They wer SO CLOSE to nailing it...

[Nayami]

They are a good addition imo though I may be biased since I was lucky that the covenant I wanted to join was the best one for my main spec (by quite a fair gap).. ^^

It would definitely be nicer if these sort of systems separate player-power and cosmetics/lore choices.

Like what if each covenant gave the same covenant ability and conduit traits, but it would be themed differently based on your covenant choice? Sure that means less abilities in the game overall, but what does it matter when most players will always go for the best choice and the other abilities are never used except for the first 2-3 days of leveling on your main.

[Vakir]

I enjoy the Maw very much, especially as a kind of detox after spending too much time in Ardenweald or Bastion Yesterday, I got stuck in the Beastwarrens with no single player around and plenty of elite mobs, and it felt lonely and kind of scary (kind of, because it's still WoW). I didn't have the Ve'nari HS, because I didn't notice I have used up my last charge. I think I see what they tried to achieve there and I appreciate it.

Despite how much I hated it in Beta, I actually kind of agree that the Maw has grown on me, with the one exception being Perdition Hold.

Fuck that place. I get it's literally Hell, and I get it's supposed to feel oppressive and dangerous, but the way mobs are positioned goes from challenging straight into irritating, especially with the kind of range some of them have. When you're engaged in combat, you're usually dealing with not just your mobs, but mobs someone else has engaged that are even remotely close to you. Without realizing it. Lots of AOE fears and long interrupts that you may not even be aware are coming, and aggroing one mob by accident usually means 2-3 on their way too, with the patrol of the big elites on the roads being extremely short. EDIT: Oh, and I forgot about the shacklers. You can't interrupt their initial pull. So there's no way to avoid bodypulling a bunch of extra crap if you're not inclined, just from ONE non-elite.

It just feels somewhat at the mercy of factors you can't control, and there's not a lot of careful counterplay you can do. Even going in as Stealthed or Invis'd, it's just a minefield of abilities that can immediately punt you out. That's not even going into people using the many AOE shouts/dives/roars to grief.

And I am nothing if not masochistic, so I don't mind dying, but the Souls-like of dropping Stygia means that I'm encouraged NOT to do anything there except the weekly because of the risk, because the rewards aren't congruent with it. Too much shit can go wrong that screws me out of my time invested. And quickly grouping is crapped on as an option because of how syncing works with the Maw. As a result, I find myself spending less time doing the content because it's just strategically superior to do so. There's not enough incentive to be there.

It's baffling to me just how much easier the Beastwarrens is, despite being harder to unlock and framed as more ominous (with the red anima lighting and all, implying it's taking place after Revendreth and with the Maw being empowered).

The rest of the zone's fine to me, though.

[ClassicPeon]

You cant make the perfect wow expansion

Everyone wants something different.

Sorry to dissapoint you

[Low Hanging Fruit]

This feels very much like Path of the Titans was finally realized and slid in under someone's nose. But since it is not a Garrison, or borred power, or another Legion Invasion... I am perfectly ok with it.

I mean it probably is borrowed power right? I have my doubts in the next expansion those abilities and renown perks go with you.

[slime]

And somehow they came up with covenants. Why? Just give us soulbinds as a skill tree and let us do whatever we want. It's not like more than 2% of the playerbase are roleplaying about these new "friends" and pledging their services. Weird. I'm pretty sure no one gives a fuck about that one butterfly (I think there are 3 actually) in the Night Fae zone.


I love the expansion so far anyways, but it would be honestly better if it simply didn't exist at all. They wasted time and resources into it. They shouldn't have, in my opinion.

I completely agree. And considering covenants are 95% of this expansion, I can read between the lines.

[huth]

Naturally the idiots who make the game

You mean the guys who are ultimately in it to make money, and are doing so? It's not dumb if it works.

[A Chozo]

Covenants bad

Jesus.

Covenants are awesome, you may not like it but the rest of us found it all very fun - otherwise we would not be playing no engaging with the feature. Stop magically projecting your opinion on the rest of the playerbase.

[Lurker1]

another.. "I hate covenants therefore they shouldn't exist" thread.. cool.
I guess it's better than the Torghast is too easy/too hard threads.. no wait.. it isn't.

Some people like semi meaningful choices within the game.. shocker I know.

well said!

[Rageonit]

Despite how much I hated it in Beta, I actually kind of agree that the Maw has grown on me, with the one exception being Perdition Hold.
Fuck that place.

Agreed, I tend to avoid Perdition Hold if I'm not in a group of friends - for the same reasons, mostly. Although I remember very well streamers complaining in beta about low mob density in the Maw. A case of "be careful what you wish for"? xD

[bloodykiller86]

if people suddenly couldn't complain, nobody would ever post anything here

thats all people do, complain and whine lol what else is new

[Darkguyver2020]

if people suddenly couldn't complain, nobody would ever post anything here

Sometimes I wish I could thumbs up comments on here. You hit the nail right on the head.

[C20]

After a bumpy start into the expansion, I tend to agree (though I am so far only experiencing one covenant)

It does seem like the upgrade system (which I like) mkaes heroic 5 mans obsolete next week? We can upgrade many pieces beyond heroic loot ilv - on the other hand, there are the ring, neck, trinket and weapon slots still open.

