McConnell the Father of Poverty; US Poor Grows by 6 Million

[Bodakane]

Okay then what is the reason for why poor people can't generate a decent income? Let me guess "evil group X is holding me down!".

You really bought into the "land of opportunity" bullshit.

There's a reason most wealthy people were born into it.

[Felya]

I mean I'm the one arguing that outsourcing low skilled labor is a race to the bottom... so thank you for arguing my point now?

Yes, your definition of low skilled labour, is different from the rest of the world, because people like you, consider what the rest of the world is beating us at... hyper specialization... In places we outsource, invested in their education, instead of bitching it’s too expensive and that the curriculum is against the western world. They teach development instead...

I will repeat, a low skilled person, right out of high school in Poland, China and India, has more marketable skills than US graduates. The reason for that, is because of people who bitch about hyper specialization...

[omerome]

Okay then what is the reason for why poor people can't generate a decent income? Let me guess "evil group X is holding me down!".

It's literally because they are not being paid a fair wage.

[JohnBrown1917]

People like Bezos clearly just work 100.000.000 times as hard as your average person, duh.

[Howel]

Eventually the working poor in western countries will have their life styles match those of the third world as they become increasingly less necessary to society.

Which is also what happens if you abandon global trade entirely. Unless you think, that the current products, and subproducts in products, getting an increased labour cost of 6,5-14 dollars an hour, will not spike prices accordingly, leaving those jobs to only subside on a small amount of their current privilige of excess products. Not to the same extend, but that's where the second factor comes in; you've abandoned global trade, meaning the factories and businesses that were adding to your export/import balance because they were producing in excess to your own consumption and hence sold globally, gets hit. Meaning they'll have to downsize their job capacity or wages.

Like, I know it seems simple, that if we just abandon the global market, and make everything internal, it'll solve the problems, but ultimately, it only reinforces it more. It makes the globalization unbalance, an internal unbalance. See the industrial age, where global trade was very, very limited, and how there could be almost a 100 year difference in how places in your country looked like. Some still looked like medieval society out in the farmlands and small towns, as bustling modern cities grew up in other places.

It is a temporary solution, with short term gains, for long term losses. Which don't get it wrong, doesn't mean that one should try and protect your current industries, from being taken over by cheaper products, but a total cutoff will only go to showcase what poverty is really like, and will equally also take down currently functional and productive industries, because you have no lead to sell off, but to yourself, but you've removed yourself from the market of other riches.

[Krakan]

For how long will we have cheap labor, make goods affordable with our stagnant salaries? That’s the fun thing... our salaries, do not match the whole wealth of the country. It’s why we can’t afford products made in US... it’s not that we are swimming in money, because of how cheap all the products are. You think if people got paid more, they would choose to shop at Walmart?

Also, the helping the poor is political, since being poor is inherently not someone generating much revenue. Now, explain to me, why US doesn’t take care of it’s poor, as well as China? or do you think you made another mistake?

Well it will sound naive but I believe most people want to help others...granted only in so far as it doesn't overly inconvince them.

Your really trying to beg the question though of why is it that people ask in their own self interest rather then for the betterment of others consistently. I would say it's a flaw of humanity in general.

What mistake do you believe I've made so far if I might ask?

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For how long will we have cheap labor, make goods affordable with our stagnant salaries? That’s the fun thing... our salaries, do not match the whole wealth of the country. It’s why we can’t afford products made in US... it’s not that we are swimming in money, because of how cheap all the products are. You think if people got paid more, they would choose to shop at Walmart?

Also, the helping the poor is political, since being poor is inherently not someone generating much revenue. Now, explain to me, why US doesn’t take care of it’s poor, as well as China? or do you think you made another mistake?

Well it will sound naive but I believe most people want to help others...granted only in so far as it doesn't overly inconvince them.

Your really trying to beg the question though of why is it that people ask in their own self interest rather then for the betterment of others consistently. I would say it's a flaw of humanity in general.

What mistake do you believe I've made so far if I might ask?

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Yes, your definition of low skilled labour, is different from the rest of the world, because people like you, consider what the rest of the world is beating us at... hyper specialization... In places we outsource, invested in their education, instead of bitching it’s too expensive and that the curriculum is against the western world. They teach development instead...

