Are streamers and content creators out of touch with the playerbase?

[munkeyinorbit]

For the entire beta (that us regular folks didn't get access to) we heard two things:

• Torghast is amazing
• Covenants are shit and will exclude you from content if you don't minmax

Now that the game has been out for a while I think we can safely say that both these things were false. Torghast is unrewarding, slow and boring while covenants are amazing in so many ways and nobody really seems to care which one you chose.

Are streamers and content creators so out of touch with the general playerbase and if so, could it possibly be damaging to the game considering how much louder their voices are?

Have you got your legendary? If so then your statement about torgahst being unrewarding is false. If you haven't then your opinion on torgahst is irrelevant because you haven't actually run torgahst.

Everyone knew that the hysteria about covenants was wrong. Actually thinking that you would be 3xcluded based on your covenant was never going to be a thing.

[Lasombria]

Absolutely. Ask a yes / no question and you get 10 shades of grey inbetween.

Not to mention people complaining about the fit of their shoes, their romantic lives, and things that didn't actually ever happen in the past.

[Maruka]

The issue is torghast(choreghast, boreghast) is a massive time sink which is ok for streamers, so they dont mind. Covenants are fun and move quite quickly so they are enjoyable for everyone.

[kail]

The fun of Thorgast is entirely subjective. I enjoyed my runs on them though I wish there were some rewards outside of ash. Covenants so far seem OK but I am still very much against how locked our characters are to an ability for the entire expansion.

[Amsden]

Pretty sure the original design of Torghast was praised, then once Blizzard realized it was fun they changed it.

[Zyky]

Almost like the two things you mentioned went through either massive changes to the system itself or tuning since those streamers/content creators had access to them.

I could only imagine if we didn't bitch on the alpha forums what Torghast would have been like....originally it had a key system and you'd only get a couple keys a week from clearing out The Maw daily lol. Only thing I'm a bit salty about is how Torghast used to award some armor for alting and you could level in Torghast on Alpha.

Also covenants are still drastically overtuned, primarily when it comes to M+...you pretty much want one of the covenant for the dungeon you're in or you're putting yourself at a pretty major disadvantage.

[Collected]

For the entire beta (that us regular folks didn't get access to) we heard two things:

• Torghast is amazing
• Covenants are shit and will exclude you from content if you don't minmax

Now that the game has been out for a while I think we can safely say that both these things were false. Torghast is unrewarding, slow and boring while covenants are amazing in so many ways and nobody really seems to care which one you chose.

Are streamers and content creators so out of touch with the general playerbase and if so, could it possibly be damaging to the game considering how much louder their voices are?

A couple of thoughts on that. Torghast changed dramatically during testing. Something worth keeping in mind. And whilst there were concerns regarding covenants I also heard plenty of optimism too. I think a lot of this perception depends on who you watch. There are creators who go for dramatic headlines and takes to get the views. This is known and accepted as being part of the gig. I don't like it personally but that's how it works. But there are also creators who took a balanced view and were always optimistic Shadowlands would be a great expansion.

Based on how many hours the streamers I watched pumped into alpha/beta I'm perfectly OK if their voices were a little louder than the rest of us. If that's even the case which I'm sceptical about personally.

[MoanaLisa]

"Influencers" are supposed to direct the playerbase. It's an important difference from being out of touch.

Most of them will say whatever they think they need to say to get views. In that sense they are not so much out of touch but trying to keep up with what they imagine their core audience is thinking. It's an interesting contradiction: follow their audience but still be an "influencer". It's a good reason to pay no attention to them at all. I can make my own opinions. I'm not especially interested in theirs.

There are a few that really do try to buck this and consistently honestly report what they think but they are a rare thing and generally succumb a few times to using outrage to pump up their views.

[StillMcfuu]

Torghast is pretty great, even though its not really the same version that was praised by early access players. The issue is after the initial praise, Torghast wasn't talked about anymore, and for good reason, it never had significant rewards attached to it. It went through a ton of changes, almost all completely unreported by streamers.

Covenants; simply put the abilities were nerfed into the ground, you could almost get away with not using them and still being pretty close to full potential with your class

[rrayy]

For the entire beta (that us regular folks didn't get access to) we heard two things:

• Torghast is amazing
• Covenants are shit and will exclude you from content if you don't minmax

Now that the game has been out for a while I think we can safely say that both these things were false. Torghast is unrewarding, slow and boring while covenants are amazing in so many ways and nobody really seems to care which one you chose.

Are streamers and content creators so out of touch with the general playerbase and if so, could it possibly be damaging to the game considering how much louder their voices are?

