself gets axed in a single patch without doing anything, his death doesn't even lead into SL as Sargeras' final act led into BfA.

It's not like Deathwing was done particularly well either. Aside from popping up in a mere handful of quests in 4.0 and randomly torching some old zones all he really had was an utterly shite last tier as well. Where instead of being the plotting mastermind he used to be he got turned into a drooling retard.

[Rhlor]

kelthuzad>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>jailer

[Niwes]

maybe the Jailor, Jailer, Jay-Z (or whatever) is the Ghuun of SL.

[Oneirophobia]

It's still 50/50 on whether Betauser's waifu will either shank him and take his power or go full 'draenor is free'. Either way you're probably right to think he's not going to be driving the expansion.

The impression I got from Shadows Rising was that she's going to tip things in the Maw's favour enough that the Maw doesn't need her anymore, and she'll be quickly disposed of. Spoilers - Bwonsamdi warns Nathanos that Sylvanas has made some nasty friends in the afterlife and her power is merely borrowed, he explicitly says her powers can be simply taken away. She'll never defeat the Jailer and take his place. But, perhaps she's relying on us to do that for her. If she forces us to destroy hell for her because she's turned it into such a threat, it won't matter if we kill her along the way cause she'll get what she's always wanted - no hell for her to go to.

[cparle87]

So was Grom. And then he wasn't.

Grom was never the final boss. They said when they announced the xpac that the final boss would not be "a mere orc."

[OokOok]

Tell me again when we had a Lords of War talking about Archimonde, a Harbinger talking about Argus/Sargeras or a Warbringer being 100% centered around N'zoth (Azshara revolves around, but it's still an Azshara animated thing, we don't know the content of the Afterlives serie).

Same goes for the intro cinematic. Garrosh, Argus, Archimonde and N'zoth were not even mentioned in the opening cinematics. Didn't happen since Cataclysm in fact.

And he's called Zovaal.

First off, it's "warlords" they weren't the Lord of war of the Warsong lol. Anyways, using WOD as an argument is just stupid, it's pretty obvious they changed their mind halfway through and the entire expansion as a whole was just poorly written out of an ass.
BFA was obviously about N'zoth because half of the side missions like the dagger were literally about N'zoth, he's in the Queen Azshara raid, infact the very first final boss of the expansion mentions N'zoth so you're wrong there too.
Legion was called Legion, so why would a Harbringer talk about Sargeras? you have the....god I want to insult you so bad, they toss out infractions for hurting everyone's snowflake feelings on here.
Whatever, you're a fucking idiot Ophenia.

[Stardrift]

Um, Grom was never going to be the final boss despite them saying that. Grom was a false flag. Legion and WoD were being developed at the same time. We were dealing with the Legion from day one on AU Draenor. If any believed Grom wasn't going to see through the Legion and turn they weren't paying attention.

Argus was being alluded to as well. We knew we were going to deal with the Legion for good. People foolishly assumed we were going to go toe to toe with Sargeras.

I don't think Grom was a false flag. WoD was cut at least two whole patches short seeing as how it only had 1 patch (6.1 does not count as it was hardly a patch at all). Tanaan Jungle was meant to be endgame content for launch. There was a whole other island and a shattrath raid that they cut as well.

Since 6.2, they've had their tail between their legs refusing to give any info on the lore between what happened there. It was very clearly them wanting to cut ties with WoD ASAP.

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think have to take with a grain of salt since they said that bfa was about faction war while it was actually about old gos or fake old god.

It really should've been 100% about the faction war, with a couple little tiny hints once or twice about old gods puppeteering the war. It would've been so much better for the war to be put to a total end and the next expansion being the journey to nazjatar and Nyalotha.

[TheFirstOnes]

"Anyways, using WOD as an argument is just stupid" No it isn't...

"First off, it's "warlords" they weren't the Lord of war of the Warsong lol." Lords of War featured an episode based off Maraad, bro. LMAO

"it's pretty obvious they changed their mind halfway through and the entire expansion as a whole was just poorly written out of an ass." Even tho a WoD toy literally confirmed to us that Archimonde was going to be a factor this expac? Not to mention other shit as well?

"BFA was obviously about N'zoth because half of the side missions like the dagger were literally about N'zoth, he's in the Queen Azshara raid, infact the very first final boss of the expansion mentions N'zoth so you're wrong there too." You can argue this with literally everything else (INCLUDING THE JAILER). Doesn't mean any of these guys still had an episode dedicated to them. Hell, not even the Lich King had an animated series or so dedicated to him.

"Legion was called Legion, so why would a Harbringer talk about Sargeras?" 1. It could express his background more. And 2. With your logic, why would something based on the 4 main covenants we're going to party with talk about the Jailer? You're using your own argument against yourself, dude...

