Lorekeeper lore Q&A steve danuser

[Piamonte]

http://lorekeeper.net/en/maldraxxus-...tpZkCPG6NE1_JA

[Nagawithlegs]

Just gonna cherry pick what I think are the most relevant questions here for the lore forums:

Death in Shadowlands

What happens when you die in the Shadowlands?

The answer to that depends a little bit on what your nature is as a being. As we’ve seen before in the Legion expansion, where if demons came to Azeroth and died on Azeroth, they would go back to the Twisting Nether. Because that is the realm they are from… That same kind of rule applies to beings that are of Death magic. If a Kyrian for example, was on Azeroth and was killed, their essence would go back to the Shadowlands and be reformed there.

Mortal souls are different. Mortal souls begin in the mortal plane: Azeroth, other worlds etc. And when they die, that soul with all its anima that it’s built up in life, crosses over into the Shadowlands. And in the Shadowlands, the threat to your existence is real. If everything goes the way it’s supposed to go, you should be able to exist for eternity; either enjoy or endure whatever afterlife you are a part of. But if something happens to your soul there, if something destroys it, that soul is gone. There is no afterlife beyond Shadowlands. That’s why stakes are real in these battles, in these conflicts. The threat the Jailer poses to the Shadowlands and the other realms beyond it is very real and it has high stakes.

tl;dr If you die in the Shadowlands you are dead forever.

Light Afterlife + Bridenbrad

The principal powers in Cosmology, do they also go to the Shadowlands? Or do they go back to their own place? Like the Burning Crusade goes to Twisting Nether, where would a Naaru go?

So that same rule that we established in Legion for a being of an influence goes back if it’s killed in the mortal realm or some other realm, it goes back to it’s home realm, it’s home plane. That’s true for demons and that’s true for other forces as well.

So if Naarus are fighting in the mortal realm for example, a Naaru is struck down; its essence would go back to the realm of Light and would reconstitute there. Now there are exceptions to that rule… If a significantly powerful force intervenes in such a way, it can throw that process off, it can either delay it or subvert it in some way. But it takes a significant influence for that to happen; it’s not something that casually happens.

For example people have talked about Bridenbrad, the hero who died in Northrend. We saw the Light intervene to save him and pull him away. That’s the case of one of the forces having a direct tie to a character and going out of its way to kind of yank it out of the normal cycle a little bit and do something different with it.

Those cases are the exception rather than the rule. So if you destroyed a being of the Light, it would go back to the realm of Light and to really destroy it, you would have to go to the realm of Light and destroy it there.

tl;dr Bridenbrad got yoinked by the Light but it doesn't always happen. There IS a Light afterlife that isn't in the Shadowlands.


"Nice" Afterlives

Taking into consideration the fact that the Shadowlands isn’t in its best condition right now, are there any Shadowlands realms where it doesn’t feel like you are basically requested to have an eternity of servitude? It feels pretty rough that, like you know you work hard, you retire, you die, you get drafted again…

It is true that the realms we’re visiting are the core to the functioning of how the Shadowlands works as a Cosmic force in the universe. There is a responsibility there. Much is asked of the souls that go to Bastion. Again, we wanted to play with that, that notion of visually looking at it and seeing this kind of idyllic paradise, but they have a huge responsibility placed on their shoulders. Maldraxxus has a huge responsibility. Revendreth is all about taking these souls that have potential to either do something great or to be lost to darkness, and trying to save them. And Ardenweald takes care of these very important nature spirits that need to go back into the cycle and preserve that. So all of these realms have very important duties that they have to accomplish in order for the Shadowlands and realms beyond to function. But we have said that the Shadowlands is a place of infinite afterlives, and I certainly picture that there are places that are free of obligation, places that could just be an idyllic paradise for someone or a place of just unending punishment and torment, because they were just that bad, or just needed to endure something to pay them back for what happened in life… Any of those possibilities that you can imagine exists somewhere in the Shadowlands.

