I don't get something about m+15 dropping lower gear than heroic raiding

[Whitedragon]

The reason it's lower than heroic is so m+ doesn't affect the more popular endgame, raiding. In the past you had raiders gearing for raiding in M+. Now it will be the opposite. Which is good for raiders.

But it also means to compete in M+ you need to raid mythic, something very odd considering even a mythic + team usually wont have more then 5-6 people on standby, thus lacking a good 10 people to hit that 20 people mark. also unlike mythic + you NEED to have them on your realm group for the raids so you cant even try to find likeminded people in LFG which is per the usual for the M+ group.

Now I guess they can just incorporate a preset gear max to M+ so raiders don't get an advantage in this field, but lets remember how well that worked for PvP... everyone needs a carrot to chase. Another option is to just let gear continue to scale up past 15+ (to say +25 or something) So it's automatically harder then Mythic raiding to get equivalent gear, at which point who the hell cares what the Mythic raiders think if they cant beat the harder content to get at level gear they need to "Get good"

[Darkeon]

Mythic+ Dungeons would probably need to have their total loot capped per week, to more or less match their counterpart in Raiding.

Having the rewards scale past 15 isn't also a bad idea. But I'd wager that the problem would still be there are boosts are now a thing and apparently acceptably so - so even with the content being harder, nothing would stop you from purchasing a full gear set.

[Arinitty]

Mythic+ Dungeons would probably need to have their total loot capped per week, to more or less match their counterpart in Raiding.

Having the rewards scale past 15 isn't also a bad idea. But I'd wager that the problem would still be there are boosts are now a thing and apparently acceptably so - so even with the content being harder, nothing would stop you from purchasing a full gear set.

To take boosts into account is one of the stupidest things i have seen on this website. Raiders were not "forced" into m+ past the first week to get heroic ilvl.

The box STILL drops a mythic piece and raiders will STILL have to do a 15 every week.

The change does nothing but upset people who only do m+... raiders are still going to do m+ the first week to get their ilvl up for heroic/mythic then stop and only do 1 a week if they don't like m+.

[Volardelis]

But Mythic plus scales indefinitely Raiding dose not.

And with raiding, you are competing against more people than a dungeon for gear.

[Nachtigal]

You have to take into consideration that there is no lockout for m+. Even if you full clear heroic, how many items do you expect to get? 3? While even with lower ilv m+ is a guarantee full set the moment they are out.

Guaranteed eventually. Nobody I’ve ever known has gotten fully geared in a day from M+. Rng plays a big part in how fast you gear. Dungeons take time, and if you get unlucky... you know the rest

[Elbob]

The change does nothing but upset people who only do m+... raiders are still going to do m+ the first week to get their ilvl up for heroic/mythic then stop and only do 1 a week if they don't like m+.

For people that only do M+, why does the ilvl of M+ rewards in relation to heroic raid gear matter at all?

[Shaetha]

Raiding should not reward the highest gear possible. Multiple sources should reward the same highest ilvl. Gear shouldn't be restricted to one part of the game.

This is just bad thinking overall and is unhealthy for the game in the end.

Raiding is more difficult to organize. It needs to give more, or it becomes redundant as a gearing route.

Other routes for mythic raid level gear need to be much less reliable. Any other way, and no mythic raid boss ever gets killed more than once.

[Depakote]

Well you see one is a dungeon, the other is a raid.

[Semune]

According to who? That's a bold claim to make with zero evidence to back it up... Also as far as that goes, I would say nether really matter in the end. No one really cares past the world first race when it comes to whos doing what In raiding, likewise no one cares about anyone but the very top M+ runners and their best runs so...

Man the WoW community nowadays... It's so weird how people actually value M+ when it's so faceroll compared to the coordination required with raiding. WoW has always been about raiding, if they changed that this game would instantly die.

[crakerjack]

I like m+, but I like raiding more. Anything that’ll bring more players to the raiding seen is a plus in my book. M+ is fun, but gets boring halfway through an expansion because it’s the same content aside from the seasonal affix. I’ll do both in SL, but by no means is this a bad move in my book.

[Darkeon]

To take boosts into account is one of the stupidest things i have seen on this website. Raiders were not "forced" into m+ past the first week to get heroic ilvl.

The box STILL drops a mythic piece and raiders will STILL have to do a 15 every week.

The change does nothing but upset people who only do m+... raiders are still going to do m+ the first week to get their ilvl up for heroic/mythic then stop and only do 1 a week if they don't like m+.

No one is forced into anything in a game, that however doesn't change the current available variables at play.

[Arinitty]

No one is forced into anything in a game, that however doesn't change the current available variables at play.

If you are a raider and show up to raid with m0 gear INSTEAD of heroic -3 ilvl from m+ you are a trash raider and I'd sit you on the spot. People WILL be doing m+ the first week for gear, fact, no question. So now you will just have gear that's 3 ilvls lower than heroic. Which then gets replaced by mythic and better stated heroic gear.