I will repeat, a low skilled person, right out of high school in Poland, China and India, has more marketable skills than US graduates. The reason for that, is because of people who bitch about hyper specialization...

I disagree I would argue it comes down to scale as well. I believe people have inherently different abilities. I don't really see people who are capable of skilled labor not taking up apprenticeships in the states.

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Which is also what happens if you abandon global trade entirely. Unless you think, that the current products, and subproducts in products, getting an increased labour cost of 6,5-14 dollars an hour, will not spike prices accordingly, leaving those jobs to only subside on a small amount of their current privilige of excess products. Not to the same extend, but that's where the second factor comes in; you've abandoned global trade, meaning the factories and businesses that were adding to your export/import balance because they were producing in excess to your own consumption and hence sold globally, gets hit. Meaning they'll have to downsize their job capacity or wages.

Like, I know it seems simple, that if we just abandon the global market, and make everything internal, it'll solve the problems, but ultimately, it only reinforces it more. It makes the globalization unbalance, an internal unbalance. See the industrial age, where global trade was very, very limited, and how there could be almost a 100 year difference in how places in your country looked like. Some still looked like medieval society out in the farmlands and small towns, as bustling modern cities grew up in other places.

It is a temporary solution, with short term gains, for long term losses. Which don't get it wrong, doesn't mean that one should try and protect your current industries, from being taken over by cheaper products, but a total cutoff will only go to showcase what poverty is really like, and will equally also take down currently functional and productive industries, because you have no lead to sell off, but to yourself, but you've removed yourself from the market of other riches.

It isn't a magic bullet by any means. I would argue that long term it would lead to cheaper prices and more readily accessible necessities like food and housing but I am not at ignorant of the price that comes at. Luxury items like phones,vehicles, more exotic food would steeply increase in price.

I don't see the concept of isolation as perfect in fact I cam plainly see the flaws in it. I just don't really see how you can persevere a more "fair" system like we have with globalization.

[Howel]

It isn't a magic bullet by any means. I would argue that long term it would lead to cheaper prices and more readily accessible necessities like food and housing but I am not at ignorant of the price that comes at. Luxury items like phones,vehicles, more exotic food would steeply increase in price.

I don't see the concept of isolation as perfect in fact I cam plainly see the flaws in it. I just don't really see how you can persevere a more "fair" system like we have with globalization.

Well, having rich people and companies pay, even nominal tax rates, would certainly help a lot of countries. That and a focus, on not having wealth sucked up by giant internal companies; force them to pay in the area that they make that money.

Like the west has a lot of problems, partly globalization, but also a lot of internal problems produced by giants chains, that every penny spend on a chain store in your local area, sees next to nothing returned into that local economy outside of the wages you pay the people there, but instead hundreds of miles away in rich areas of stock holders and company owners. Our problems could be alleviated a fair bit, by reducing this system, because it is basically the problem of globalization in reverse and internally within a country.

That and have the global trade that is being done by western countries, returned on the nominal tax rate, not the repatriation at half or quarter price that they just have to wait for to happen every other to five years.

[PC2]

It's literally because they are not being paid a fair wage.

No that is a moralization and it's your personal emotional feeling that is not objectively true. In order for that claim to be rigorous you would have to give me a methodology for determining what is a "fair" or unfair wage quantity that has an objective basis.

[Howel]

No that is a moralization and it's your personal emotional feeling that is not objectively true. In order for that claim to be rigorous you would have to give me a methodology for determining what is a "fair" or unfair wage quantity that has an objective basis.

You probably don't wanna look up production rate, household item price inflation, real estate price inflation, general currency inflation, total life household debt and then contrast them to wage increases; because those don't have a lot in common for a growing percentage of the population, pointing towards something being/becoming skewed.

[Krakan]

Well, having rich people and companies pay, even nominal tax rates, would certainly help a lot of countries. That and a focus, on not having wealth sucked up by giant internal companies; force them to pay in the area that they make that money.

Like the west has a lot of problems, partly globalization, but also a lot of internal problems produced by giants chains, that every penny spend on a chain store in your local area, sees next to nothing returned into that local economy outside of the wages you pay the people there, but instead hundreds of miles away in rich areas of stock holders and company owners. Our problems could be alleviated a fair bit, by reducing this system, because it is basically the problem of globalization in reverse and internally within a country.