That’s why when we talk about certain characters and you try to pick which afterlife they would go to, keep in mind that there are limitless other places they might end up within Shadowlands. Maybe we’ll get peeks into some of those, maybe we won’t. But any of those characters that you know and care about can exist somewhere in this realm. And when it’s someone you like and care about, you hope they’re in a happy place. You know, like Durotan: If everything went great for him, he’s probably in this endless hunting ground where he has his wolves around him and he can just go out there, he doesn’t have to worry about any dark forces wrecking his world. He can just enjoy that forever… And you know what, maybe Draka can someday fulfill her obligations and join him there. Who knows? We’ll see…

tl;dr they picked afterlives with problems because they are more important than happy heavens (which do exist in lore but don't make for good zones)

Why Draka?

What made you decide on having Draka as one of the main characters of Maldraxxus? Why Draka?

When we were conceiving Shadowlands, thinking about the zones and the stories we want to tell, the themes that we want to explore with the storyline, we knew that we had a vast number of characters to draw on who had died and gone to the Shadowlands; so we didn’t have any shortage of possible characters. So we kind of went through a process where we wanted some that felt like “Oh, yeah. It’s natural that this character would appear!”

For someone like Uther, going to Bastion was a natural fit; someone who had lived a life of service, who had been at the forefront of the Warcraft III storyline and just really had carried on as this kind of pillar of Azeroth, someone that characters in the world still think about and relate to.

But we also wanted to choose some characters that didn’t seem like obvious fits; characters that felt a little either off the beaten path or that would have to make you think about it and go through the mental exercise of figuring out how they would fit there.

We talked about lots of different options and really settled on Draka as being someone who is interesting, who is integral to the true line of the story of Warcraft, going from Draenor to Azeroth, that story of the orcs; she’s a big part of that… But she also wasn’t someone that we had seen a ton about or had gotten to explore. She was a character that both had the right ingredients for someone to go to Maldraxxus and also had some kind of blank slate characteristics about her that we could fill in through this storyline. So it was just a really interesting opportunity to take someone who had forged themselves, started off facing challenges and become a great warrior to give her another chance to do the same thing in this afterlife that is all about strength, contention and improving yourself.

tl;dr they needed an orc (imo probably because this is an Alliance expansion)

[Varodoc]

So Old Gods are still alive then, they are just regenerating in the Void. Maybe N'Zoth might be dead dead simply because he died in Ny'alotha and not strictly on the mortal plane of Azeroth, but the other Old Gods will definitely return in the future. Blizzard will need raid bosses for the Void Lords expansion, after all.

Perhaps this is what Alleria meant when she said "Despite N'Zoth's defeat, the whispers have worsened and new voices have joined the chorus". Maybe the previously "deceased" Old Gods have finally returned to the Void realm, where they will be regenerated and ready to return.

So that same rule that we established in Legion for a being of an influence goes back if it’s killed in the mortal realm or some other realm, it goes back to it’s home realm, it’s home plane. That’s true for demons and that’s true for other forces as well.

[Devonitar]

Then I don't get how titans play in all this. Are they from Orderlands? If so, then how come they have to hatch from the mortal universe's planets?

[Aucald]

Then I don't get how titans play in all this. Are they from Orderlands? If so, then how come they have to hatch from the mortal universe's planets?

Titans are creatures of the physical universe - although we don't really know how a Titan's soul is handled if it should somehow die in the normal course of things.

[Lady Atia]

Interesting bit about the AU souls - quoting myself from the other thread:

Eh, for me it sounds more like that AU souls basically seem to merge with the prime soul - each soul is a string, all strings make a rope - the rope is the character. Or in other words, MU Draka and AU Draka are strings, while Maldraxxus Draka is the rope.

[Piamonte]

Titans are creatures of the physical universe - although we don't really know how a Titan's soul is handled if it should somehow die in the normal course of things.

we dont know what titans really are, they could easily come from an arcane dimension and then come to the mortal plane to find a sun and grow.

[Maljinwo]

So the alternate Garrosh where he was an actual good leader and respected gets fucked and is sent to Revendreth because of our Garrosh? lol

[Xilurm]

So, when AU Draka dies she will just merge with the Draka that's in the Shadowlands which was MU Draka?

[Arrashi]

Interesting bit about the AU souls - quoting myself from the other thread:

Which doesn't make sense since we see garrosh as sinner yet we "know" that many AU garroshes were saints.

Its just yet another "don't count dem blades of grass".

[Aleksej89]

Blizzard is try-harding too much to create new lore for shadowlands and a lot of the stuff they churned out is convoluted (and sometimes contradictory) gibberish.

