When you look back at things with Garrosh...

[TrueHorde]

"When you look back at things with Garrosh,
the result of that didn’t really clean up some stuff.
But it didn’t really fundamentally made Horde look at themselves and question themselves.
So with Battle for Azeroth, let’s look at those things."

——Steve Danuser 2019/01/11

https://blizzardwatch.com/2019/01/11...initely-thing/

What do you think of it now？

[Overlordd]

That Steve overstayed his welcome

[Dazmalak]

Oh, I see. As a Horde player I should hate myself and my faction for wanting conflict in a game called Warcraft. Thank you, Steve, for showing me the error of my ways. I will quietly join the rest of the Power Rangers and Zord-...I mean Magni in defending Azeroth from whatever diabolical evil rears its hideous head next.

[Sanguinerd]

I think Blizzard needs to either cut the shit with the whole "Orc vs Human" thing, let that shit go already and have the factions unite for PvE purposes, OR give us a proper reason to fight eachother without some story that makes the factions help eachother out in the end YET AGAIN.

We were at war, I've killed tons of Alliance soldiers so why would I suddenly stop? My actions are forgiven now? I'm supposed to forget we were at war? It's bad enough I'm talking orders from a diamond Dwarf.

And when I play Alliance I don't want to save Baine either. I don't want to see a cutscene with Saurfang and Anduin or Thrall and Jaina talking about peace. I couldn't give a shit.

[Super Dickmann]

@Dazmalak said everything that needs to be said. Neither Mists should have been done, neither the orcs or Forsaken should've had their casts neutered and decimated and their best leaders ditched for fitting the purpose of the game, but at least the first one was done with some minimum of internally coherent storytelling. Also, the first one didn't ditch the longest lasting Horde position to replace it with a literal red alliance.

[VinceVega]

Either stop the war alltogether... make it some kind of UN. DIfferent factions can still have conflicts Undead and Nightelves etc.

But people as a whole are not at war anymore.

OR: Just war forever. Which is simply not believable. Because at some point either they run out of ressources or one would win and exterminate enslave the other. It is just not believable anymore

[Newname1234567890]

"When you look back at things with Garrosh,
the result of that didn’t really clean up some stuff.
But it didn’t really fundamentally made Horde look at themselves and question themselves.
So with Battle for Azeroth, let’s look at those things."

——Steve Danuser 2019/01/11

https://blizzardwatch.com/2019/01/11...initely-thing/

What do you think of it now？

What will forever bother with that quote is that blizzard are the ones who wrote the story. If you wanted to Horde to change you probably should have done that

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Wow I want to play that BfA Danuser is talking about here, because for sure it's not what we got.

There was nothing ostensibly more introspective for the Horde during BfA than there was during MoP, so it really comes across they did not meet that goal.

Not because Saurfang had a personal arc about Honor does it mean the Horde itself grappled with it's morality any differently than it did on MoP, the same story of the Horde as a whole following a warmongering Warchief at the edge of the precipice and just then changing their mind.

If at least some Horde leaders had seen the writing on the wall at the end of Teldrassil, with the idea of questioning Sylvanas motives and actions as we do her bidding, then we would have looked at those things. But even despite Teldrassil, the first cycle of BfA still tried to present both factions in an "equal" manner. Narrative wise, If you are going to start the expansion with one side committing a war crime, and now you are going to end it with their leader being ousted because it evil, drop the pretense of balance and actually tell the story of the Horde grappling with its ethics.

Cause instead we really just had MoP 2.

[Varodoc]

I mean he's right. After Garrosh and his evil plans were finally stopped, the Horde immediately assumed they needed another Warchief. It wasn't until BfA that they realized "hey, maybe giving ALL military and political power to one person is not the brightest idea". If they realized this back in MoP, the whole world war started by Sylvanas would've been avoided.

But oh well, savages can only think so much.

[Super Dickmann]

What will forever bother with that quote is that blizzard are the ones who wrote the story. If you wanted to Horde to change you probably should have done that

That's the funniest part honestly, and it also shows that it is just disingenuous. Blizzard could have written their pre-neutered Horde that they're doing in this expansion, but the truth is that Afrasiabi and the new crop just wanted to do Mists again to show they could do it better and they failed spectacularly. Any institutional criticism of the Warchief is laughable when you consider that the model it's opposed to is divine right absolute monarchy, yet one is supposed to be structurally rotten and the cause of all that is wrong and the latter only leads to the most enlightened and peaceful rulers.