My thoughts on the other side of Azeroth

[Snowfunk]

Wow, people must be really bored...

[Ringthane]

They straight up say ships go missing and never return. I love me a good nautical mystery.

Maybe THAT'S how I'll finally get a player ship in this game. I've only been asking for nearly 16 years lmao

Where do they say that? I've been playing since before AQ and I've never heard that. But if it is true, it just adds to the likelihood that something is there.

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Sure, I mean, it's not like you're not pretending you can see the future and know with utmost certainty there is something worth exploring on "the other side of Azeroth" while it could be nothing, but it must be something! There's not quite as much seawater there to occupy half a globe as you've convinced yourself . The only difference between our sides are, I'm looking at the map and interpreting what I see. Your side is boiled down to "seawater, empty space, got to be something there because I have not been told otherwise with 100% concrete proof! One mega continent broken down!? Naw, nah, NAH!!! There's more!!!" If you were a prospector, I'd make a killing selling you a dead mine and watch you succumb to gold rush frothing at the mouth.

You're interpreting the map you see? The one that's changed several times over the past 16 years? The one that's added islands, and continents, and suddenly moved a whole continent a few hundred/thousand or so miles east? The one that looks different now to the one we saw in Vanilla? Your argument is that because what you see is what you see, then what you see is what is?

OK, then.

So if they do end up adding something else to the map, you'll still say "Well, it's what I see, so that's what it is"? If they decide in the next expansion after Shadowlands that Pandaria just sank overnight, and it's no longer there, you'll just shrug and say "Well, I see a map without it, so it can't possibly ever have been there"? Because that's the argument you're making. If they suddenly decide that Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms should swap places, you'll deny that they were ever where they are now, because "What I see is what's real"?

And don't come back with "that's ridiculous and could never happen". This is a fictional game world. If the creators of that world (not the in-game creators, the actual creators of the game) decide that it happens, then it will happen. What will you say then?

[SniperCT]

Where do they say that? I've been playing since before AQ and I've never heard that. But if it is true, it just adds to the likelihood that something is there.

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You're interpreting the map you see? The one that's changed several times over the past 16 years? The one that's added islands, and continents, and suddenly moved a whole continent a few hundred/thousand or so miles east? The one that looks different now to the one we saw in Vanilla? Your argument is that because what you see is what you see, then what you see is what is?

OK, then.

So if they do end up adding something else to the map, you'll still say "Well, it's what I see, so that's what it is"? If they decide in the next expansion after Shadowlands that Pandaria just sank overnight, and it's no longer there, you'll just shrug and say "Well, I see a map without it, so it can't possibly ever have been there"? Because that's the argument you're making. If they suddenly decide that Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms should swap places, you'll deny that they were ever where they are now, because "What I see is what's real"?

And don't come back with "that's ridiculous and could never happen". This is a fictional game world. If the creators of that world (not the in-game creators, the actual creators of the game) decide that it happens, then it will happen. What will you say then?

Chronicles states that ancient kalimdor was the largest of the continents, meaning there were other continents before the sundering.

Additionally there's this, though I can't find the page number atm:

"The world of Azeroth may have lands located at the other side, beyond the Veiled Sea to the west of Kalimdor, and beyond the Forbidding Sea to the east of the Eastern Kingdoms. No one is sure or has knowledge of what (if anything) lie on the other side of Azeroth. A handful of ships have ventured from Kalimdor away from the Maelstrom — to the north, west, and south. None have yet returned."

Obviously they're keeping their options open.

[Kyphael]

You're interpreting the map you see? The one that's changed several times over the past 16 years? The one that's added islands, and continents, and suddenly moved a whole continent a few hundred/thousand or so miles east? The one that looks different now to the one we saw in Vanilla? Your argument is that because what you see is what you see, then what you see is what is?

OK, then.

So if they do end up adding something else to the map, you'll still say "Well, it's what I see, so that's what it is"? If they decide in the next expansion after Shadowlands that Pandaria just sank overnight, and it's no longer there, you'll just shrug and say "Well, I see a map without it, so it can't possibly ever have been there"? Because that's the argument you're making. If they suddenly decide that Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms should swap places, you'll deny that they were ever where they are now, because "What I see is what's real"?

And don't come back with "that's ridiculous and could never happen". This is a fictional game world. If the creators of that world (not the in-game creators, the actual creators of the game) decide that it happens, then it will happen. What will you say then?