I will wait and see but so far much of the shadowlands story seems like desperate fan-fiction.

[Aucald]

we dont know what titans really are, they could easily come from an arcane dimension and then come to the mortal plane to find a sun and grow.

Chronicle Vol. 1 describes them as colossal godlike beings made up of the primordial matter from which the very universe was born" and explicitly states their origins as "born from world-souls, spirits who are formed within the fiery cores of a small number of worlds and who slumber for ages, suffusing the planets they inhabit with Spirit energy before finally awakening." So no, they don't seem to come from another dimension - rather, they are formed within select planets more or less naturally, gestating for eons before they awaken into their true Titan form.

[Combatbutler]

Chronicle Vol. 1 describes them as colossal godlike beings made up of the primordial matter from which the very universe was born" and explicitly states their origins as "born from world-souls, spirits who are formed within the fiery cores of a small number of worlds and who slumber for ages, suffusing the planets they inhabit with Spirit energy before finally awakening." So no, they don't seem to come from another dimension - rather, they are formed within select planets more or less naturally, gestating for eons before they awaken into their true Titan form.

How can you be certain of titan origin, considering it is all written in their personal view, so they can't know with certainty how they came to be.

[Aucald]

How can you be certain of titan origin, considering it is all written in their personal view, so they can't know with certainty how they came to be.

Aman'thul was the first and oldest of Titans, and before there was even a Pantheon he's stated to have "discovered other nascent world-souls and lovingly nurtured them until they awoke and joined him in his travels." So he probably knows all about Titan formation and the nature of Titanic world-souls, regardless of "perspective." Beyond that, well we'd both be just second-guessing the Titan whose purview is time itself.

[Arrashi]

How can you be certain of titan origin, considering it is all written in their personal view, so they can't know with certainty how they came to be.

Maybe one of them was still wearing eggshell after hatching and thats how they found out.

[Piamonte]

Chronicle Vol. 1 describes them as colossal godlike beings made up of the primordial matter from which the very universe was born" and explicitly states their origins as "born from world-souls, spirits who are formed within the fiery cores of a small number of worlds and who slumber for ages, suffusing the planets they inhabit with Spirit energy before finally awakening." So no, they don't seem to come from another dimension - rather, they are formed within select planets more or less naturally, gestating for eons before they awaken into their true Titan form.

i meant before they become world soulds, when they are sparks of energy looking for a sun.

[Arrashi]

Aman'thul was the first and oldest of Titans, and before there was even a Pantheon he's stated to have "discovered other nascent world-souls and lovingly nurtured them until they awoke and joined him in his travels." So he probably knows all about Titan formation and the nature of Titanic world-souls, regardless of "perspective." Beyond that, well we'd both be just second-guessing the Titan whose purview is time itself.

Plot twist - titans are just side effect of failed experiment performed by ancient mudmugeans.

[Combatbutler]

Aman'thul was the first and oldest of Titans, and before there was even a Pantheon he's stated to have "discovered other nascent world-souls and lovingly nurtured them until they awoke and joined him in his travels." So he probably knows all about Titan formation and the nature of Titanic world-souls, regardless of "perspective." Beyond that, well we'd both be just second-guessing the Titan whose purview is time itself.

Yet he does not know his origin, it is speculation how he got into the world, if he was put there, if he was created somewhere etc. the titans merely go around finding others of their kind.

Anything that predates the titans is just baseless fluff now.

[ONCHEhap]

Blizzard is try-harding too much to create new lore for shadowlands and a lot of the stuff they churned out is convoluted (and sometimes contradictory) gibberish.

I will wait and see but so far much of the shadowlands story seems like desperate fan-fiction.

That's the problem with the current WoW writing team and Danuser especially. They have quite a few ego problems and feel like they can do better in every way than those who came before them. So they try to make up stuff out of nowhere without using previously established lore as a support,and it often ends up in quite a mess

[Aucald]

Yet he does not know his origin, it is speculation how he got into the world, if he was put there, if he was created somewhere etc. the titans merely go around finding others of their kind.

Given his ability to peer back into into time to a point before the physical universe even existed, I would say he probably does know his own origins - he relates the creation of reality from the primordial conflict between Light and Void.