Crusader Kings 3

[Dezerte]

By no means an expert, but from what I've found out:

What is the benefit of forming a Duchy vs having each county being independent?

You gain prestige. You also gain passive prestige-gain each title you own (although you can't own too many without opinion penalties) and passive renown-gain for highest title. Forming a duchy on counties for a vassal will improve their opinion of you for some time.

Other then forming alliances does it matter who you pick to have your children marry?

Getting congenital traits on your spouses increases the chance of passing them down on the children. You probably don't want the negative traits, but the positive ones are good.

[Mehrunes]

A few questions for anyone who is more knowledgeable.

What is the benefit of forming a Duchy vs having each county being independent?

Realm consolidation. There is a limit to how many vassals you can have directly. It can be checked in the realm tab, near the bottom. It's 40 for kings and 60 for emperors. Going beyond the vassal limit will give you penalties to levies. Using an example from my current game since I just got a bunch of new vassals to organize: I'm 6 vassals above the limit. Because of that my vassals have a 0.7 modifier to the levies and money they give me.

Also, since this indicates you are already a king, you will also have Not Rightful Liege penalty. Though in this case, since you are, I assume, the de jure king of those counties, that penalty will be halved. If that's the case, you will get 0.75 modifier to money and levies you get from those counts. If you're not the de jure king of the counts in question, you will get 0.50 modifier.

Other then forming alliances does it matter who you pick to have your children marry?

Yes. Congenital traits of characters have a chance of being passed to successors (including to grandchildren, in case the children did not get them). And the good congenital traits give pretty strong bonuses. Congenital traits are shown in the menu for selecting spouses. Look out for the green ones as they are the positive ones. Avoid the red ones.

Is it worth investing money in buildings in your counties?

Yes. They boost you directly, making you stronger in comparison to your vassals, making the vassals less likely to rebel. Also make you stronger overall, making it easier to wage wars against other realms. Some also have good realm bonuses like boosting the effectiveness of your knights. In case you own a holy site, they also get pretty great special buildings. And if you play as a feudal, you get access to ducal buildings that are also stronger than the standard ones.

Is it worth trying consolidate county titles under the duchy title holder? IE: Is it worth it to consolidate the titles Earl of Ulster, Oriel and Ailech under the Petty King of Ulster, so that 1 person holds all 4 titles for the county.

As already talked about in the first paragraph, yes. If you skip a tier in the hierarchy of titles, you will get a 0.75 modifier to the levies and money you get from your de jure counts. Unless you have the relevant duchy title yourself. But if you're king/emperor, you can only hold two duchy titles yourself. Anything above that will give you -15 opinion penalty per additional duchy title.

Now, that doesn't mean the Petty King of Ulster in this example needs to have all three Eearldoms directly. He can hold just one of those Earldoms as his personal demense. But he should have the other two Earls as his direct vassals. Because (on top of the Not Rightful Ruler penalties you'll get with the other two earls covered above) if you create that duchy level title, but don't grant its owner direct over those earls, he'll get an opinion penalty with you.

Keep in mind that the Rightful Ruler mechanic applies to your vassal dukes as well. So, following your example, if you give the Earl of Breifne as a vassal to the Petty King of Ulster as well, then the Petty King of Ulster will get 0.50 modifier to money and levies he'll receive from the Earl of Breifne. And since now you'll get the money and levies from those counties through the Petty King of Ulster, that will carry over to what you'll get from him.

[Fayolynn]

First thank you for all your answers. There is so much going on in the game its a bit overwhelming at times.

Realm consolidation. There is a limit to how many vassals you can have directly. It can be checked in the realm tab, near the bottom. It's 40 for kings and 60 for emperors. Going beyond the vassal limit will give you penalties to levies. Using an example from my current game since I just got a bunch of new vassals to organize: I'm 6 vassals above the limit. Because of that my vassals have a 0.7 modifier to the levies and money they give me.

Also, since this indicates you are already a king, you will also have Not Rightful Liege penalty. Though in this case, since you are, I assume, the de jure king of those counties, that penalty will be halved. If that's the case, you will get 0.75 modifier to money and levies you get from those counts. If you're not the de jure king of the counts in question, you will get 0.50 modifier.