Well for starters, I pretty much doubt Blizzard would just swap Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms' places on the globe for shits and giggles at the detriment of their... well, creative sanity. I don't see how that supports your argument in any way. If Pandaria sinks to the bottom of the sea like Nazjatar did, why would I deny it ever existed when there is concrete proof it did? Again, you're taking my stance way too literally for the sake of throwing something up on the thread and see if it sticks. What I said was, I interpret the map of Azeroth as is presently including every continent, isle, and landmass introduced and developed in-story, and in-lore, barring perhaps Dragon Isles, there are no secret, missing, significant, mysterious, mist-wreathed continent(s) on what may or may not be a significantly-sized chunk of the vacant sea.

Fact: Azeroth once had a singular mega continent. The Sundering splintered said continent into the chronicled landmasses we know today as EK, Kalimdor, Northrend, and Pandaria, with smaller landmasses and isles such as Kul'tiras, Zandalar, and Broken Isles to name a few splintering off those larger chunks.

What this discussion theorized is there is a whole unexplored half of Azeroth yet uncharted because jabronie sailors have gone missing in "zee forbeedin ocean." To that I and others called bullshit. Every notable landmass on Azeroth spoken of in lore and story, held gospel by word of mouth and pen to paper by the "creators" (the writers not The Titans) is more or less accounted for barring, again, Dragon Isles. Have continents changed shape over 16 years? Yes. Has the map been updated? Undoubtedly to fit Blizzard's ever evolving, and expanding world to fit both gameplay and story needs.

Does any of this in any way purport that there is a whole uncharted "other side of Azeroth?" No, it does not. The forbidden sea theorized here does not make up half the globe's worth of empty or mysterious landmasses waiting to be discovered. It's a part of the Azeroth with perhaps some small isles or landmasses here and there, but certainly not a whole side of the globe's worth of land ripe for the conquering, because, well, The Titans would know barring some major retcon. If Blizzard's approach to introducing new landmasses since Pandaria is precedent, they will simply amplify actual geographical size of locales to make them sizable questing zones and fit them onto the map we see.

If anything so grandiose hiding in plain sight is ever introduced that justifies this other side of Azeroth in scope, I'll eat crow, but until then, most major locations in WoW conceived and/or mentioned in Warcraft III and since has been mapped out. Their world is nearing completion and I don't see them personally bastardizing 16 years' worth of lore to re-shape the history of everything they've written for more "quest zones." Not when their philosophy centers around the focus point always returning to Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms when there are worlds like K'resh, and The Void yet to explore.

Anything is possible, but not everything is probable.

[Doffen]

The other side on Azeroth might as well just be a few islands or a small continent. There is definitely shown from Argus that both kalimdor and eastern kingdom isn't placed like it is on the in game map which is in turn made for QoL purposes. Some people acts like as Azeroth is as it is shown in the in game map and there is this thing on the other side of it. That they travel the way on the map is of course for it to be something that is shown on the map as you are actually travelling. That they might add more stuff and put it there is likely, but I doubt we get a two page Azeroth. It will just be shoveled in there with the rest so it's easy to navigate. The in game map does not, and will not reflect the real Azeroth.

So, Azeroth is not flat, and even if they said there is something else there, doesn't mean there will be big continents like EK and Kalimdor. It's not a flat earth. It's not like we will see a massive tentacle on the "other side" or that Azeroth the Titan herself has half her body out there. I find it odd that they have not made that into an expansion yet if there is indeed massive continents on "the other side". Most likely because there is not. Why wouldn't they explore the bigger parts of the world first instead of focusing on small islands, and not only two, but three other worldly worlds. Why wouldn't they have made an expansion about that instead of making an alternate timeline world we already had seen before. Why wouldn't they bring the faction war to the other side, why didn't Thrall and his Horde go there instead of Kalimdor. Why didn't they include it in Warcraft III.

There might be some stuff on "the other side", but it's not very likely to be much which is why we have not seen it as of now.

[SniperCT]

The other side on Azeroth might as well just be a few islands or a small continent. There is definitely shown from Argus that both kalimdor and eastern kingdom isn't placed like it is on the in game map which is in turn made for QoL purposes. Some people acts like as Azeroth is as it is shown in the in game map and there is this thing on the other side of it. That they travel the way on the map is of course for it to be something that is shown on the map as you are actually travelling. That they might add more stuff and put it there is likely, but I doubt we get a two page Azeroth. It will just be shoveled in there with the rest so it's easy to navigate. The in game map does not, and will not reflect the real Azeroth.

