Development Update: The Road to Shadowlands

[Usernameforforums]

Torghast needs an infinite mode. Its a roguelike/lite. It need to have a softcap rather than a hard cap. If they really want it at 18 floors then make floor 18 very challenging but doable but floor 19 and up impossible. Just implement the risk of rain 2 system and gg.

[Vlex]

Good stuff. Covenant system sounds great, some choice in this game needs to matter past picking your class.

Don't listen to these entitled whiners who want everything handed to them.

[Ashiraya]

Great update. They have a lot of balancing left to do but the fact that they explicitly mentioned one of the biggest offenders is reassuring.

I agree with why they think covenants are valuable. I am hoping they make that system as polished as they can.

[Mothy]

Just pull the ripcord on the "talents are linked with the covenant choice"... no one want's this

Rather than add yet another layer to that decision matrix, we’re trying to do something different here,

But still it is just another layer you are adding!? You are literally adding the biggest layer that have ever been seen in the history of WoW!? If I choose x covenant I will be near useless in high rated arena, but if I don't pick x covenant I can't join high rated keys.. So now I have to go trough a tremendous process that takes weeks to change covenant every time I do z activity. Holy dam shit this system is giving me a lot of anxiety. PLEASE PLEASE don't let it go live like this.


Edit: some good notes and concern on things not related the the covenants. I like that the pvp vendor itemization is getting looked at. But all this dwarfs the covenant problem.

[Onikaroshi]

Shouldn't they be announcing the prepatch date like right about now? 2-3 weeks away? :/

They'll give a 2 week either tomorrow or next thursday,

But the last 2 prepatches only had 5 days between full announcement and patch day.

[Omedon]

This is probably the most sincere response to the feedback we've read, and it makes me feel like Blizzard is listening to its audience for the first time since Cata. I see only positive steps on the right direction and I love it. Hopefully they continue like this.

At this point there is no argument that "they aren't listening." As it's been for months: they are listening, they just fundamentally disagree. It's their game, and that's their right. I respect that.

It is also a player's right to quit in protest. I won't, I like this covenant system, but that's my right as well.

[Cosmic Janitor]

"meaningfull choice" rofl, the saga continues.

Anyway, glad they at least have torghast somewhere on their TODO list before launch. If feared they were actually happy with the current implementation.

[Shedaar]

How come you can believe they will balance this?
They cant balance talent row with 3 abilities, let alone convenants + soulbinds that intertwine each other

[Kallisto]

This will 100% turn into 'what cov are you?' when pugging.

These people then should be shunned out of the game, not catered to.

[Pury]

Nothing changed, really, all they did is addressed #pulltheripcord thing.
If they manage to make a solid balancing job, then it will be fine.
If not, they will change covenant system, just like Ion said.
Either way it should be fine. In theory. Will see what will happen in reality.

[Lucrece]

No amount of numerical tuning will fix the fact that if class abilities are close together, my DK and warlock will be pressured to take Venthyr/Night Fae over the rest since their mobility is virtually nonexistant.

They're also pretending covenants have set strengths and weaknesses, but they don't. For some classes, the same covenant can provide either aoe or ST abilities, and the soulbinds don't change to compensate for those deficits.

A DH with Kyrian covenant doesn't have the option for a soulbind to make up for that lack of ST Venthyr offers, while at the same time a Kyrian DK with its ST ability doesn't have the covenant soulbind giving them AoE.

The covenants are impossible to balance appropriately for each spec, and since they tied covenants to aesthetics and story this will end up with a very bad taste for many people.

As a night elf player I can go with a Maldraxxus that aesthetically fits my DK (mounts, armor, class ability looks) but has completely irrelevant main characters (a human and an orc) and misses out on Tyrande, Ysera, the night warrior storyline, and the much more useful mobility covenant skill Night Fae offers an immobile class like DK.

For some classes like even shaman, no covenant even seems like a right fit, aesthetically or thematically.

It's bad design through and through.

[Eapoe]

Still no changes, updates, nerfs, or buffs for MM or SV Hunters.