Gotcha, is that penalty a fixed percent or does it depend on how far over the cap you go? On Vassals, what determines if a vassal is a "strong vassal" or not? I often find myself with Vassals crying for a spot on my council but their skill sets are horrible so I have no opening for them.

Gotcha on the Rightful Liege stuff.

Yes. Congenital traits of characters have a chance of being passed to successors (including to grandchildren, in case the children did not get them). And the good congenital traits give pretty strong bonuses. Congenital traits are shown in the menu for selecting spouses. Look out for the green ones as they are the positive ones. Avoid the red ones.

Other then those traits, do the skill levels (Diplomacy Learning ect) matter at all? Like do they have an impact on the skill levels your children are born with?

Yes. They boost you directly, making you stronger in comparison to your vassals, making the vassals less likely to rebel. Also make you stronger overall, making it easier to wage wars against other realms. Some also have good realm bonuses like boosting the effectiveness of your knights. In case you own a holy site, they also get pretty great special buildings. And if you play as a feudal, you get access to ducal buildings that are also stronger than the standard ones.

The bonuses just seem extremely underwhelming for their costs, especially early game. Like spending 100 gold to build something that will take damn near 40 years to pay for itself. I can see how the realm wide bonuses are worth it. Also I've noticed sometimes a county builds a county on its own. What determines that?

As already talked about in the first paragraph, yes. If you skip a tier in the hierarchy of titles, you will get a 0.75 modifier to the levies and money you get from your de jure counts. Unless you have the relevant duchy title yourself. But if you're king/emperor, you can only hold two duchy titles yourself. Anything above that will give you -15 opinion penalty per additional duchy title.

Now, that doesn't mean the Petty King of Ulster in this example doesn't need to have all three Eearldoms directly. He can hold just one of those Earldoms as his personal demense. But he should have the other two Earls as his direct vassals. Because (on top of the Not Rightful Ruler penalties you'll get with the other two earls covered above) if you create that duchy level title, but don't grant its owner direct over those earls, he'll get an opinion penalty with you.

Keep in mind that the Rightful Ruler mechanic applies to your vassal dukes as well. So, following your example, if you give the Earl of Breifne as a vassal to the Petty King of Ulster as well, then the Petty King of Ulster will get 0.50 modifier to money and levies he'll receive from the Earl of Breifne. And since now you'll get the money and levies from those counties through the Petty King of Ulster, that will carry over to what you'll get from him.

Gotcha, so the main thing is to make sure everything flows.

[Dezerte]

I see. I noticed a bug in regards to succession being wonky due to titles having their own succession laws, but that's when all had confederate succession with male preference (yes, some still counted as having different succession due to very idiotic reasons). But I have no experience with elective election, so I can't help you with that.

I can help you with the counties though. Assuming the UI shows correct information in this case and your primary heir won't get any of your counties, he will be granted a random country within his realm upon your death. Though I'd lean towards the UI being wrong in this case. Secondary heirs are not supposed to get the capital territory (especially if they are already given territory prior to your death), which in your case I assume is in Uppland. Yet the second son is shown to get every single county in that duchy.

Just as an update, my heir got the capital county but nothing else (other than the previously mentioned duchies, kingdoms and empire titles under elective system).

[Echeyakee]

The game is good, but I wish they would of included more in the initial release. Especially republics and cults/secret societies. I never seen CK as a map painting game, mostly because it's super easy to do, once you're past the artificial roadblocks of inheritance laws and such.

Unfortunately there is not much to do right now, outside of said map painting.

[zealo]

The game is good, but I wish they would of included more in the initial release. Especially republics and cults/secret societies. I never seen CK as a map painting game, mostly because it's super easy to do, once you're past the artificial roadblocks of inheritance laws and such.

Unfortunately there is not much to do right now, outside of said map painting.

Both of those deserves and requires significant reworks from how they were in CK2, I'm honestly ok with republics and societies not being in at the moment, so long as we eventually get them in a much better fashion than them just being feudalism+, like in CK2.

