Proof, that players must "complain" and "whine" whenever Blizzard make fishy moves.

[Harbour]

This is the proof that we can help Blizzard understand what ideas are clearly bad, and thus help them to make the game better.



Without "whiners" today on reddit, wowhead, mmo-champion and twitter we would have end up with this dumb pointless mechanic of Covenant use restriction.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Not every complaint deserves whining about.

[Lucetia]

This is the proof that we can help Blizzard understand what ideas are clearly bad, and thus help them to make the game better.

Without "whiners" today on reddit, wowhead, mmo-champion and twitter we would have end up with this dumb pointless mechanic of Covenant use restriction.

That is not always the case and that doesn't mean that was the deciding factor. It is better for them to put it in the post for better PR. For all we know it was just a week of testing to see how players interacted on the beta. Just like not everything deserves people complaining about.

[schwarzkopf]

This is the proof that we can help Blizzard understand what ideas are clearly bad

Problem is - the majority of the time the vocal minority convince Blizzard to do something which is clearly bad.

If Blizzard reverted to the original goal from Vanilla of just designing interesting games, and not worry so much about absolute perfect homogenisation that some players want - the game would be far more fun.

[Lucetia]

If Blizzard reverted to the original goal from Vanilla of just designing interesting games, and not worry so much about absolute perfect homogenisation that some players want - the game would be far more fun.

Sure, let's just stay stuck in the era of Classic. That would eventually turn a lot of players off. Yes, you can "but Classic is popular!" it will still get old and stale of doing the same thing. Homogenizing classes to some points helps push the game otherwise we would have the hybrid tax and everything which would be bad for the game in the end.

But yeah, the style of Classic is so perfect we already have people going "When will TBC launch?" "When will Wrath launch" which steered away from the practices in Classic. One (yes one, not all) of the main reasons people miss Classic as much as they do is because they can't revisit a lot of that content like they can the other expansions.

[Daedius]

Not every complaint deserves whining about.

Paying customers are entitled to complain over whatever they want... it depends on the magnitude of said complaint by the amount of those complaining...

[Toybox]

Paying customers are entitled to complain over whatever they want... it depends on the magnitude of said complaint by the amount of those complaining...

& obviously their experience with what they're complaining about. As someone who doesn't play arena at a high or even a medium level, any comment I have on arena balance/rewards should probably be ignored.

[Jastall]

He said they were on the fence about it already. If Blizzard is dead set on a system (see: power tied to Covenants), it would take a truly epic, RealID-tier of complaints to get them to change it before release.

Personally I'm glad they changed their mind still. Lorewise it made dodgy sense at best and gameplay wise I'm really, really not a fan of locking abilities by content. I tolerate it for PvP talents because PvP might as well be its own game now, but being able to use Condemn and Door of Shadows in Shadowlands but having it vanish elsewhere would just feel off for no real gain.

[Icelin]

I didn't get to read entirely too much into this tbh. I was going to address it and then controversy got shoved down my throat. Then it was time to go.

Anyways, I was pretty indifferent about this when I took a quick glance at it. I just didn't really understand where they were coming from with this decision. I mean imagine Legion artifact skills/spells we unlocked and only being able to use them in Legion zones. I just thought it seemed a bit bizarre.

The thing I do understand and maybe this is where they were coming from. Is PvP. I know people were hardly interested in PvP in 8.3 because of corruption...

[Feral Druid ist Op]

& obviously their experience with what they're complaining about. As someone who doesn't play arena at a high or even a medium level, any comment I have on arena balance/rewards should probably be ignored.

but the locked for 7 days conduit bullshit affected everyone, it affeced me as a WR30 raider the same way it affeced a WR 7000 raider who want to play more than 1 spec and dont gimp hes dps by 30% the casual raider should be heared too more voices = bigger chance for changes

[schwarzkopf]

Sure, let's just stay stuck in the era of Classic.

I think that would be a bad idea.

That would eventually turn a lot of players off. Yes, you can "but Classic is popular!"

I think it is terrible.

Homogenizing classes to some points helps push the game otherwise we would have the hybrid tax and everything which would be bad for the game in the end.

Hybrid tax isn't great, but I do remember the days when there was a point in bringing my mage to a fight that didn't involve vending machine duty.

No-one even needs me to portal any more, used to have the best CC in game, now the worst. The same issue has occurred with other classes too - everyone gets to do everything ... so obviously the only reason now is the spec with the highest sims for the week.

[Krimzin]

Player base has very little to do with it directly.
Most changes come via Influencers.
If you have a high level influencer who can argue for a change that makes sense, then you are more likely to see it happen.
Players have been bitching for years about a lot of things, but what you say has to carry weight.
Its why all companies now, use influencers with huge player followers when they debut new shit.
Look at Nvidia last month, their main debut was to a list of the top influencers.

So your premise is incorrect. Players whining and complaining does nothing.

[Revamp Man]

& obviously their experience with what they're complaining about. As someone who doesn't play arena at a high or even a medium level, any comment I have on arena balance/rewards should probably be ignored.

blizzard doesnt care though

i mean m+ gear locking had every player who actually did make multiple sets saying it was a bad idea while little jimmy in a +5 championed it

forced personal loot was an idiotic change when ML already required a guild group but Timmy complained about not getting his BiS trinket from the progression boss even though he died 30 seconds into the fight and came in on attempt 35 complaining he was ninjad and never got loot because he was a trial even though he actually got 4 upgrades from farm bosses.

[Stricks]

Whining about the need to whine is a bit strange. Just say your peace with the actual stuff Blizz comes out with. No need to have an "I told you so" post to justify your disagreement.

Blizzard constantly asks for feedback so I mean I really don't know what your point is since you are on the same page as Blizzard apparently...

[ShiyoKozuki]

Problem is - the majority of the time the vocal minority convince Blizzard to do something which is clearly bad.

If Blizzard reverted to the original goal from Vanilla of just designing interesting games, and not worry so much about absolute perfect homogenisation that some players want - the game would be far more fun.

This assuming there's this big majority of players that simply never, ever, ever talk or give feedback. Why assume things? That's bad.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Not every complaint deserves whining about.

Are you implying that the players don't know best and Blizz shouldn't cater to every single time someone makes a whine thread on Reddit!?

Sarcasm aside, yeah it's fine to call Blizz out on stuff when it's obviously silly like this. But players tend more often than not to whine about things that either are actually good, or things that Blizz will not change.

[A Chozo]

WoW players are notorious for buying and playing the game even when they hate it.

So yes, makes sense that they need to throw a tantrum to show the devs when they dislike something.

[Eazy]

Too bad the idea of Covenant talent-like swapping won't come alive.

[Baneto]

Absolutely, being vocal about something you dont like or agree with is the right thing.

This revert shows they are not completely blind to the community which is nice.

[Codah]

Whining is the only reason they changed it in the first place.