That and have the global trade that is being done by western countries, returned on the nominal tax rate, not the repatriation at half or quarter price that they just have to wait for to happen every other to five years.

I agree and there isn't a black and white answer for this. I think focusing on the market is the easiest of a lot problems that need to be tackled. I think trying to reign in the rich once they are allowed to get out of control has been proven in history to be a tremendous under taking. I agree its needed but I think it takes considerable effort and time.

[Adam Jensen]

Mitch McConnell isn't causing poor people to be poor though. Being poor means the person doesn't have the knowledge to generate a decent income and blaming the Republicans for that is called scapegoating.

Get out of here with that judgemental condescending bullshit.

[Howel]

I agree and there isn't a black and white answer for this. I think focusing on the market is the easiest of a lot problems that need to be tackled. I think trying to reign in the rich once they are allowed to get out of control has been proven in history to be a tremendous under taking. I agree its needed but I think it takes considerable effort and time.

It is likely a bit easier and less time consuming, than having to do a complete restructure of your economy (by the market itself, I might add) and have it finds it way to a viable balance, which would need to be done if you abandoned the global market

Albeit, that abandonment would likely make the obviousness of that unfairness a bit more transparent, so that'd likely do at least something against it; but unlikely to a big enough extend. Heck, they might just leave, and you can do nothing against it.

[PC2]

Get out of here with that judgemental condescending bullshit.

I wasn't being judgemental and I wasn't judging poor people. Every person or family tree started out poor and has to build up wealth from a starting point. There's no shame in that, it's simply the reality of evolution and life on Earth.

[Adam Jensen]

I wasn't being judgemental and I wasn't judging poor people. Every person or family tree started out poor and has to build up wealth from a starting point. There's no shame in that, it's simply the reality of evolution and life on Earth.

You were basically saying people are poor because they're too stupid to get wealth.

[jonnysensible]

You were basically saying people are poor because they're too stupid to get wealth.

they havent evolved either??

*maximum over rustle*

[Howel]

I wasn't being judgemental and I wasn't judging poor people. Every person or family tree started out poor and has to build up wealth from a starting point. There's no shame in that, it's simply the reality of evolution and life on Earth.

I am not sure what is worse; that you apparently don't understand that evolution is a whole other system, purely to describe the capacity to pass on genes, through survival, skill and capacity thereof; and that humans and society are far beyond that very system; noticeable by the fact that poor people also get kids, often times disproportionally.
Or that it sounds quite a lot like, let the poor die (not saying that is what you are saying, just that evolution and poverty, tends to have that conflation when spoken off).

[PC2]

You were basically saying people are poor because they're too stupid to get wealth.

No I was talking about knowledge and not stupidity, they're not the same thing. For example toddlers always lack important knowledge but that doesn't mean they're inherently stupid, it just means they need to develop and learn more about how everything works.

[XDurionX]

Plenty of targeted measures still work. Like tariffs on foreign goods (which neither cause hyperinflation nor throw economies into chaos).

Globalism proceeding means everyone in US ending up lower as labor and service prices equalize.

"Headstart" bonus isn't going to last forever.

Competition and lowest possible price is not the end in itself; economies can work as long as goods produced are affordable.

Tariffs aren't a one way street and just leads to an economic escalation in which everyone loses but the ones not participating. So no, tariffs don't work. Never have, never will.

[TigTone]

People like Bezos clearly just work 100.000.000 times as hard as your average person, duh.

They are super human and rest of us are just inferior sub humans clearly. /eye roll

The glorification of rich people is disgusting.

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No I was talking about knowledge and not stupidity, they're not the same thing. For example toddlers always lack important knowledge but that doesn't mean they're inherently stupid, it just means they need to develop and learn more about how everything works.

No one needs to be a billionaire period. That much resources and wealth being hoarded doesn’t benefit humanity.

Our species is smart and very fucking stupid for letting the greedy of us rule us.

[JohnBrown1917]

Get out of here with that judgemental condescending bullshit.

people like this are a waste of time to argue with, they all probably just got lucky with them being suported by rich mommy or daddy and thus are very far out of touch with what poverity is like.