Nightborne vs Bloodelf mage! lorewise , which one is stronger?

[Beloren]

For arcane, Nightborne. Why? 10,000 years in an arcane bubble buddle and studying arcane magic far beyond the rest of the world. Their culture seems to have very little signs of use of fire or frost magic however.
Child: "Mom, Dad. My major will be fire"
Parents: GASP!


For fire and frost, Blood Elves.


Silly Answer: Humans, clearly.

But humans are already the best Warriors, the best Paladins, the best rogues, the best priests, the best hunters (even though they only recently got the class), the best warlocks, the best DKs and now the best mages? I wouldn't be surprised if they're soon the best shaman, druids and demon hunters. No wonder Shandris was all doe eyed over her human male's potential.

I bet they bone her better than any night elf could.

[Dalheim]

Medivh and Jaina? Or Jaina and Khadgar? Medivh is still alive, right?

Medivh is something.

[Kyphael]

Medivh is something.

No I get it, for all we know, he's probably a powerless old man behind a curtain with smoke and mirrors like Oz masquerading as the real Medivh.

[Katsutomai]

Nah, that would be Night elf, Azshara and Illidan. They're stronger than Jaina and Khadagar. and if you're referring to the Guardians Aegwyn and Medivh, remember their super powering is bestowed, not natural,

Now Queen Azshara, Illidan, Elisande, Farondis, Kael'thas, Darth'remar, Xavius, Anasterin, even Rommath and Aethas - these are mage heavy hitters - all elven.

Illidan is no longer on Azeroth and is definitely not a Mage.

[Beloren]

Illidan is no longer on Azeroth and is definitely not a Mage.

He is listed in the wow official book as Azeroths greatest Sorceror. (although I interpret that as "one of"). but do people seriously not realise that some Legendary characters are more than one class?

Illidan is fel commanding, melee wielding - Sorceror that happens to be a powerful melee combatant too that hunts demons. OR did you not know that Magecraft is his major discipline and all the fel wielding magic is an extension of that.

[Echil46]

I'd say Nightbornes are better scholars, Blood Elves are better Battle Magi.

Night Elves, while elven are more scholars than battle mages, and they're far behind Nightbornes.

[Dalheim]

Illidan is no longer on Azeroth and is definitely not a Mage.

He used to be one during the War of the Ancients.

[Amaterasu65]

The blood elves never left their arcane mastery. They did have a reset, unlike the Nightborne and shen'drlaar, the Night elf survivors outside the two surviving cities lost everything. Furhermore, their decision not to use the arcane meant they abanodoned returning to fallen cities or rebuilding, instead choosing to stay near the new well of eternity and Nordrassil that was grown to disguise it's power from the twisting nether, and prevent any race from using it - all to stop the demons returning.

The sunstriders were among that group for 3,000 years. No arcane, no knowledge, no tomes, vast majority of the knowledge of the night elves lost - but this was the opposite for the Shen'dralar in Dire Maul, and those they left behind in Suramar -scholars, and magicians could continue their studies. They are often described as feverishly studying the arcane in Eldre'thalas, and continuing in the paradise like environs of Suramar upheld by the magic of the Night well.

Meanwhile, when talking sense to MAlfurion seems o fail, and the high elves get wrongfully kicked out, and severed from the WEll of Eternity and the Nordarassil bonds, they are left to fend for themselves and have to start everythin up again with just the knoweldge in their heads.

For a 3,000 year break and having literally nothing but a vial, the built Quelt'halas, and Silvermoon, such an incredible place in the midst of high opposition and struggle. The peace the night elf empire was able to flourish in did not exist for the blood elves. And while we haven't reached the levels of advancement the kaldorei ancestors were at 10,000 years ago, we made some great advancements - they never had flying academies - that we know of..


The high elf society was fund on freedom of magic, all magic, for all, ofc as arcane was the one contested, this largely came to be interpreted as arcane, but it wasn't limited to that, as long as it wasn't dark magic and could be used safely without calling the legion (hence the Ban'dinoriel) then it was fine.

As a full society, engaging (without choice) with the other denizens around them, like trolls and humans, magic couldn't e a singular focus, had to have great warriors, hunters, rangers, spies etc etc, and ofc also grew in the light.

THe blood el society is very strong arcane wise, it's just that arcane isn't hte oly prusuit, they're great Rangers and Paladins, something that has grown stronger in them since the half divine state of the sunwell

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And humans, while having some amazing mages - Jaina, Khadgar, Medivh - are not the best mages. Because Dalaran is the international mage city, not Silvermoon or Suramar (because elves don't like foreign non-elven visitors), they get to feature a lot, especially being the sole focus of the alliance. It would not be the case if blizzard had focused on the Draenei or Night elves who boast Highborne and Moonguard with solid lore.

