The Runecarver is the Primus

[razorpax]

Yes and based on what runecarver said it seems like he wants payback for whats been done to him almost like its been awhile stuck like that. There was another person I wondered who it could be but the fingers gave it away so I think not.

I think the jailer twisted the primus causing physical changes but that’s only a possibility I’m considering because of how much we’ve seen magic change the bodies of people.

Also the jailer turning his brother into an ally until the 11th hour marks another box for the sargeras comparison

- - - Updated - - -

I think it is very evident he made the chains and bindings for the jailor.

Yep and what eternal one just so happens to be a master forger and uses rune crafted items???

9.1 shall give more hints because it looks like NecroLord/maldraxxus will be the focus and that means finding out about the fate of the primus

Blizzard always tries to go for a twist but never succeed because it’s almost always obvious and the primus is working to be one

[shoc]

I think this supports the theory. The Jailer has been extracting the Runecarver's most awesome plans for taking the secrets of the First Ones.

The Primus had the power to see countless different realities and was able to formulate unbeatable battle plans in addition to being an expert crafter of the most awesome weapons. Both things are being exploited by the Jailer in imprisoning and brain-draining the Runecarver.

[rainhard]

If it is the Primus his fate kinda sucks being betrayed, imprisoned in the maw, stolen of his memories to be used against him while mentally and physically tortured/broken.

[Darknessvamp]

I think this supports the theory. The Jailer has been extracting the Runecarver's most awesome plans for taking the secrets of the First Ones.

The Primus had the power to see countless different realities and was able to formulate unbeatable battle plans in addition to being an expert crafter of the most awesome weapons. Both things are being exploited by the Jailer in imprisoning and brain-draining the Runecarver.

Doesn't this actually work against the "Runecarver is the Primus" theory? The cutscene confirms the Runecarver has been in the Maw since the end the Second War at least whereas the breakdown of Maldraxxus due to infighting and the Primus having gone missing is only a recent development and add on the fact the Warning Message he left behind seems have only been recently made suggests they are unlikely to be the same person. I mean I know time isn't a "construct of death" but they still have a concept of it and track eons and the Runecarver being in Torghast years ago and the time since the Primus' disappearance don't seem to match as of this moment.

I mean unless they intend to reveal the Primus has been absent from Maldraxxus for centuries with his message just left undiscovered all that time and no one in Maldraxxus or the other Covenants or the Arbiter for that matter even thought to check out where he was or may have disappeared to despite being such a crucial figure to the running of the Shadowlands. That would feel a little silly if that turns out to be the case.

[tommyhil622]

Doesn't this actually work against the "Runecarver is the Primus" theory? The cutscene confirms the Runecarver has been in the Maw since the end the Second War at least whereas the breakdown of Maldraxxus due to infighting and the Primus having gone missing is only a recent development and add on the fact the Warning Message he left behind seems have only been recently made suggests they are unlikely to be the same person. I mean I know time isn't a "construct of death" but they still have a concept of it and track eons and the Runecarver being in Torghast years ago and the time since the Primus' disappearance don't seem to match as of this moment.

I mean unless they intend to reveal the Primus has been absent from Maldraxxus for centuries with his message just left undiscovered all that time and no one in Maldraxxus or the other Covenants or the Arbiter for that matter even thought to check out where he was or may have disappeared to despite being such a crucial figure to the running of the Shadowlands. That would feel a little silly if that turns out to be the case.

When you go through the questing in Maldraxxus it's known that the Primus has been gone a long time, it's not a new event.

[Darknessvamp]

When you go through the questing in Maldraxxus it's known that the Primus has been gone a long time, it's not a new event.

True I'm aware they say he's been gone for a "long" time but how long is that in the Shadowlands and for Maldraxxus before they started infighting due to it? Especially when both Draka and Vashj appear to have some personal idea about who he is and what his personally forged weapons look like and Vashj died long after the Helm was forged.

[tommyhil622]

True I'm aware they say he's been gone for a "long" time but how long is that in the Shadowlands and for Maldraxxus before they started infighting due to it? Especially when both Draka and Vashj appear to have some personal idea about who he is and what his personally forged weapons look like and Vashj died long after the Helm was forged.

Well everyone in Maldraxxus knows who Primus is, hard not to know how the timelines work but i think it still fits imo. Time will tell eventually.

The other thing i see here is how the Jailer is invading the Runecarver's mind. Perhaps his mind is open to manipulation. It's possible that us assisting him (Runecarver) that may lead to helping the jailer's cause.

[Aucald]

Well everyone in Maldraxxus knows who Primus is, hard not to know how the timelines work but i think it still fits imo. Time will tell eventually.

The other thing i see here is how the Jailer is invading the Runecarver's mind. Perhaps his mind is open to manipulation. It's possible that us assisting him (Runecarver) that may lead to helping the jailer's cause.

Domination seems to be one of the Jailer's stocks in trade, as he exhibits similar psionic influence over the captive Azerothians in Torghast (explicitly in the case of Thrall in the Upper Reaches). He seems to desire to bend them to his will.

[Sondrelk]

Will be interesting to see what happens going forward.