So, Azeroth is not flat, and even if they said there is something else there, doesn't mean there will be big continents like EK and Kalimdor. It's not a flat earth. It's not like we will see a massive tentacle on the "other side" or that Azeroth the Titan herself has half her body out there. I find it odd that they have not made that into an expansion yet if there is indeed massive continents on "the other side". Most likely because there is not. Why wouldn't they explore the bigger parts of the world first instead of focusing on small islands, or two, not three other worldly worlds. Why wouldn't they bring the faction war to the other side, why didn't Thrall and his Horde go there instead of Kalimdor. Why didn't they include it in Warcraft III. Why wouldn't they made an expansion about that instead of making an alternate timeline world we already had seen before.

There might be some stuff on "the other side", but it's not very likely to be much.

Other side basically means hemisphere. Not that the world is flat.

When you're in the americas and you talk about the other wide of the world you typically mean eurasia and africa. When you look at the moon you talk about the facing side and the dark side. The half you see and the half you don't. Doesn't mean the moon or earth is flat.

That's all that's meant when someone says 'other side' of the world.

[Doffen]

Other side basically means hemisphere. Not that the world is flat.

When you're in the americas and you talk about the other wide of the world you typically mean eurasia and africa. When you look at the moon you talk about the facing side and the dark side. The half you see and the half you don't. Doesn't mean the moon or earth is flat.

That's all that's meant when someone says 'other side' of the world.

Well I know that, but there is someone who does not know that. Don't shoot the messenger.

The other side is obviously parts of the world that is not explored. Which would be the southern side of Azeroth as we can see the upper half from Argus.

[qwerty123456]

It could be some fantastical new landmass, or it could also just be a red herring. The moment we explore said mystery, there'll be nothing left to the imagination. It could be wiggle room. It could be anything. Or it could be nothing. I'm not disputing I could be wrong, but "other side of Azeroth" is being blown out of proportion to be something way more than I think is intended. The player base does that a lot with things when Blizzard doesn't shove in their with 100% undisputed truth, "there's nothing there but water and maybe a Bermuda's triangle! It's just more seawater!" Unless told something factually, "there's got to be something there!" I get it. It's human nature to want to explore the unexplored, but in a map dictated by story need rather than say science, and with the information we have at hand regarding what the four major continents and their lesser landmasses represent on Azeroth, I'd rather not let my imagination run wild to the extent I'd subscribe to a flat-earther like mentality in Blizzard's approach to portraying Azeroth the last 20+ years.

Some mysteries are better left that, just a mystery. The deepest depths of the ocean and the furthest reaches of the universe are so intriguing because they're the unknown. The search never ends, but we won't always uncover every mystery there is. I know I'm getting philosophical with this, but "the forbidden sea" will no longer be "forbidden" if/when Azeroth's mortal races crash onto the shores of Pandaria 2.0, bastardize the land and whore out its mysteries for trinkets and political/racial agendas like we did Pandaria.

You keep mentioning this flat earther stuff when there is absolutely no evidence what so ever for a flat earth. Meanwhile Chronicles 1 stated there were more landmasses than Ancient Kalimdor which is where the entirety of all known lands that exist today comes from. Chronicles 3 is the only source that states there was only one piece of land and its the only of the chronicle books that not only has lore inconsistencies but also legit mistakes.

Also there's no reason that all of Azerothians would take journey's twice to three times as long plus esp when the route goes near a fucking deadly hole in the the planet if there was nothing in the Veiled and Forbidden Seas. Sure maybe it could just be a bunch of naga and murlocs but to try and handwave the idea and claim nothing is there is absolutely ridiculous when literally no evidence what so ever shows that to be the case.

[Ielenia]

Sure, I mean, it's not like you're not pretending you can see the future and know with utmost certainty there is something worth exploring on "the other side of Azeroth" while it could be nothing, but it must be something!

*sigh* Once again, from the top: no. That is not what I'm doing, here. I'm starting to think you're arguing here in bad faith because every time you attempted to represent my opinions and arguments, you failed so miserably, I can only assume it's intentional.

There's not quite as much seawater there to occupy half a globe as you've convinced yourself.

How do you know? That's head canon you're trying to push as fact.

The only difference between our sides are, I'm looking at the map and interpreting what I see.

In other words: headcanon.

Your side is boiled down to "seawater, empty space, got to be something there because I have not been told otherwise with 100% concrete proof! One mega continent broken down!? Naw, nah, NAH!!! There's more!!!"

And, once again, you completely misrepresent my arguments as I've never said anything of the sort.

