If raiding was..

[jellmoo]

I am all for discussion but when someone reply with something 100% completely not relevant and trying to counter my argument with that zero sense not relevant subject? yeah that is just showing either lack of understanding and reading comprehension or some people don't bother to read the OP at all.

Dude, just clarify what you mean in that case. Immediately flying off the handle the second somebody doesn't directly address the exact point you're trying to make isn't going to get you anywhere. Calmly explaining your point and giving feedback is a lot better at moving a discussion topic along than insults and swearing.

[bloodwulf]

The foundation of this argument is flawed.

FFXIV puts major lore antagonists in raids and dungeons all the time. In fact many raids and dungeons are required to progress the MSQ. Also, there have been plenty of raids (and dungeons) that are essentially contained side stories in WoW (see every troll patch ever).

This. OP has obviously never played FF14 at all. Hell they even have Duty Roulette that can put players into Main Story raids/dungeons to help people progress through it.

[Velshin]

This. OP has obviously never played FF14 at all. Hell they even have Duty Roulette that can put players into Main Story raids/dungeons to help people progress through it.

I did play FFXIV up to Heavensward with my dragoon class thank you for jumping to conclusion like a dumb you really are.
Infracted

[bloodwulf]

I did play FFXIV up to Heavensward with my dragoon class thank you for jumping to conclusion like a dumb you really are.

If you did, you would realize your entire comparison is invalid as FF14 REQUIRED raids for Main Story. But sure continue to make ad hominem attacks like you have been everytime someone points out an error in your line of thinking.

[Garymorilix]

Why would you ever do this after 15 years of not doing this?

Players like raids with named enemies that we actually know. It's fun.
The raid setting is perfect for the epic feeling of defeating some bad guy.
You can do LFR if you don't care about difficulty too.

There is no reason why an expansions main story would not include raids... "Here is this big evil mofo you gotta kill before he consumes your universe".
"Okay, how?"
"Well, you do a 30 min quest chain and solo him at the end".
"Well..."

[Jujudrood]

Ignoring the obvious flaws and just looking at the concept, I feel the story would suffer even more.
WoW's concept of raiding, where you have a small army of Adventurers taking down the big bad, changed the way stories get told in MMOs.
With WoW being the premier MMO, taking this story concept and resolving it completely via solo quests and such would take that MMO portion of the MMORPG and make it even less important than it is today.

I'm perfectly fine with zones having their own stories, main and side, and even having cross-mojo between zones, it's all well and good.
But, if we went to SL and we stopped Sylvanas AND the Jailer solo, via some open world quest... yeah, that would feel like absolute dogshit.
No other way to put it.

[Velshin]

so am i? the entire war campaign doesn't require entering a raid and that's the expansions main story line. and it's not like it's just fetch quests either theres a lot of solo instances in it as well. heck they even made like 30 minutes of full on cinematics for it this time around.

the dazaralor raid might be the one exception, that does have maybe 10% of the storytelling of that patch happening in it. but crucible of storms, palace, nyalothoa all the story happens nearly exclusively in singleplayer content.

but please, give us an example of a wow story that's primarily told through raids.

You just dont get it do you? I never said anything about story being through raid or not... it seems I have to repeat myself. My point is the story of the raid itself.


The main point of the topic:

Do you think if the story of the raids in WoW should be always SIDE STORY examples like, Uldir, Malygos lair, Gruul Lair, these examples of WoW side story raids.

Main story raids in WoW are: Icc, Nyalotha, Azshara palace, Antorus.


So the question is do you like raids focus on more side stories or main stories?

[Kaver]

You just dont get it do you? I never said anything about story being through raid or not... it seems I have to repeat myself. My point is the story of the raid itself.


The main point of the topic:

Do you think if the story of the raids in WoW should be always SIDE STORY examples like, Uldir, Malygos lair, Gruul Lair, these examples of WoW side story raids.

Main story raids in WoW are: Icc, Nyalotha, Azshara palace, Antorus.


So the question is do you like raids focus on more side stories or main stories?

Mate why do you keep answering people who missed the point instead of those who actually gave good feedback? You’re complaining that people are missing the point but you’re not even answering the people who DID get the point. So what is your goal with this thread if you just want to argue? You’re being a part of the problem by turning your own thread into a pointless argument about petty things.. just ignore people if they cannot be bothered by reading the OP.

I asked you: if they moved many of the major stories from raids to solo content/questing/campaigns then who would we actually be fighting in the raids? Because people wont be very motivated to go into raids to only fight some nonamed NPCs.

Now if you’re not too busy arguing with people over them missing the point, you could maybe stay on topic and answer some of the topic related questions. Thanks.