The only people affected by the -3 ilvls are shitters in heroic only guilds. And people who only do m+. Anyone that doesn't like m+ will still do the 15.

If you are in a mythic guild it has 0 impact on you.

The change to ilvl in m+ was to appease the shitters in heroic guilds that were crying to blizz. Simple as that. If you were in a mythic guild you did not need to m+ past week 1 if you didn't want to.

[Dartakan]

Guaranteed eventually. Nobody I’ve ever known has gotten fully geared in a day from M+. Rng plays a big part in how fast you gear. Dungeons take time, and if you get unlucky... you know the rest

In a day, no, but we are comparing it to raiding, if your main endgame is m+ you are going to be fully geared in 1 week. After a couple of months you will have around 8 mythic ilv items, maybe 1 or 2 less if you get unlucky.

[Whitedragon]

Man the WoW community nowadays... It's so weird how people actually value M+ when it's so faceroll compared to the coordination required with raiding. WoW has always been about raiding, if they changed that this game would instantly die.

Honestly I don't really give a dam about M+, Over Legion and BFA I probably have played less then 20 M+ in total. I'm more trying to play devils advocate here, as I can see the very clear drawbacks to hamstringing what many do consider a fun/competitive game mode. There is no real reason in making gear cap at a lower level then Heroic, when the fact that it is a competitive field demands that toughs who do it competitively need competitive gear. It would be one thing if they pushed what I level drops from what +key but no they just hard cap it low forcing the people who do want to play it and only it towards Mythic raiding in order to have any chance at top runs/times. At least before they only needed todo that for a very small margin of power increase, so many players could easily ignore that, but now that it's below heroic you will be gaining to many stats from the gear to ignore...

Also I do believe someone pushing top level keys could argue that it's actually mythic raiding that is the face roll field because once again their content has scaling difficulty and thus will eventually beat out mythic (If not in hard coordination mechanics from bosses, then in raw crazy stat totals on mobs) in terms of difficulty.

[enderzone]

I think it was a compromise. Currently in bfa mythic+ was over rewarding for what it offered. Personally I would rather they simply increase how many levels give out rewards and cap it just below mythic with a 20 but by that point it falls pretty brutally into class stacking.

The problem is a mythic 15 is way,way to easy but a mythic 20 or 25 starts to require specific comps to beat. I don't really think there is a middle ground that leaves both sides happy.

[Dartakan]

Honestly I don't really give a dam about M+, Over Legion and BFA I probably have played less then 20 M+ in total. I'm more trying to play devils advocate here, as I can see the very clear drawbacks to hamstringing what many do consider a fun/competitive game mode. There is no real reason in making gear cap at a lower level then Heroic, when the fact that it is a competitive field demands that toughs who do it need competitive gear. It would be one thing if they pushed what I level drops from what +key but no they just hard cap it low forcing the people who do want to play it and it only into Mythic raiding in order to have any chance. At least before they only needed todo that for a very small margin of power increase so many could easily ignore that, but now that it's below heroic you will be gaining to many stats from the gear to ignore...

Also I do believe someone pushing top level keys could argue that it's actually mythic raiding that is the face roll field because once again their content has scaling difficulty and thus will eventually beat out mythic (If not in hard coordination mechanics from bosses, then in raw crazy stat totals on mobs) in terms of difficulty.

The game is not balance around +20/30 m+, you cant expect Blizzard to set up a reward structure that scale to infinity.

[Vasaru]

Raiding should not reward the highest gear possible. Multiple sources should reward the same highest ilvl. Gear shouldn't be restricted to one part of the game.

This is just bad thinking overall and is unhealthy for the game in the end.

I quite like this idea.

[Huntermyth]

As opposed to making raiding easy by over gearing it with M15+ giving higher than heroic raid gear?

Besides, it's not so much the gear that matters with higher keys as it is executing mechanics. Gear will only carry you so much.

gear is not as important as skill ofc but having low gear for a specific key is a no - no.

no matter how skilled a tank you are for example, if you are getting one shot by an unavoidable spike damage means wipe in almost all cases.

let's say that with skill comes gear (naturally) and they hold hands along the road.

[Arinitty]

For people that only do M+, why does the ilvl of M+ rewards in relation to heroic raid gear matter at all?

Why do raiders care that m+ dropped heroic ilvl? When they didn't have to do it. The obvious answer is everyone wants their little number in their character sheet to be a little higher.

Best solution would be 15 drops heroic gear so everyone can get it and its another viable progression system. And 25s drop mythic gear.

A 25 in bfa was way harder than any of the mythic fights outside of like week 1 and 2. Anyone that thinks differently is delusional or in a shit guild.

[Neuroticaine]

gear is not as important as skill ofc but having low gear for a specific key is a no - no.

no matter how skilled a tank you are for example, if you are getting one shot by an unavoidable spike damage means wipe in almost all cases.

let's say that with skill comes gear (naturally) and they hold hands along the road.

And also no matter how skilled OR geared you are, a tank alone will not save a group that fails to deal with Volcanic, Explosive, Necrotic, Bursting, etc... properly.