If the Runecarver is the Primus then it should logically follow that the Necrolords will have a vested interest in freeing him, or at the very least ensure he is okay with leaving the defense of Maldraxxus, and the purpose of the Necrolords as the Shadowlands protectors to us while he is stuck in the Maw.

Personally I think this will all come together in 9.1. Especially if you are a believer in the 1 raid per covenant theory then 9.1 would be perfect for a raid that "concludes" the Necrolord storyline in the same way that Castle Nathria leaves teh Venthyr storyline open to not just fixing their own problems.

[shoc]

True I'm aware they say he's been gone for a "long" time but how long is that in the Shadowlands and for Maldraxxus before they started infighting due to it? Especially when both Draka and Vashj appear to have some personal idea about who he is and what his personally forged weapons look like and Vashj died long after the Helm was forged.

There's a time window between Draka arriving in the Shadowlands (Year 1) and Ner'zhul being bound into the Domination Armor (Year 8) which could account for the time that Draka spent rising to prominence, the Primus being kidnapped and tortured, and the Domination Gear and Frostmourne being made.

But that would rule of Vashj having personally met the Primus because she died in year 26, practically 20 years too late to meet the Primus, if he is the Runecarver.

[Minikin]

The 'Primus grew a finger in the Maw' theory is kind of a stretch lol

One would even say, "it's a bit out of hand"

[qwerty123456]

While the cutscene kinda shuts down my theory that the Runecarver creation of the helm was the reason he was locked up I will say that its interesting that we don't see the Jailer in the cutscene. Although unlikely I think its still possible Zovaal is the runecarver. He says your finest mourneblade meaning he has created more. Plus he mentions the runecarvers mind already being broken. Maybe I'm reading too much into it and its just that blizzard did a slapdash job on the cutscenes, models and stuff and forgot the number of fingers. I mean they do have in this one his power coming from his chest/head area instead of one of his hands.

After running through the Maldraxxus to Ardenweald again and hearing Bolvar say the helm still resonates with the power of the maw what if the Runecarver is Zovaal and the betrayal the Primus was talking about was forging shit with the power of the maw?

We don't know when helm of domination was crafted and we only have the runecarvers words " I was used by him. The Jailer, they call him. Used to make... to make... Hmm. My memories. Did you take them? No. He took them.
Runecarver says: Used me for his purpose. Then left me here. Bereft of memory for... how long? It matters not. Time, after all, is not a construct of Death." to go on for what he crafted. What if the Jailer/Eternal Ones had tricked Zovaal into making the very chains that bound him in order to stop him? He could have even been the one to remove his own memories in order to infest the Jailer and others with his will which would explain why you can find them all over the place and not locked up somewhere.

Also Ve'nari even warns us: "Before you do so, I offer a word of warning.

No creature imprisoned in that place should be trusted. Tread carefully, mortal.

After all, it would be a shame to lose so valuable a business partner."

It would explain why he kinda has similar vibes to the Primus but also looks different. And if they were brothers it would explain why both were great crafters one went dark and the other devoted themselves to protecting the shadowlands.

[shoc]

While the cutscene kinda shuts down my theory that the Runecarver creation of the helm was the reason he was locked up I will say that its interesting that we don't see the Jailer in the cutscene. Although unlikely I think its still possible Zovaal is the runecarver. He says your finest mourneblade meaning he has created more. Plus he mentions the runecarvers mind already being broken. Maybe I'm reading too much into it and its just that blizzard did a slapdash job on the cutscenes, models and stuff and forgot the number of fingers. I mean they do have in this one his power coming from his chest/head area instead of one of his hands.

Pretty sure Zovaal is the Jailer.

[qwerty123456]

Pretty sure Zovaal is the Jailer.

Thats what we assume. I don't think anyone other than us mortals have seen him though.

[tommyhil622]

[bulletnipz]

It's pretty much confirmed, they're not exactly being subtle with it. Maldraxxus questing zone explicitly states that The Primus crafts runeblades and we know that the Jailer didn't create Frostmourne or the Helm of Domination and that it came from "The Runecarver". Also explains why Maldraxxus mirrors the scourge in its designs with their necropolis and armour ect as they are essentially made in the image of the same person.

[tommyhil622]

It's pretty much confirmed, they're not exactly being subtle with it. Maldraxxus questing zone explicitly states that The Primus crafts runeblades and we know that the Jailer didn't create Frostmourne or the Helm of Domination and that it came from "The Runecarver". Also explains why Maldraxxus mirrors the scourge in its designs with their necropolis and armour ect as they are essentially made in the image of the same person.

Agreed. I don't seen any plausible way of explaining all the connections. Imo he is primus just thay hes been battered and tortured for a long time. His memories expunged to limit him and humble him.

[Newname1234567890]

It's seems do obvious I think there's a twist coming.

[shoc]

His memories expunged to limit him and humble him.

And to keep the ultimate reveal... a reveal

[octapusx]

To those saying "the primus went missing recently" you have not been paying attention to the storyline at all. The venari mentions quite a few times that Thorghast is a twisted place where time flows differently. When you rescue Jaina, she is completely lost in thought. It is very much possible the runecarver has been in Thorghast for a very long time, even though he went missing as the primus recently.