When you look at the world's greatest mages, the list has more elves than humans, although many are Night elven. And if you follow the lore, the number of magicians, fully qualified and magic users (from little, to a lot) is far more prevalent in the elves than the humans.

Also the elves can wield every form of magic out there and are quickly famous for being the best with them - like Fel (Illidari) and Void (void elves). Humans are very talented at magic, but it's a greater thing in elves.

1) Why did you push NE into this when the comparison is between Nightborne and Blood Elves? Also I didn't say the Blood Elves forsake their arcane ancestry but it's pretty obvious that it's second nature now compared to the Light. They don't have any notable mage right now, Kael'thas was the last good one and they did him dirty.

2) Human mages are the best mages right now. Jaina, Khadgar, Medivh, Aegwynn come to mind and I cannot think any mage stronger than those. Maybe Elisande or Azshara come close, Elisande being a Nightborne and Azshara being a Night Elf. Elisande was also empowered by the Nightwell's power. Azshara is pretty unique, as she should be.

It's ok to be based towards a race you like, but sadly Blood Elves are all about the Light and Rangers right now. And some Golems.

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He is listed in the wow official book as Azeroths greatest Sorceror. (although I interpret that as "one of"). but do people seriously not realise that some Legendary characters are more than one class?

Illidan is fel commanding, melee wielding - Sorceror that happens to be a powerful melee combatant too that hunts demons. OR did you not know that Magecraft is his major discipline and all the fel wielding magic is an extension of that.

Sorcerors are not necessarily mages. Otherwise Gul'dan should also be considered a mage because he is a sorceror. Illidan was a mage but he's a DH now.

[Beloren]

1) Why did you push NE into this when the comparison is between Nightborne and Blood Elves? Also I didn't say the Blood Elves forsake their arcane ancestry but it's pretty obvious that it's second nature now compared to the Light. They don't have any notable mage right now, Kael'thas was the last good one and they did him dirty.

2) Human mages are the best mages right now. Jaina, Khadgar, Medivh, Aegwynn come to mind and I cannot think any mage stronger than those. Maybe Elisande or Azshara come close, Elisande being a Nightborne and Azshara being a Night Elf. Elisande was also empowered by the Nightwell's power. Azshara is pretty unique, as she should be.

It's ok to be based towards a race you like, but sadly Blood Elves are all about the Light and Rangers right now. And some Golems.

I missed emphasiing my point. Blizzard are only emphaiszing the light side now, it doesn't mean the arcane has become less prominent or relevant. Wow's not real time, you have to use previous lore to inform current standings.

Just becauseyou see a lot of focus on Liadrin and Sunswron etc, does'nt mean they have somehow become light elves at the expense of the arcane. All the arcane expertise and tradition is still there, but hte Light as grrown and the Blood knights and htose who use it have become more promimnent than they were.

Just htink of it as a side of the high elves that was initially lacking in TBc, but has now gained momentum .. they use to be strong in the light in the WC2/3 days, and were known for being the alliances priests and mages equally (as well as great rangers), but in TBC it focused alot on the arcane, and now it's focusing on the light, blood elves haven't become less arcane adept, they've actually become a lot more powerful i the arcane from all the stuff they've learnt.

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Elisande is as much Night elf as she is Nightborne, she was empowered by the Nightwell as a Night elf, and her power increase and notoriety rose as a night elf, she also became Grand Magistrix as a Night elf, but Queen Azshara can be viewed as a Night elf or a naga, Illidan as a Night elf or a half demon, half night elf - i just lump them all as night elves, because that's the part of the lore they're from when I'm in a hurry, rather than split htem up into moon elves, star elves astro elves, water elves , demon elves, light elves, usn elves void elves, blood elves, fire elves, undead elves, vampire elves ghost elves etc etc etc..., and I can keep add other elves to it.

Humans really only have Jaina and Khadgar- yes Aegwyn and Medivh are very powerful, but it was bestowed upon them.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

Illidan is no longer on Azeroth and is definitely not a Mage.

Illidan is 100% a mage. Do yourself a favor and read war of the ancients. Or rather 50% since he's also a demon hunter

[TigTone]

Ogre mages are the master race

[Kufell]

In terms of overall magical capability, I would say they're probably fairly even on average. But if I were to fathom a guess in regards to magic when applied to combat, I would imagine the Blood Elves would come out on top due to years more experience of applying magic the battlefield. Nightborne strike me as having applied their knowledge of the arcane differently to those in the outside world, learning more about applying their knowledge to things like agriculture and general improvement of life due to their having no need to defend themselves all those thousands of years secluded.

Granted, that's just the impression I got and not based upon any further reading into BElf/NBElf lore.