[czarek]

its called LFR, you can complete any raid for story line in there solo. It is pretty much FFXIV story raids.

emm XD main story line isnt throu raids. Mostly its quest campain.

[gaymer77]

Do you think if Blizzard decided to make raiding storyline not the end game storyline but a side story and you can experience the main major storyline by doing campaign quests (kinda similar to FFXIV and ESO)....the storytelling of WoW could be improved? by not making many major characters = raid bosses or 5 man dungeon bosses.


Discuss and thanks for reading everyone.

Having played both ESO and FFXIV I can say that FF definitely had several parts where you had to do raids/dungeons in order to progress in the storyline. Yes it has single person quests you have to do for the bulk of the storyline but there are many times where you have to go into dungeons or raids to further the personal storyline. ESO doesn't have any that I can think of but I could very well be wrong.

[Velshin]

Mate why do you keep answering people who missed the point instead of those who actually gave good feedback? You’re complaining that people are missing the point but you’re not even answering the people who DID get the point. So what is your goal with this thread if you just want to argue? You’re being a part of the problem by turning your own thread into a pointless argument about petty things.. just ignore people if they cannot be bothered by reading the OP.

I asked you: if they moved many of the major stories from raids to solo content/questing/campaigns then who would we actually be fighting in the raids? Because people wont be very motivated to go into raids to only fight some nonamed NPCs.

Now if you’re not too busy arguing with people over them missing the point, you could maybe stay on topic and answer some of the topic related questions. Thanks.

Thanks for answering my question. We could have raids like side stories like the examples I mentioned back then in Wotlk era Ulduar was considered as a side story (the main story was Naxx and ICC and the scourge). And Ulduar was considered for many players including me as one of the best raids in the game ever not just for the gameplay purpose and the hardmode but the lore was awesome. That is why I personally enjoy side story raids more than main ones.

[Hellobolis]

You just dont get it do you? I never said anything about story being through raid or not... it seems I have to repeat myself. My point is the story of the raid itself.


The main point of the topic:

Do you think if the story of the raids in WoW should be always SIDE STORY examples like, Uldir, Malygos lair, Gruul Lair, these examples of WoW side story raids.

Main story raids in WoW are: Icc, Nyalotha, Azshara palace, Antorus.


So the question is do you like raids focus on more side stories or main stories?

that might be what you meant, but not what you said.

you said would the storytelling be improved if main characters werent dungeon/raid bosses, but the story was told in campaign quests.

the story IS told in campaign quests, so no it wouldn't be improved by doing that, cause it's already like that. you learn nothing about why you are in the raid while you are in the raid, that all happens in the single player content.

But to answer your "actual" question: historically people have disliked it when you kill important characters in a questing zone or 5man dungeon. people have come to expect the big names to get a impressive memorable bossfight so anything less would be disappointing. Now in theory you can make a memorable fight in a single player setting, but the examples of blizzard succeeding at that for players of all skill levels are exceedingly sparse.

[Kaver]

Thanks for answering my question. We could have raids like side stories like the examples I mentioned back then in Wotlk era Ulduar was considered as a side story (the main story was Naxx and ICC and the scourge). And Ulduar was considered for many players including me as one of the best raids in the game ever not just for the gameplay purpose and the hardmode but the lore was awesome. That is why I personally enjoy side story raids more than main ones.

I get your point.

Just for curiosity, which raids in BFA would you consider side story and main story, respectively? What would you have moved to campaigns and what would you have kept/added to raids?

[Velshin]

I get your point.

Just for curiosity, which raids in BFA would you consider side story and main story, respectively? What would you have moved to campaigns and what would you have kept/added to raids?

Good question, in BfA Uldir and the entire story behind Ghuun is indeed a side story. About Nyalotha for me personally I was ok for it being a raid and fighting Nzoth at the end but I would love it if the nyalotha realm has its entire dedicated area kinda like mechagon area. an entire big zone or three zones kinda like Argus planet in legion expansion make these big zones are Nyalotha realm where we the players do an epic campaign questline to weaken Nzoth qnd actually fighting him in an epic quest or like a world boss to weak him then finally engage him in the raid to get the final blow.

[TaurenNinja]

A mix of the two "goals" is probably better than going into purely one or the other direction. Sometimes it makes sense to have the big baddie of the story to be a raid endboss. Sometimes it does not. Also, it's probably seems more natural less artificially constructed if you mix it up a bit.
Also, usually the first couple of raids in an expansion are sort of side story events that just happen along the way until the real big baddie appears in the last raid as the final boss.