[Mehrunes]

Gotcha, is that penalty a fixed percent or does it depend on how far over the cap you go? On Vassals, what determines if a vassal is a "strong vassal" or not? I often find myself with Vassals crying for a spot on my council but their skill sets are horrible so I have no opening for them.

The penalty for being above the vassal limit scales. As for powerful vassals, it's the ones with strongest army+income. If you increase their opinion with you, you can simply ignore their desire to be on the council.

Other then those traits, do the skill levels (Diplomacy Learning ect) matter at all? Like do they have an impact on the skill levels your children are born with?

I don't know what determines the base skills of your children, but the skills of your spouse do matter for other reasons. First of all, if your spouse is either unlanded or a vassal of yours, they will sit on your council in a special position. They don't have any council actions like other councilors. Instead, they boost your skills. The amount of boost is a percentage of their skill. You can also pick between them focusing all of your skills by a smaller percentage, or a single skill by a higher percentage. So you can pick a spouse to cover the skill you are lacking in or one that will double down on your strength. Also, the learning skill of a guardian impacts the education level of their ward. And if you have more than 2 children, the spouse is the most hassle-free pick for educating the other children.

The bonuses just seem extremely underwhelming for their costs, especially early game. Like spending 100 gold to build something that will take damn near 40 years to pay for itself. I can see how the realm wide bonuses are worth it. Also I've noticed sometimes a county builds a county on its own. What determines that?

I was mostly thinking about the buildings that give you extra levies. As for gold, given that you are playing in Ireland, you can raid other rulers for easy money. Occasionally you'll also kindap people during raid sieges, whom you can then ransom for even more money. And if you go down the intrigue route, you can unlock the ability to kidnap other characters for even more ransom. And if you're intrigue is high you can even kidnap the likes of the pope or foreign kings. Those give a huge amount of cash on ransom.

And I don't know what you mean by a county building a county on its own. Can you elaborate on that?

[LilSaihah]

This game's okay I guess. I've played it every day flat out since I worked out how to get it in Australia. Cracks are starting to show, but it's insanely addictive.

The bonuses just seem extremely underwhelming for their costs, especially early game. Like spending 100 gold to build something that will take damn near 40 years to pay for itself. I can see how the realm wide bonuses are worth it. Also I've noticed sometimes a county builds a county on its own. What determines that?

Buildings are a "when you're ahead, get more ahead" thing to do. You don't build for any kind of immediate boost; you build so that when the game decides to take all your stuff away after you die, you aren't screwed over as hard.
Your income is going to tank when you die; income buildings give you a buffer while you fight the succession crisis.
Your vassals are going to gun for you when you die; levy buildings deter that.
Realm-wide bonuses are pretty powerful and they can help you snowball in an expansion phase.

Usually when you have gold you can put it towards men-at-arms, buildings or stress relief. Buildings are the long-term investment.

Also r.e. counties building their own buildings; temples are usually run by your court chaplain (depending on your faith) and cities are run by mayors. They'll take the lion's share of the money, but they'll pay vassal taxes to you and put money back into their buildings. They also count as characters so if you need someone to kidnap and torture you can put down a city.

[Echeyakee]

Both of those deserves and requires significant reworks from how they were in CK2, I'm honestly ok with republics and societies not being in at the moment, so long as we eventually get them in a much better fashion than them just being feudalism+, like in CK2.

Not sure what you mean. Cults were amazing in CK2. Sure, not all of them were top tier, but my best memories of the game were from playing with things like Lucifer's Own or Warrior Lodge. Gave you a lot of things to do that were not directly conquest related. Really helped with non viking tribal gameplay, specifically early on when there is not much to do.

As for republics, I just liked how they allowed you to play tall from the start, instead of having to fuck around with inheritance laws for half the game.

[zealo]

Not sure what you mean. Cults were amazing in CK2. Sure, not all of them were top tier, but my best memories of the game were from playing with things like Lucifer's Own or Warrior Lodge. Gave you a lot of things to do that were not directly conquest related. Really helped with non viking tribal gameplay, specifically early on when there is not much to do.