Navigating the world and the Maw IS annoying (got lucky however and grabbed a temp mount in the Maw a few times - and ofc we have the item that returns us to Venari). I also enjoyed Torghast (only did it twice, but on both occasions managed to clear the floors and bosses) - but I can't say I really "understand it.

For example Coldheart Inertia (yeah..probably called sth else) allowed me to start on level 2 right away. I never did the level below. Should I have started there? Are there rewards I missed? Time for some research, as the game doesn't tell me...or I missed it if it did.

I always figured that heroic loot was designed as a stop gap until Mythics, but the upgrade system this time around seems to negate that. It also seems to have been introduced earlier than typical gear catch-up systems.

Then again, getting PVP gear up to ilvl 184 isn't too difficult either. A piece or 3 for an hour or 2 in 40-man BG's, and eventually an ilvl 200 piece once you've collected the conquest from winning a lot of them. I've not even stepped into mythics yet (besides a single M0), but I've opted to upgrade the PVP gear to 184 because there's no one there judging whether my class is suitably FOTM to join their party into a +3 mythic.

I can just jump in with a group of random strangers, do something I used to enjoy about 10 years ago, and get geared up. It's definitely made content feel less frustrating - from Torghast, through to world quests. It didn't feel right to me that I needed to head to heroics, to go to mythics, in order to be able to kill some of the elite world quests without losing 10 minutes in the process (e.g. the Kyrian have a daily rare they can kill which is soloable, but some classes need more gear to do it alone compared to others).

There's definitely parts of the game that still seem to require researching outside of the game. If anything, I've felt that's become more prevalent this expansion than in any before it, and it always annoys me. I can't name anything off the top of my head, but there's definitely been times where I've gotten frustrated that I've had to tab out to Wowhead to find an answer. I suppose that's a side effect of so many systems being introduced at once.

Torghast gives you the rewards from the current level and all levels below it. I thought you had to complete the levels below your chosen level first, but when level 7 + 8 opened, it appears that I could go to +8 without doing +7. I haven't even tried that, because I'm comfortable at +6 and the little bit of extra soul ash isn't enough of a bonus for me to consider anything higher.

Jesus.

Covenants are awesome, you may not like it but the rest of us found it all very fun - otherwise we would not be playing no engaging with the feature. Stop magically projecting your opinion on the rest of the playerbase.

You have literally just projected your opinion on the rest of the playerbase and said that everyone else finds it very fun. I enjoy covenants, but not everyone does.

[Jonnusthegreat]

Conduits not changing w/ spec is another blunder as well. (unless they do and I haven't seen how to make that work?)

You can change paths with spec. My 3 specs all have a different path. You can't change conduits, but you can mostly forget about them and just have different paths for different specs. Works great with hybrids, probably sucks on pure.

[Skylarking]

I think it was a success even though I didn't like the idea. Min maxers will choose what's best covenant and the rest chooses what they like. So far there hasn't been adjusting done to make other covenants do more damage but perhaps that will come at a later date like a major patch.

[prwraith]

As long as there is some place somewhere were Paladins have reason to use Necrolords, it actually is. Making every Covenant equally strong for everything is impossible and Blizzard knows that, so it wasn't a goal in the first place.

That's kind of the problem.

I love to raid, always have. Basically the only content I want to do. If I was forced to play night fae to be competitive? I'd either re-roll or stop playing because I hate blizzards bullshit interpretation of that lore so much.

These should be cosmetic without adding borrowed power. Because blizzard felt this burning need to roll power into the covenants they've forced players into playing a covenant they don't like, being sub-optimal by a lot, or not playing at all.

[Malix Farwin]

if people suddenly couldn't complain, nobody would ever post anything here

If no one complained we would have BFA 2.0.

[huth]

That's kind of the problem.

I love to raid, always have. Basically the only content I want to do. If I was forced to play night fae to be competitive? I'd either re-roll or stop playing because I hate blizzards bullshit interpretation of that lore so much.

These should be cosmetic without adding borrowed power. Because blizzard felt this burning need to roll power into the covenants they've forced players into playing a covenant they don't like, being sub-optimal by a lot, or not playing at all.

That's what you want, not what they should be. You're not the sole arbiter on this matter. For the majority of players, you're also seriously overstating it.

If no one complained we would have BFA 2.0.

Not complaining != not giving feedback. In fact, i'd say for most people complaining = not giving feedback.

[rrayy]

And somehow they came up with covenants. Why? Just give us soulbinds as a skill tree and let us do whatever we want. It's not like more than 2% of the playerbase are roleplaying about these new "friends" and pledging their services. Weird. I'm pretty sure no one gives a fuck about that one butterfly (I think there are 3 actually) in the Night Fae zone.


I love the expansion so far anyways, but it would be honestly better if it simply didn't exist at all. They wasted time and resources into it. They shouldn't have, in my opinion.

Becuase they want choice to be meaningful. Your post is nothing more than another "gimmie, gimmie, gimmie" entitlement post. This system is fine and in no way diud they waste their time and resources. God forbid you actually have to make a choice.

[prwraith]

That's what you want, not what they should be. You're not the sole arbiter on this matter. For the majority of players, you're also seriously overstating it.

To be fair, I do often forget that non mythic players exist.

[infinitemeridian]

Are people still complaining about covenants? After 1 month, it's pretty clear that the big bad balance issues people thought was going to happen never came around, at least not due to covenants.