Your opinions are not fact. Basically all you are trying to do here is project your opinin as fact as you can say "I was right". For soem people Torghast actually is amazing, so you cannot say in any way that their statement is false as it is purely subjective. As for the second, it is very early in the expansion. Things need to play out with later raids before any statement can be made.

[vian]

I stopped watching Streamers after they somehow became the authority on what's right and wrong, and the peak of excellence in games among some players.
Every time I hear "Y is bad because this creator says X is much better"

/facedesk.

[Izzyfurious]

No, that's just how most mainstream media works...
Use of controversal or extremist opinions gets people invested and makes sure they'll stick around for the next video they'll post. Usually these come with click-bait titles to boot.

Ah yes. Clickbait.

Cancer invention of Humans. Whoever first invented that centuries back should have never being born to begin with!

[HitRefresh]

For the entire beta (that us regular folks didn't get access to) we heard two things:

• Torghast is amazing
• Covenants are shit and will exclude you from content if you don't minmax

Now that the game has been out for a while I think we can safely say that both these things were false. Torghast is unrewarding, slow and boring while covenants are amazing in so many ways and nobody really seems to care which one you chose.

Are streamers and content creators so out of touch with the general playerbase and if so, could it possibly be damaging to the game considering how much louder their voices are?

Things changed between beta and live. Torghast was fun when it was endless and you weren't doing it just to get soul ash for the week. It was actually entertaining just to see how far you could get. Now it cuts off at 6 floors and the abilities are far less interesting, maybe unless you've grinded enough rep and stygia to get more rare anima powers.

I have also been denied or otherwise been a lower tier choice for groups for having chosen Necrolords.

[Cosmic Janitor]

No one who plays games for a living in front of an audience will likely be in touch with the reality of someone who doesn't. Your issue though, as has been pointed out, is not due to that, but because you have no grasp on the concept of time and what it means to develop a product.

Most of the "Torghast is awsome" reports date back to a time when it was entirely different, where it was worth overcoming an initial hurdle to practically ascend to divinity later. At that point it didn't even matter that these were 30+ floors, you could practically pull one together during the later stages and AoE them down. The "first aoe on a new floor" powers also made sense because of that back then. They didn't even have the reward structure figured out by then, as they even had blank epic items drop from the bosses. Now it's just randomly switching between a slog for some to faceroll depending on the powers and floor configurations you get. That wouldn't be an issue, if it didn't mean you get to final boss and absolutely can't defeat him and 0.6h to 2h have been entirely wasted for nothing.

Most late beta reports are more along the lines of: "Omg, thank god we don't have to do 6h worth of story introduction runs before we can go to the soul ash grinding part.", because that was the case as well for a period of time.

[Rusken]

This comment hits the nail on the head. Steamers are the same as the talk show hosts. All they care about is keeping you entertained and seeing their bottom line stay steady or go up.

Are they out of touch? in some ways, yes and others no. They know what gets you to watch and hit that donate button so in that sense they are in touch.

You say this like streamer x saying "torghast is fun!" when they don't actually think that is going to get people to donate to them. Like everything any streamer does is the equivalent of a used-car salesman trying to convince you to buy the shitbox in the corner, lying through their teeth because nothing matters as long as you take that shitbox car out of the lot.

I'd place a large bet on the fact that any streamer who's purposely lying because that's what they think people want to hear doesn't have a big enough audience to even be considered a streamer, let alone persuade any design changes in the game itself.

[rrayy]

Pretty sure the original design of Torghast was praised, then once Blizzard realized it was fun they changed it.

People really need to stop with this nonsense. It is utterly false. Fun is subjective and they made changes related to feedback. Let's stick to the facts and not memes that have been driven 17 feet underground.

[m4xc4v413r4]

When the reception of Torghast has been this mixed I don't think that them calling it "amazing" is really accurate. Just because you enjoy it doesn't mean that everyone is.

If you expect "everyone" to enjoy whatever, you're going to die disappointed because that's never going to happen. "Someone" always has a complaint.

[Rinaul]

Depends. I think some higher end keys they'll require certain cov depending on which dungeon and affixes. At least at the start there were some in the finder but other than Sang with the haste bubbles in the hallways I can't see any of them being mandatory.

[intenz]

I agree with the streamers. Torghast was great at launch and covenants suck. Posting this to interrupt the actual out of touch circle jerk which is mmo-champion.

[Echocho]

I agree with the streamers. Torghast was great at launch and covenants suck. Posting this to interrupt the actual out of touch circle jerk which is mmo-champion.

Streamer communities are out of touch circlejerks. At least mmo-champion brings in all sorts of players and not just elitist raiders that want to turn the game into a loadout centered e-sport.