[Destinas]

Well for starters, I pretty much doubt Blizzard would just swap Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms' places on the globe for shits and giggles at the detriment of their... well, creative sanity. I don't see how that supports your argument in any way. If Pandaria sinks to the bottom of the sea like Nazjatar did, why would I deny it ever existed when there is concrete proof it did? Again, you're taking my stance way too literally for the sake of throwing something up on the thread and see if it sticks. What I said was, I interpret the map of Azeroth as is presently including every continent, isle, and landmass introduced and developed in-story, and in-lore, barring perhaps Dragon Isles, there are no secret, missing, significant, mysterious, mist-wreathed continent(s) on what may or may not be a significantly-sized chunk of the vacant sea.

Fact: Azeroth once had a singular mega continent. The Sundering splintered said continent into the chronicled landmasses we know today as EK, Kalimdor, Northrend, and Pandaria, with smaller landmasses and isles such as Kul'tiras, Zandalar, and Broken Isles to name a few splintering off those larger chunks.

What this discussion theorized is there is a whole unexplored half of Azeroth yet uncharted because jabronie sailors have gone missing in "zee forbeedin ocean." To that I and others called bullshit. Every notable landmass on Azeroth spoken of in lore and story, held gospel by word of mouth and pen to paper by the "creators" (the writers not The Titans) is more or less accounted for barring, again, Dragon Isles. Have continents changed shape over 16 years? Yes. Has the map been updated? Undoubtedly to fit Blizzard's ever evolving, and expanding world to fit both gameplay and story needs.

Does any of this in any way purport that there is a whole uncharted "other side of Azeroth?" No, it does not. The forbidden sea theorized here does not make up half the globe's worth of empty or mysterious landmasses waiting to be discovered. It's a part of the Azeroth with perhaps some small isles or landmasses here and there, but certainly not a whole side of the globe's worth of land ripe for the conquering, because, well, The Titans would know barring some major retcon. If Blizzard's approach to introducing new landmasses since Pandaria is precedent, they will simply amplify actual geographical size of locales to make them sizable questing zones and fit them onto the map we see.

If anything so grandiose hiding in plain sight is ever introduced that justifies this other side of Azeroth in scope, I'll eat crow, but until then, most major locations in WoW conceived and/or mentioned in Warcraft III and since has been mapped out. Their world is nearing completion and I don't see them personally bastardizing 16 years' worth of lore to re-shape the history of everything they've written for more "quest zones." Not when their philosophy centers around the focus point always returning to Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms when there are worlds like K'resh, and The Void yet to explore.

Anything is possible, but not everything is probable.

Thing is, they can add whatever they want, amf have, for any purpose.

There doesn't need to be any logic about what's between EK and Kalimdor in the current lore, because if they really wanted to shift around everything and add a massive continent there, they absolutely could. Azeroth's geography has drastically changed over time.

If they wanted to keep it mysterious, using your "jabronie sailors" logic, they absolutely could. Obviously new lore that wasn't thought about 15+ years ago can't be introduced until they think of it and implement it somehow. Pandaria was a mostly unknown landmass in Azeroth until they added it in-game, with major NPCs and minor townsfolk alike not knowing what a Pandaren was. The other races of Zandalar were never mentioned in lore until they popped into existence in BfA, because Blizz wanted to add them.

Not everything introduced has been from Warcraft 3, and much of each continent has been vastly changed or expanded from the lore presented there as well. Draenor received and entirely new layout with more continents introduced. The shadowlands is more than gray swirlies that we've seen for 15 years. The Lost Glacier proves that there is more than we can see on the current map, as well as the Dragon Isles.

To name a few other things not present in WC3 (or expanded/completely rearranged from WC3):
Vashj'ir's three zones, Broken Shore (it was just "Suramar"), Bloodmyst/Azuremyst Isles, Twilight Highlands, every zone and island in Pandaria, Hrothgar's Landing, Vol'dun/Nazmir, Stormsong Valley/Drustvar, the other zones of the Broken Isles, Lost Isles, Wandering Isle, etc

Outside Azeroth, some things that didn't exist in WC3 were:
Argus, K'aresh, Niskara, Dreadscar Rift, Frostfire Ridge, Gorgrond, Ashran, Talador, Zangar Sea, Spires of Arak, Tanaan, the "ogre continent" of Draenor, Farah'lon/Netherstorm, Xandros, Xoroth, Xerrath, Rancora, Nihilam, etc.