"you have the....god I want to insult you so bad, they toss out infractions for hurting everyone's snowflake feelings on here." Or you could just be respectful. If you're that upset, take a breather. It's just a fan-site, bro.

"Whatever, you're a--" okay buddy...

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"I don't think Grom was a false flag." After fighting the most powerful Warlord (Blackhand), and after fighting an Old God empowered Garrosh during MoP...

Grom would have literally been the most underwhelming boss fight in WoW lore.

[Your Mommy]

"I don't think Grom was a false flag." After fighting the most powerful Warlord (Blackhand), and after fighting an Old God empowered Garrosh during MoP...

Grom would have literally been the most underwhelming boss fight in WoW lore.

Not disagreeing with your previous points in your post but, why do you think Blackhand is more powerful than Grom?

[Ophenia]

First off, it's "warlords" they weren't the Lord of war of the Warsong lol.

"lol"



And you're missing the entire point. Of course there were references to N'Zoth in BfA but there was no mention in the OPENING CINEMATIC as I said. I was just contradicting points to the OP, and you counter-argumented me with total nonsense, dunno who's the idiot here tbh.

[matrix123mko]

That's basically it. A lot of people were eagerly anticipating an entire xpac built around Nyalotha. Then they rush thru Ny in 1 patch to offer a Jailer that no-one cares about. As I said, this is GoT season 8 writing. The classic example of writers not getting reined in is seeing them destroy things the fans love for personal pet projects no one cares about. This happens a lot and is happening here.

I think they wanted a N'zoth expansion but at some point they had a thought that manipulating old god shouldn't be so dumb to reveal himself too early, so they invented the faction war. Then, the execution was horrible and expansion happened as it happened.

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To be fair, i'm buying the Argus thing, not saying how they handled was good, but creating an entire expansion about the Legion homeplanet would have been fundamentally difficult because having multiple zones based on <got screwed by fel magic> isn't that amazing.

They could have always written it so eredar took care to prevent fel pollution in their homeland. We could see a race so good at fel that it could use it without risk.

But Nazjatar and especially N'zoth / Black Empire are an absolute disgrace.
We had a fucking expansion on his Minion, Deathwing, yet the big dude himself gets axed in a single patch without doing anything, his death doesn't even lead into SL as Sargeras' final act led into BfA.

And Azshara had to share her patch with a gnome.

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maybe the Jailor, Jailer, Jay-Z (or whatever) is the Ghuun of SL.

That's Denathrius.

[Ielenia]

According to Blizzard Q&A: "The Jailer is the main antagonist, central driving force, and the final boss of World of Warcraft: Shadowlands" https://wow.gamepedia.com/The_Jailer

Didn't Blizzard also say that Grommash Hellscream was the "main antagonist"/"big baddie"/"last boss" of World of Warcraft: Warlords of Draenor? Skip to 11:00

[Dellis0991]

The arbiter could easily end up the final villain

That would be a interesting twist.

[Kallisto]

So was Grom. And then he wasn't.

Go rewatch the wod announcement Q&A. Blizzard back then said the final boss of WoD wasn't going to be an orc.

[Kralljin]

I think they wanted a N'zoth expansion but at some point they had a thought that manipulating old god shouldn't be so dumb to reveal himself too early, so they invented the faction war. Then, the execution was horrible and expansion happened as it happened.

It's possible, but then N'zoth should've been the Mastermind behind the war, not Sylvanas / Jailer.
The hooks that tie N'zoth to the overall story to BfA are just way to small, not even G'huun in 8.0 seemingly had any real connection to N'zoth besides that one Aqir boss in Uldir which got captured.

They could have always written it so eredar took care to prevent fel pollution in their homeland. We could see a race so good at fel that it could use it without risk.

I don't know, the big issue for me with that is that most really Fel corrupted races seemingly do not mind the corruption of their land and having zones that juxtapose the zones wrecked by fel would just detract from the feeling that the planet is 100% Legion controlled.

It's not like Deathwing was done particularly well either. Aside from popping up in a mere handful of quests in 4.0 and randomly torching some old zones all he really had was an utterly shite last tier as well. Where instead of being the plotting mastermind he used to be he got turned into a drooling retard.

Not my point that Deathwing was done well, but i expected more from a character who had Deathwing under his control.

At least Deathwing has done something "bad" during his time, whereas N'zoth & resurface of the Black Empire just happened and was dealt with without any consequences.
Heck, to defeat Deathwing, we basically had to cheat and bring back the Dragon Soul, whereas N'zoth realizes midfight that he's losing, then creates a portal so we can more easily put the gun against his sleeve.

Deathwing was completely mishandled, but N'zoth is my opinion is on another level.

[Soon-TM]

It will feel like a, "Oh, you are the bad guy? Okay, well now that I killed you, what's next?" kind of situation.

Essentially Tentacle Boi 2.0, if BfA is any hint.