World is the main character, player is the story, community is the content...

[Big Thanks]

Regarding the Chris Kaleiki developer video of why he left.

The thing i've been trying to tell you guys for the past few days was perfectly said by him in the quote:

The vision of the game was very clear, it was big concepts like, "The world is the main character, the player is the story and community is the content"
In the modern game this concepts still exist but to a lesser degree

What do you guys think about this?

There were also some other important quotes like "Some developers are still confused as to what is the vision of the game AND others think this is a more modern take"

Video on main page of MMO-C:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iznL...l=ChrisKaleiki

[Nnyco]

I think we dont need a third thread about his video.

[Big Thanks]

I think we dont need a third thread about his video.

what? ugh...im sorry....i didnt see....
sorry

edit: @Nnyco where is it? I dont see any

[Gaidax]

WoW is not a sandbox.

That all. The guy wants to get some hype for the new venture, that's great, but also not everything should be taken at face value. WoW is and always was a designed content rather than sandbox. Community is the content was in DaOC.

[Nnyco]

what? ugh...im sorry....i didnt see....
sorry

edit: @Nnyco where is it? I dont see any

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ame?p=52819527

https://www.mmo-champion.com/content...age=4#comments

[Beastiel]

couple of worthless platitudes and vague nostalgia pandering. Awesome. Wow isn't a sandbox game and never really was. I'm glad he had fun ruining other people's progress in classic and I'm sorry he can't do it in retail, very tragic.

[Elias01]

couple of worthless platitudes and vague nostalgia pandering. Awesome. Wow isn't a sandbox game and never really was. I'm glad he had fun ruining other people's progress in classic and I'm sorry he can't do it in retail, very tragic.

He was talking about how wow desing allowed for players made content and intearctions which made game fun even when you had negattive experience in some cases. Yes even negattive experience can be fun and memorable experience.

[Big Thanks]

WoW is not a sandbox.

That all. The guy wants to get some hype for the new venture, that's great, but also not everything should be taken at face value. WoW is and always was a designed content rather than sandbox. Community is the content was in DaOC.

Isnt every MMO a sandbox when it comes to the social part?

The ingame content may not be sandbox...but im pretty sure any MMO is capable of supporting a sandbox social adventure...no matter how bad it is.

[Elias01]

The kind of games this guy want to make is a dream MMo from the early 2000s' that wouldn't sell today.

It's easy to criticize wow today, millions of people still pay to play it.

HAha classic proved you wrong. There is huge demand for that type of mmo.

[Scathan]

what? ugh...im sorry....i didnt see....
sorry

edit: @Nnyco where is it? I dont see any

You really don't need to apologize to him. He could have just not clicked the thread.

[melodramocracy]

He was talking about how wow desing allowed for players made content and intearctions which made game fun even when you had negattive experience in some cases. Yes even negattive experience can be fun and memorable experience.

It was never really about player made content though, and anyone who played prior MMO's knows this. Allowing player driven behavior also means allowing for bad behavior, and allowing players to have the capacity to self correct. WoW offers none of this, and never really has, even in classic.

[Zig Zug]

HAha classic proved you wrong. There is huge demand for that type of mmo.

Define huge.

[Calfredd]

You really don't need to apologize to him. He could have just not clicked the thread.

Except duplicate threads are deleted and locked all the time.

[bronjamin]

He is 100% right. The story they are trying to push in this MMO is not only bad because they are bad writers, but also because story in an MMO just doesn't work. There are just way too many restrictions to story-telling, and some of their "solutions" just make the actual gameplay worse, like phasing.

We just had an expansion focused on the faction conflict, but that kind of story can never really be compelling because we know, there can't be a winner to this conflict unless the game ends. So you end up with nonsensical situations where we make peace at the end again, like Siege of Orgrimmar or... right before the "second Siege of Orgrimmar".

[Wadrak]

I disagree.

When he mentions classic...

Blizz needs to stop looking back and advance.

I was hyped about classic, I tried it but I didnt like it at all.

I really like changes and new features in Shadowlands.
Game is moving in right direction.

[Lane]

It's this old school, early 2000s MMO mentality that some of the Blizzard devs have that I feel is holding WoW back from moving forward. I'm always reminded of one of the Wildstar devs who ironically said that solo players, who account for as much as 65%, are an under-served demographic. I think that your average WoW player isn't interested in having to depend upon other players to accomplish objectives nor are they interested in other players being a hindrance to their progress. I include myself in this too. I like being in a game with other people, but I do not like having to be dependent upon them.

I'd also like to note that WoW shot themselves in the foot early on by being the most solo friendly, casual MMO by comparison when it debuted. I never would have gotten into the other MMOs, like Everquest or Asheron's Call, and had WoW stuck with a similar model I never would have gotten into it either. It's always seemed strange to me that there seems to be this desire to cling to something that WoW was a marked departure from at the time. Somewhere along the line I feel like WoW quit being innovative and started backtracking for that nostalgia and I think it's a mistake.

[Kralljin]

Classic is a fad. It will pass.

Maybe because the game is, first and foremost, finite?

[Kaver]

Regarding the Chris Kaleiki developer video of why he left.

The thing i've been trying to tell you guys for the past few days was perfectly said by him in the quote:



What do you guys think about this?

There were also some other important quotes like "Some developers are still confused as to what is the vision of the game AND others think this is a more modern take"

Video on main page of MMO-C:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iznL...l=ChrisKaleiki

I think: that a lot of players have been saying this for a long time now so don’t you dare say “I’ve been trying to tell you guys..” and trying to take credit for it as “your idea”

[Yavimawa]

He is 100% right. The story they are trying to push in this MMO is not only bad because they are bad writers, but also because story in an MMO just doesn't work. There are just way too many restrictions to story-telling, and some of their "solutions" just make the actual gameplay worse, like phasing.

We just had an expansion focused on the faction conflict, but that kind of story can never really be compelling because we know, there can't be a winner to this conflict unless the game ends. So you end up with nonsensical situations where we make peace at the end again, like Siege of Orgrimmar or... right before the "second Siege of Orgrimmar".

Also, flaying around with millions of "chosen ones" and "most trusted lieutenants" is soooooo immersive. "Psst... hey, kids. Do you wanna some... Doomhammers?"