And even then, the core concepts of the places and races shown in WC3 have drastically changed to suit the new lore they wanted to tell. That's why the "Draenei retcon" exists.

Azeroth isn't "near completion" until Blizz decides that it is, or until the franchise is entirely dead. If they play their cards right, they could add other expansions that cover K'aresh, the Void, the Dragon Isles, and any infinite landmasses on Azeroth that they dream up for as long as people are interested.

[Kyphael]

You keep mentioning this flat earther stuff when there is absolutely no evidence what so ever for a flat earth. Meanwhile Chronicles 1 stated there were more landmasses than Ancient Kalimdor which is where the entirety of all known lands that exist today comes from. Chronicles 3 is the only source that states there was only one piece of land and its the only of the chronicle books that not only has lore inconsistencies but also legit mistakes.

Also there's no reason that all of Azerothians would take journey's twice to three times as long plus esp when the route goes near a fucking deadly hole in the the planet if there was nothing in the Veiled and Forbidden Seas. Sure maybe it could just be a bunch of naga and murlocs but to try and handwave the idea and claim nothing is there is absolutely ridiculous when literally no evidence what so ever shows that to be the case.

We must agree to disagree. I find the idea of a "other side of Azeroth" with yet undiscovered, significant continents unaccounted by the Titans to be ridiculous. Until Blizzard says otherwise and re-writes their own history, what we see is what we have, in-game, historically, and in-lore.

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Thing is, they can add whatever they want, amf have, for any purpose.

There doesn't need to be any logic about what's between EK and Kalimdor in the current lore, because if they really wanted to shift around everything and add a massive continent there, they absolutely could. Azeroth's geography has drastically changed over time.

If they wanted to keep it mysterious, using your "jabronie sailors" logic, they absolutely could. Obviously new lore that wasn't thought about 15+ years ago can't be introduced until they think of it and implement it somehow. Pandaria was a mostly unknown landmass in Azeroth until they added it in-game, with major NPCs and minor townsfolk alike not knowing what a Pandaren was. The other races of Zandalar were never mentioned in lore until they popped into existence in BfA, because Blizz wanted to add them.

Not everything introduced has been from Warcraft 3, and much of each continent has been vastly changed or expanded from the lore presented there as well. Draenor received and entirely new layout with more continents introduced. The shadowlands is more than gray swirlies that we've seen for 15 years. The Lost Glacier proves that there is more than we can see on the current map, as well as the Dragon Isles.

To name a few other things not present in WC3 (or expanded/completely rearranged from WC3):
Vashj'ir's three zones, Broken Shore (it was just "Suramar"), Bloodmyst/Azuremyst Isles, Twilight Highlands, every zone and island in Pandaria, Hrothgar's Landing, Vol'dun/Nazmir, Stormsong Valley/Drustvar, the other zones of the Broken Isles, Lost Isles, Wandering Isle, etc

Outside Azeroth, some things that didn't exist in WC3 were:
Argus, K'aresh, Niskara, Dreadscar Rift, Frostfire Ridge, Gorgrond, Ashran, Talador, Zangar Sea, Spires of Arak, Tanaan, the "ogre continent" of Draenor, Farah'lon/Netherstorm, Xandros, Xoroth, Xerrath, Rancora, Nihilam, etc.

And even then, the core concepts of the places and races shown in WC3 have drastically changed to suit the new lore they wanted to tell. That's why the "Draenei retcon" exists.

Azeroth isn't "near completion" until Blizz decides that it is, or until the franchise is entirely dead. If they play their cards right, they could add other expansions that cover K'aresh, the Void, the Dragon Isles, and any infinite landmasses on Azeroth that they dream up for as long as people are interested.

According to the story set out to be told originally between Warcraft I-III, I'd say they've told a brunt of the stories and resolved plot points originally introduced, conceptualized, and expanded upon from RTS to MMO. Several chapters from beginning to end, several stories on EK, Kalimdor, Northrend, Pandaria, and the fledgling landmasses and islands had stories told from beginning, middle, and end. Thosee continents served that purpose, and the basic idea yet unchanged is Azeroth had one mega continent sundered into the landmasses we know as chronicled by the Titans. I'm not arguing there won't be anything new introduced, I'm arguing there won't be anything massively new on a planet that is already quite crowded, and certainly not enough vacant sea space that justifies this "other side of Azeroth" idea.

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*sigh* Once again, from the top: no. That is not what I'm doing, here. I'm starting to think you're arguing here in bad faith because every time you attempted to represent my opinions and arguments, you failed so miserably, I can only assume it's intentional.