[Razion]

Kael'thas' strongest feat is probably destroying a corrupted Sunwell - although he did this with help. Elisande's strongest feat is probably erecting the shield of Suramar that protected it from the Sundering, which held fast for 10,000 years - though she had the aid of the Nightwell. Individually she has held entire armies in place with her own time magic.

[Amaterasu65]

I missed emphasiing my point. Blizzard are only emphaiszing the light side now, it doesn't mean the arcane has become less prominent or relevant. Wow's not real time, you have to use previous lore to inform current standings.

Just becauseyou see a lot of focus on Liadrin and Sunswron etc, does'nt mean they have somehow become light elves at the expense of the arcane. All the arcane expertise and tradition is still there, but hte Light as grrown and the Blood knights and htose who use it have become more promimnent than they were.

Just htink of it as a side of the high elves that was initially lacking in TBc, but has now gained momentum .. they use to be strong in the light in the WC2/3 days, and were known for being the alliances priests and mages equally (as well as great rangers), but in TBC it focused alot on the arcane, and now it's focusing on the light, blood elves haven't become less arcane adept, they've actually become a lot more powerful i the arcane from all the stuff they've learnt.

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Elisande is as much Night elf as she is Nightborne, she was empowered by the Nightwell as a Night elf, and her power increase and notoriety rose as a night elf, she also became Grand Magistrix as a Night elf, but Queen Azshara can be viewed as a Night elf or a naga, Illidan as a Night elf or a half demon, half night elf - i just lump them all as night elves, because that's the part of the lore they're from when I'm in a hurry, rather than split htem up into moon elves, star elves astro elves, water elves , demon elves, light elves, usn elves void elves, blood elves, fire elves, undead elves, vampire elves ghost elves etc etc etc..., and I can keep add other elves to it.

Humans really only have Jaina and Khadgar- yes Aegwyn and Medivh are very powerful, but it was bestowed upon them.

I think most mages draw a big chunk of their power from other sources, whether it's a staff/artifact, a magical well or other mages. Most iconic mages have been empowered by at least one of these sources.

I also agree that the magical/arcane mastery side of the Blood Elves still exists in their society, the Magisters are after all one of the most elite and political groups in Silvermoon. I don't really wanna discard their past because of their current depiction in game which is mostly Light-focused, but I also have to say that they didn't bother expanding their magical side much either. Rangers and Blood Knights is the main focus, probably because the two current most prominent BE are representing these 2 groups. Things were better when Kael'thas were around. Excluding him, only Rommath and Aethas are notable BE mages, but they haven't done much. The latter was even comically trapped by a harpy, was stripped naked and had to be saved.

Meanwhile, the prominent human mages like Jaina and Khadgar are continuously shown to perform great magical acts and even make 10k year old mages like Thalyssra fear to fight them. That said, the Nightborne society kept the arcane as their main focus, partly because the Nightwell sustained them for thousands of years under a magic bubble so they didn't have much of a choice to explore other paths as other races did, partly because the Highborne was a caste of elite mages and sorcerers who liked to keep the pre-Sundering culture around a magical font of power, and partly because they managed to save Suramar and its libraries, which hold ancient arcane secrets.

So even though comparing the notable human mages to the notable BE and NE/NB ones I come to the conclusion that humans are stronger, comparing their societies would lead to a different answer. If we exclude all the lore characters and talk about societies and natural affinity, the elves are first, with the original Night Elves and the current Nightborne being on top.

[Pheraz]

Azshara is the strongest mage on Azeroth and she is a night elf *insert mind blown gif*

[Beloren]

Azshara is the strongest mage on Azeroth and she is a night elf *insert mind blown gif*

Yes she is night elves are a powerful arcane using race, the thing some of their biggest fans either don't realise or are not communicating properly, is that their largest current society, the Darnassians, isn't an arcane society.

I have conceded in past arguments that night elves are naturally gifted arcane wise, probably moreso than we are (since they never devolved and were constantly connected and surrounded by the Well of Eternity and Moonwells) and I'm not just thinking of Darnassians, but Shen'dralars, Monguards and others - however the main alliance group (the one you play hunters, druids, rogues, priest, warriors), that we call the Darnassians, arcane isn't major in that society. Only the Highborne group their use it, and they're small group (even with new recruits, they can't be more than about 1,000 at your most optimistic estimates - compare that to druids, priests and others, who there'd be lots more of. So relatively we don't think of them in terms of arcane.

Only those who are more focused on pre-sundering days and the Shen'dralar group/Moonguard seem to remember it a lot, but tbh, it doesn't mean much, except if you play a night elf mage, you're just confident that you're in your heritage.

Those night elf mages, especially the shen'dralar would be very talented, probably a high concentration of talent for the arcane, cos I heard they were picking night elves with great arcane talent and training them as mages, adding them to their order - similar to how Azshara grew the caste in some accounts. But the rest of the night elves won't be , they're probably likely to attack arcane wielders or get all defensive. I had a funny thought of night elves getting nervous whenever they saw arcane being wielded.