As for republics, I just liked how they allowed you to play tall from the start, instead of having to fuck around with inheritance laws for half the game.

Republics as previously implemented were hamstrung by the fact you were still dealing with dynasties as a primary succession inheritance model in them for continued play. They essentially functioned as an elective monarchy based a bit upon buying your way into getting your heir in, with some special buildings, where you eventually outpace the AI to such an extent that it's completely impossible for them to ever catch up. That's not even getting into the lack of modelling of trade of goods and resources.

CK has never been great at modelling forms of government that were much more bureaucratic in nature rather than being outright about dynastic succession.

[Mehrunes]

The game is good, but I wish they would of included more in the initial release. Especially republics and cults/secret societies. I never seen CK as a map painting game, mostly because it's super easy to do, once you're past the artificial roadblocks of inheritance laws and such.

Unfortunately there is not much to do right now, outside of said map painting.

Can't say I agree with that. CKIII has almost all of the features of CKII and its expansions and then some. On top of that it heavily expanded on some of the more popular ones (lifestyle and pagan reformation) and used them as the basis of its systems. You listed like a third of the features that didn't make it into the game. Aside from those two the key CKII DLC features that are missing are the Catholic conclave system, nomad government, inventory and China interaction. And great works, I suppose, but that was a free patch feature and there are some special buildings that sort of cover that niche.

Other forms of government is something Paradox wanted to rework, so it makes sense they'd be delayed. The conclave is also coming. And given the starting size of the map, China seems like the most obvious choice for further map expansion. Societies also seem like an obvious choice to make a return, but at the same time they were criticized by some of the players so likely Paradox wants to do them differently this time.

If anything, this is how you make a sequel to a game with this many DLCs. It avoided the Sims syndrome by miles.

Republics as previously implemented were hamstrung by the fact you were still dealing with dynasties as a primary succession inheritance model in them for continued play. They essentially functioned as an elective monarchy based a bit upon buying your way into getting your heir in, with some special buildings, where you eventually outpace the AI to such an extent that it's completely impossible for them to ever catch up. That's not even getting into the lack of modelling of trade of goods and resources.

CK has never been great at modelling forms of government that were much more bureaucratic in nature rather than being outright about dynastic succession.

Not to mention that merchant republic government couldn't work with equal or matriarchal religion reformation at all.

[VinceVega]

This is the best investement i made in YEARS! Loves stellaris, love this one.

Quick question: Can i start a new faith as pagan or is reform the only possibility?

[Mehrunes]

This is the best investement i made in YEARS! Loves stellaris, love this one.

Quick question: Can i start a new faith as pagan or is reform the only possibility?

You can only reform the faith as unreformed pagan. Though once you reform you can create new faiths for the reformed faiths as normal.

[XDurionX]

I need to marry better too. These bitches are not loyal.

Basically, it's a mess.

I like this kind of realism.

[Echeyakee]

Can't say I agree with that. CKIII has almost all of the features of CKII and its expansions and then some. On top of that it heavily expanded on some of the more popular ones (lifestyle and pagan reformation) and used them as the basis of its systems. You listed like a third of the features that didn't make it into the game. Aside from those two the key CKII DLC features that are missing are the Catholic conclave system, nomad government, inventory and China interaction. And great works, I suppose, but that was a free patch feature and there are some special buildings that sort of cover that niche.

Other forms of government is something Paradox wanted to rework, so it makes sense they'd be delayed. The conclave is also coming. And given the starting size of the map, China seems like the most obvious choice for further map expansion. Societies also seem like an obvious choice to make a return, but at the same time they were criticized by some of the players so likely Paradox wants to do them differently this time.

If anything, this is how you make a sequel to a game with this many DLCs. It avoided the Sims syndrome by miles.

Not to mention that merchant republic government couldn't work with equal or matriarchal religion reformation at all.

I would agree with the lifestyles, although it's rather wonky right now. For example stewardship focus has very little to offer, except the blackmail money and flat dev growth in capital. If anything, overseer branch looks like a much better "macro" choice. But I would not call pagan reformation expanded. It's more or less the same requirements and you just create a brand new religion when you do it. If you have enough piety, it can have 0 similarities to the old one. And it's the same with heresies. If anything, no religion feels unique in any way, as they all are just different combinations of the same elements. IMO it's a much worse implementation than what EU4 has.