How do you know? That's head canon you're trying to push as fact.


In other words: headcanon.


And, once again, you completely misrepresent my arguments as I've never said anything of the sort.

You keep saying that but your argument is really not as complex as you think. Broken down to its bare bones its essentially "there might be something there, you don't know! Look at ALL that ocean water, there's a whole side uncharted!" Mine is "uh, Azeroth ain't flat, that 2-dimensional map wraps around a globe. I don't see it, maybe? If there is, it won't be as big as you think."

[Destinas]

According to the story set out to be told originally between Warcraft I-III, I'd say they've told a brunt of the stories and resolved plot points originally introduced, conceptualized, and expanded upon from RTS to MMO. Several chapters from beginning to end, several stories on EK, Kalimdor, Northrend, Pandaria, and the fledgling landmasses and islands had stories told from beginning, middle, and end. Thosee continents served that purpose, and the basic idea yet unchanged is Azeroth had one mega continent sundered into the landmasses we know as chronicled by the Titans. I'm not arguing there won't be anything new introduced, I'm arguing there won't be anything massively new on a planet that is already quite crowded, and certainly not enough vacant sea space that justifies this "other side of Azeroth" idea.

No one's arguing that they're going to make an expansion with a new landmass that has no prior name and no prior lore at all. If there was anything on the other side of Azeroth, they would likely drop hints long before that.

As far as crowding Azeroth, that's a moot point. They can readjust and resize anything they want, like they already have many times. They could even make a new UI to show Azeroth as a globe to be more accurate, if it came to that.

Your philosophy so far has been "they can make anything new and rearrange anything, but they wouldn't make a new landmass." You're arguing against yourself here. You acknowledge that maps have changed drastically already, but you argue that there isn't enough room for a landmass. If they wanted to add one, they'd make room. EK gets increasingly more eastern with every expansion. The Maelstrom is no longer in the center of the Great Sea. Current geography means nothing for future lore.

No one's arguing that a landmass MUST exist on Azeroth's opposite hemisphere, people are saying that something could be there, based on snippets of information shown so far, and how Azeroth appeared on Argus. It could be a huge landmass, or something the size of Zandalar. It could be a string of islands covered in magical storms. It could be a vacuum of Void. It could be anything. Also, no one's really arguing that there is one landmass the size of Ancient Kalimdor or anything. Again, it could be anything.

Saying that it's impossible doesn't match what Blizzard has been known to do already with literally every other landmass they've added into WoW.

[Ielenia]

You keep saying that but your argument is really not as complex as you think. Broken down to its bare bones its essentially "there might be something there, you don't know! Look at ALL that ocean water, there's a whole side uncharted!"

I'm talking about the possibility of them existing. You, on the other hand, are stating as a fact that they don't exist. One of us is stating opinions as fact, and it's not me.

Mine is "uh, Azeroth ain't flat,

Which is further evidence of you not knowing what you're talking about since I am not claiming Azeroth is flat.

that 2-dimensional map wraps around a globe. I don't see it, maybe?

And speaking about the map wrapping around a globe, I've already pointed out strong evidence that this map does not wrap around the whole globe and, at best, is only the representation of the northern hemisphere of Azeroth...

If there is, it won't be as big as you think."

I never made any claims about the sizes of landmasses, but your statement delves into headcanon and the "my opinion is fact" fallacy.

[Kyphael]

No one's arguing that they're going to make an expansion with a new landmass that has no prior name and no prior lore at all. If there was anything on the other side of Azeroth, they would likely drop hints long before that.

As far as crowding Azeroth, that's a moot point. They can readjust and resize anything they want, like they already have many times. They could even make a new UI to show Azeroth as a globe to be more accurate, if it came to that.

Your philosophy so far has been "they can make anything new and rearrange anything, but they wouldn't make a new landmass." You're arguing against yourself here. You acknowledge that maps have changed drastically already, but you argue that there isn't enough room for a landmass. If they wanted to add one, they'd make room. EK gets increasingly more eastern with every expansion. The Maelstrom is no longer in the center of the Great Sea. Current geography means nothing for future lore.

No one's arguing that a landmass MUST exist on Azeroth's opposite hemisphere, people are saying that something could be there, based on snippets of information shown so far, and how Azeroth appeared on Argus. It could be a huge landmass, or something the size of Zandalar. It could be a string of islands covered in magical storms. It could be a vacuum of Void. It could be anything. Also, no one's really arguing that there is one landmass the size of Ancient Kalimdor or anything. Again, it could be anything.