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But what they forget is that they are WAY behind us in terms of arcane developments in society , arcane cohesion, acceptance, proliferation and all that stuff.

While I concede that they can gain a very high standard back, especially with the shen'drlaar at the helm, I won't believe it until I see it. With the Darnassians issues with the aracne, it's impossible to say without development from blizzard that the Highborne would build new cities and bring back the level of advancement we see in Suramaror Silvermoon to the Darnassians.

I just don't bleieve it will happen, not soon anyway, what exists in Suramar takes a long time to happen , even if you have people with the knowledge. and unless you also tell the story of how they acclimatise, it's not going to happen - which is what i've tried arguing with the night elf fans.

Now if blizzard wrote the Highborne to go to Eldre'thalas and re-establish their city and society as their own separate city kingdom, that's a totally different story, then all they needd to do is repair it, within themselves they are already a fully cohesive, arcane group closer to the nightborne, though it would be a transition period for some of their new recruits - but again that would take direct development from blizz to make happen, and I just won't believe it until it does, because I suspect blizzard has other plans and the Highborne are better off going to the broken isles and working with the Nightborne.

[Vrinara]

People should really stick with the title. This is nightborne mages vs Blood Elf Mages. At one point I considered Nightborne to be stronger, However, in this situation it would depend. Both races no longer really have a power source, at least not one like it use to be. I wanna say Blood elves since if you look at many of their leaders, they were mages or rangers. That and I am pretty sure the blood elves, High elves, Whatever the fuck you wanna call them, they are all the same race, taught humans how to wield magic. I am not saying the Nightborne aren't great Mages. I have a nightborne mage. But I would think Blood elves would be a bit stronger.

[Beloren]

Kael'thas' strongest feat is probably destroying a corrupted Sunwell - although he did this with help. Elisande's strongest feat is probably erecting the shield of Suramar that protected it from the Sundering, which held fast for 10,000 years - though she had the aid of the Nightwell. Individually she has held entire armies in place with her own time magic.

That's the thing, we have to assume that there is much more we don't know. If the story mainly foucses on the current timeline and the actions of organisations like Dalaran and the Council of Tirisfal rather than look into Silvermoon or the last 7,000 years of our history and our momentous achievements, then we are not going to look that great.

same goes for the kaldorei and all their stunning achievements in the pre-sundering era, all we really hear fro that is that it was Azeroths greatest civilziation ever, full of magical wonder the likes that have never been seen since. They did incredible things, full stop. Such as? Not told. This allows them to of be a lot more creative when and if they should ever visit htat era, which I'm sure we'll see stunning things.

When you read in between the lines, establishing the Sunwell, and erecting Silvermoon, Sunwlel Plateau would be incredible magical feats, likes of mages like Darth'remar would have spear headed, it's no easy thing, they made the sunwell from just 1 vial, and look at how powerful it is, then the Ban'dinoriel to magically shield a much larger area than Suramar (yes I know it's a different kind of shielding). Who else used magic to bathe the entire lands in an eternal spring - that's druid/shaman levels of envy.

Likely some powerful mage spear headed these great feats, if we had a name, we would be counting them. But we are not the focus of the stories they tell. Humans are. We are just described as being greati n the arcane and given examples,b ut our mages are seldom used, the same witht he night elves (I remember their fans complaining that Highborne should have been used to start you off on your journey to Azshara, meet the Ilildari out of the Warden vault and discover the magical encryption that lead to Suramar, but khadgar was used in all 3 of these.. a human.

And the Nightborne will realise this soon enough, as the encounter with Jaina showed.. i can't believe how weak Thalyssra was, she all but admitted in the rescue of Talanji that she can't confront Jaina. From that point on I have wanted Elisande to return and be Nightborne leader.. but only because of how blizzard handled Thalyssra.

[Moonrage]

It varies based on individual. The two strongest mages on azeroth currently are both human. No race is inherintly great at magic.

Queen Azshara happens to be a Naga.

[Beloren]

People should really stick with the title. This is nightborne mages vs Blood Elf Mages. At one point I considered Nightborne to be stronger, However, in this situation it would depend. Both races no longer really have a power source, at least not one like it use to be. I wanna say Blood elves since if you look at many of their leaders, they were mages or rangers. That and I am pretty sure the blood elves, High elves, Whatever the fuck you wanna call them, they are all the same race, taught humans how to wield magic. I am not saying the Nightborne aren't great Mages. I have a nightborne mage. But I would think Blood elves would be a bit stronger.

Nightborne don't have a power source well anymore. Blood elves can command more power overall, but nightborne are more advanced, more knowledgeable and more experienced with the arcane on average.

Blood elf can learn everything they know though, and when they do, I'd bet on the blood elf any day.