[Cosmic Janitor]

How come you can believe they will balance this?
They cant balance talent row with 3 abilities, let alone convenants + soulbinds that intertwine each other

I'm not even sure how soulbinds are intertwined with the class abilitites. There is a single conduit for each class&covenant that deals with the class ability, but the soulbinds are mostly generic trash and in rare cases there is interaction with the covenant utility ability from what I've seen from the classes I was interested in. I'm sure they could just make that conduit trigger the effect of the respecitve covenant ability without any issues, since this aspect is completely one dimensional.

[Alcsaar]

Boom, covenant intended as conceptual identity choice, as I've always said. And there it is. If your character doesn't have a strong enough identity, that's not Blizz's problem. Thank you.

It would be fine if the covenants didn't offer different levels of character power. We know that they will never, ever be able to perfectly balance covenant abilities, and as a result, tying a semi permanent decision directly to things that influence character power is grade A terrible design choice.

We've already seen this time and time again with even less power-swinging systems in the game - like professions. People switching professions in droves because JC is superior to everything else one expansion, or whatever.

[Mothy]

Good stuff. Covenant system sounds great, some choice in this game needs to matter past picking your class.

Don't listen to these entitled whiners who want everything handed to them.

Have you even played 1 hour on the beta!? How can you defend this system, at least add one valid reason to your opinion.

This system is literally:

Did you take the wise choice of going to Harvard? You did not? Sorry then you can't apply for a Driver License, Vote in the election, own a laundry machine. But you are permitted to eat vegetables and go to cinemas, but only once every 2 week.

Choices should express your individuality but not engineer an unfair playing field. It's almost as dumb as telling a women or a black person that they made the wrong choice and they now don't deserve equal salary.

[Omedon]

It would be fine if the covenants different offer different levels of character power. We know that they will never, ever be able to perfectly balance covenant abilities, and as a result, tying a semi permanent decision directly to things that influence character power is grade a stupid.

You're of course allowed to think that, and they're allowed to disagree.

[Araxie]

These people then should be shunned out of the game, not catered to.

I wouldn't say shunned, but I agree that it's not healthy for the community to do this. Just because Icy-veins is going to say "X-Covenant edges out the others slightly for Y-class" doesn't mean that a Y-class with a Z-Covenant isn't viable. They're still going to kill, tank and heal all the same. Maybe one will do a little better in AoE, but that's already the case with classes. Warlock can AoE, but compared to DH, it's just not a contest. Maybe I should just be able to switch my class to DH every time I want to AoE, huh?

Seriously, this system isn't that bad. People are just worried that someone in a different covenant will edge them out in DPS by a small margin. Chill people.

[bloodwulf]

No wait hold the f***ing phone!

"Speaking of Twisting Corridors, as we finalize tuning, Twisting Corridors should come into its own as the “Challenge Mode” wing of Torghast, offering eighteen-floor runs at a higher level of difficulty than the rest of Torghast, with cosmetic rewards for clearing certain thresholds."

Is that what has become of the supposed "Infinite Dungeon" that Torghast was ment to be? Are you legit telling me that there will be no infinite climb mode and that I will only get 18 floors to climb; Then I will have to start over from scratch and just do 0-18 again? That can't be it? There still must be a infinite mode which is there just for s**ts n giggles? Screw if it has any rewards or not of any kind; What I was looking forward too in Shadowlands was to climb this supposed "infinite tower" they pushed so heavy at Blizzcon; So for the love of the Jailer please tell me this 18 floor thing is it's own thing and that there still will be a mode that just goes on forever...

Bro, the infinite mode as been dead for literally months. It was not fun for anyone involved. It was only difficult the first couple of floors and then your power got so grossly overdone that there was no challenge to be found past those. The 18 floor system is much better than the "infinite" they had previously.

[Squishlee]

Yea, this is fucked. Either they will end up with a shit system until 9.3, OR they will nerf covenant abilities so bad you don't even press them which will just mean "choose venthyr for the teleport". GG Blizz, GG.

[RCA]

When did they change the infinite tower to 18 floors? Honest, this is first time I’m finding out about this, what’d they have scaling issue I presume.