Saying that it's impossible doesn't match what Blizzard has been known to do already with literally every other landmass they've added into WoW.

I suppose. My argument was always simply dismissive of the idea of "another side of Azeroth" the way it was framed to make it something more than it'll likely actually be, supported by Blizzard likely maintaining the integrity of their lore (I know... try not to laugh) as far as what Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor represent to their story and Azeroth as a whole. They will always be the focal point of the story, the two largest chunks of the one mega continent, and introducing anything of comparable size on "another side of the planet" to me is counterintuitive to the story they have told, and continue to tell, and the precedent they've set since Pandaria insofar what they do want to introduce, that being not go bigger than before, but rather more imaginative than before (AU Draenor, Argus, Nazjatar, Shadowlands) being new quest zones and world to explore without having to be on the physical land so the planet doesn't get infinitely ballooned.

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I'm talking about the possibility of them existing. You, on the other hand, are stating as a fact that they don't exist. One of us is stating opinions as fact, and it's not me.


Which is further evidence of you not knowing what you're talking about since I am not claiming Azeroth is flat.


And speaking about the map wrapping around a globe, I've already pointed out strong evidence that this map does not wrap around the whole globe and, at best, is only the representation of the northern hemisphere of Azeroth...


I never made any claims about the sizes of landmasses, but your statement delves into headcanon and the "my opinion is fact" fallacy.

I've said many times throughout the discussion, I realize in a game about expanding the world, yes, there will undoubtedly be new places discovered. My disagreement with you is that the map you see, you believe represents only the northern hemisphere of Azeroth, and I don't believe the evidence you've provided substantially proves that. It's a hint at stretching what we see a bit, to introduce a few islands here and there, yes, but to the extent you're talking? That's quite a leap to me, and until Blizzard states otherwise, they say the Titans were wrong and there's a lot more we don't know of, not just something like Zandalar or a zone hidden in plain sight, I subscribe to the idea the globe they've presented in game, and the world they've written about in-lore, isn't missing quite as much landmass as you're arguing. Certainly not "half a planet's worth."

[Destinas]

I suppose. My argument was always simply dismissive of the idea of "another side of Azeroth" the way it was framed to make it something more than it'll likely actually be, supported by Blizzard likely maintaining the integrity of their lore (I know... try not to laugh) as far as what Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor represent to their story and Azeroth as a whole. They will always be the focal point of the story, the two largest chunks of the one mega continent, and introducing anything of comparable size on "another side of the planet" to me is counterintuitive to the story they have told, and continue to tell, and the precedent they've set since Pandaria insofar what they do want to introduce, that being not go bigger than before, but rather more imaginative than before (AU Draenor, Argus, Nazjatar, Shadowlands) being new quest zones and world to explore without having to be on the physical land so the planet doesn't get infinitely ballooned.

I'm not sure about other people, but I've used the term "landmass" because it's not accurate to say "island" or "continent" in some cases. Pandaria is a continent that's not nearly the size of the other 3. KT/Zand/Broken Isles are more like series of islands, but for in-game purposes they're just landmasses.

I don't think they'd ever add anything near the size of EK/Kal ever again, and I haven't been arguing that. I'm not sure anyone here is. If Blizz wanted to make something that big they woild, but I don't see that happening. Perhaps somewhere between Pandaria and Broken Isles in size.

I also don't really see a problem with ballooning the map. Azeroth is said to be a huge planet. It's meant to be a World of Warcraft to explore, and over the years everything has gotten grander in size with each expansion.

If they did another hemisphere of Azeroth as an expansion, they could easily take a break and go to a new realm or world, and add anything else to Azeroth again wherever they want. They kind of do this anyway. We don't stay away for too long, and we usually have at least a couple expansions on Azeroth in a row.

It would be difficult for Blizzard to simultaneously make Azeroth the focal point of WoW while not adding too much more to the map. Maps just change over time.

[Ielenia]

My disagreement with you is that the map you see, you believe represents only the northern hemisphere of Azeroth, and I don't believe the evidence you've provided substantially proves that.

One again: WRONG!

Holy hell, you haven't gotten it right even once!

I have never said "I believe the in-game world map represents only the northern hemisphere of Azeroth".

It's a hint at stretching what we see a bit, to introduce a few islands here and there, yes, but to the extent you're talking? That's quite a leap to me,

Once again, you're talking bullshit, because, as I've already pointed before, I never made any comment regarding the sizes of the landmasses that may exist on the other side of Azeroth.