And anyway, we are getting bogged down in semantics. My main complaint is that there is nothing to do except map painting. You can do eugenics, but with the renown bonuses it kinda happens on it's own, if you go for blood perks.

[KrayZ33]

I don't think there was actually anything preventing the AI from declaring war on crusaders in CKII (well, unless they were also in the crusade). I think what's going on here is that the AI in CKIII is much more aggressive. And unless you're... creatively using the game mechanics (like declaring wars on a bunch of people you just kidnapped with scheming), in CKIII it also takes longer to get the ball rolling (unless you start as the Byzantine Empire or something like that), meaning that the AI will spend a longer amount of time matching the player in terms of military strength. It also has laser focus on exploiting vulnerability, other factors be damned (that's why the Vikings go for individual counties across the map instead of focusing on their neighborhood). So if you got weakened by crusading the AI would do just that, increased opinion from you being a crusader not even registering on their radar. Also, the word you're looking for is impious.

Well, as far as I remember there was a huge piety/prestige hit if you declared war on a crusading lord of the same faith. I didn't do it myself yet in CK3 but it seems like the AI doesn't really care about that much anymore as it did in CK2.

I disagree with CK3 taking longer to get the ball rolling though... It seems like you can conquer just about everything easy and soon, even as a normal feudal county since fabricating claims is easy and cheap.

I agree with the AI being a lot more agressive. I also think this is due to how easy it is to get claims and war targets.
It's the same in CK2 if you enable the ... what is it called? "Free CB for the first 20 years"?

The AI gets nuts and small counties are being eaten left and right. CK3 is basically "permanent free CB"

I would agree with the lifestyles, although it's rather wonky right now. For example stewardship focus has very little to offer, except the blackmail money and flat dev growth in capital.

don't forget that you can make unlimited amounts of republic vassals in CK3... and the stewardship focus gives you *alot* of money from republic vassals.... I think... 50%+ of their income?
Cities generate twice as much as castles, which basically means that you get as much income as if you would own all the castles throughout your domain.

[Stealthyjake]

I wish I was more motivated to learn this game, I tried playing 2 but gave up after like 20 mins cos I had no idea what to do or how to do anything. Way to confusing for my fragile little mind xD

[Kasierith]

Relationships can get very weird, especially if you have gender equality set in. Was a duchess whose father was the king, and his wife my mother became a countess by inheritance and he then gave my mother to me as a vassal. I then murdered my father, which shattered Bulgaria into its constituent duchies and within 15 years I had conquered five kingdoms and am working on the sixth to do the unite the southern slav's quest. Byzantium dow'd me to install a new count to replace my mother, which I surrendered immediately, and then swore fealty to Byzantium who then gave me control of the same county, and within a year the new count died without any family and I returned control to my mother who then joined a reduce crown authority uprising and was summarily crushed. She then figured out who had killed the king and shattered the kingdom, and tried to blackmail me, to which I responded by imprisoning her and tossing her in the dungeon.

10/10 can't wait for DLC's to come out.

[Logwyn]

Fuck yeah Crusader Kings 2 is just amazing.

I"m still trying to decide if I really want to jump down this rabbit hole. Since I have everything for CK2 and can convert CK2 to a EUIV game and keep playing.

[KrayZ33]

I"m still trying to decide if I really want to jump down this rabbit hole. Since I have everything for CK2 and can convert CK2 to a EUIV game and keep playing.

What's the point of converting a ck2 game to EUIV? Never understood the appeal.
If I want EUIV mechanics, I should just...well start a EUIV game, no?

Or is it because of the game-over screen at 1450ish in ck2?
You can play forever in CK3, there is no limit unless you want to.


Btw, I think the best change from CK2 is how combat works and how armies are done.
The CK3 knights/men-at-arms/levies warfare is far better than CK2's retinue and levy system (and levies are basically retinues there too) if you ask me.
It's just... overall much cooler, I can't really explain why.