I subscribe to the idea the globe they've presented in game,

So you subscribe to the idea that this is Azeroth, "as it is presented in the game"?

I still wonder why the Titans felt like they should represent Azyremyst and Bloodmyst isles, but not bigger, more important isles, like Zandalar. Hmm....

[Kyphael]

I'm not sure about other people, but I've used the term "landmass" because it's not accurate to say "island" or "continent" in some cases. Pandaria is a continent that's not nearly the size of the other 3. KT/Zand/Broken Isles are more like series of islands, but for in-game purposes they're just landmasses.

I don't think they'd ever add anything near the size of EK/Kal ever again, and I haven't been arguing that. I'm not sure anyone here is. If Blizz wanted to make something that big they woild, but I don't see that happening. Perhaps somewhere between Pandaria and Broken Isles in size.

I also don't really see a problem with ballooning the map. Azeroth is said to be a huge planet. It's meant to be a World of Warcraft to explore, and over the years everything has gotten grander in size with each expansion.

If they did another hemisphere of Azeroth as an expansion, they could easily take a break and go to a new realm or world, and add anything else to Azeroth again wherever they want. They kind of do this anyway. We don't stay away for too long, and we usually have at least a couple expansions on Azeroth in a row.

It would be difficult for Blizzard to simultaneously make Azeroth the focal point of WoW while not adding too much more to the map. Maps just change over time.

Fair enough, I can see your point, but from a writer's standpoint, I just don't agree that is the direction they will take as evidenced by what they've done since Pandaria, and the story they have told. I certainly don't think there's a whole hemisphere's worth of landmasses floating out there. I could be wrong, or I could be right, only time will tell.

They can definitely add more to it and continue stretching that bad boy, there's still water to cover, as much as they want, not a whole hemisphere's worth mind you, in my opinion, but I believe everything added since Vanilla and going forward will always exist with Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor as the focal points. Everything else is fluff. Their commitment to updating those continents in Cataclysm, and continuously doing so with phasing demonstrates that. They are the centers of the world they've created, and they hang onto that as much as they hang onto their 2-Faction system, and the continents are representative of that. It's why we hear people go "when are they going to revamp the world again?" more so than "say... how about that new continent?"

[Baroclinic]

We've seen Azeroth from space. At this point, the notion that half the planet is still unknown is ridiculous.

It's fine to add in previously unreachable areas (Pandaria) or previously insignificant ones (Broken Isles) but we should have a pretty good idea of all major continents and whatnot.

Azeroth is flat. As such, we will only be able to see one side. Also, since it is flat, the other side won't get any sunlight. And anything not nailed down will fall off.

[Kyphael]

One again: WRONG!

Holy hell, you haven't gotten it right even once!

I have never said "I believe the in-game world map represents only the northern hemisphere of Azeroth".


Once again, you're talking bullshit, because, as I've already pointed before, I never made any comment regarding the sizes of the landmasses that may exist on the other side of Azeroth.


So you subscribe to the idea that this is Azeroth, "as it is presented in the game"?

I still wonder why the Titans felt like they should represent Azyremyst and Bloodmyst isles, but not bigger, more important isles, like Zandalar. Hmm....

You keep going back and forth moving goalposts and changing the direction of the conversation to fit your argument. We've presented our arguments, and we're not going to come to an agreement, you think I'm full of shit, I think your evidence is lacking, best to leave it at that. We've hijacked this thread long enough and you're getting a bit too hot to carry on. Pretty soon you're going to be posting in size 32 font to get your point across. It's not that I don't see your evidence, I just don't think it's good enough an argument. The problem is you think it is, and I can't help that.

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Azeroth is flat. As such, we will only be able to see one side. Also, since it is flat, the other side won't get any sunlight. And anything not nailed down will fall off.

At least you're more honest about your argument than @Ielenia is, even if you are being hilariously sarcastic. I kid Ielenia, but not really.

[Ielenia]

You keep going back and forth moving goalposts and changing the direction of the conversation to fit your argument. We've presented our arguments, and we're not going to come to an agreement, you think I'm full of shit, I think your evidence is lacking, best to leave it at that.

Dude, I've never, not even once, moved the goalposts. It's either your inability, or unwillingness, to understand what I'm writing. I'll repeat: not even once you properly represented my arguments, going insofar as to make false claims about what I "believe".

Don't try to push the blame on me when you constantly misrepresent my arguments, and I have to constantly explain everything, here.