Torghast Boss design is inherently flawed.

[WskyDK]

Example:
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...death/750271/6

stand in pools to reduce max HP so steal vitality heals him for next to nothing.

[ohwell]

There aren't many classes that have an easier time in Torghast than Warlock. Even Twisted Corridors is an absolute joke. Pretty much nothing is immune to fear/horror/stun - between Mortal Coil, Shadowfury, and just plain ol' Fear, no mob should ever get an important cast off unless you let them.

I guess people have learned from the regular game that most elites and things like undead are always immune to fear - but they're not in Torghast. It's comically easy to CC things as a Warlock.

I killed the last boss in TC1 in less than 30 seconds, doing about 110k dps. Warlock is just walking through this.

The treant guy seems to have a super fast heal. I'm just saying warlock needs a baseline interrupt regardless. You didn't even in the least detract from my point by simply saying they're fine.

[T-34]

No you are objectively wrong here. Is your Mage like 140 geared and / or do you not utilize the tools you have? I melted layer 8 bosses on my Arcane Mage when he was 182 with a decent amount of Anima powers that was focused on AoE / Cleave. The boss did not even hit me on some of the pulls. Clever use of 2 Charges of Frost Nova, Shimmer, Mirror Image, Supernova and Alter Time made it a joke. I had a harder time when there was 2 elites in my way and I did not hav the Undead Polymorph to set one of them out than I ever did with an end layer boss.

You also can't convince me that you ALWAYS get cleave / add oriented powers. And if the end bosses is your struggle and the leadup is "trivial" as you say then you should always get some relevant anima powers. Fire Jugler, Grisly Icicle, Sapphire Prisim, Timebreaker's Paradox, Triune Ward, Tundrid Phial, Archmage's Legacy, Archamge's Mythos, any of the powerups for your Covenant side ability, Obleron boosts (Health mainly), Negation Well, some of the rare power ups (Like increased stats, self healing, chance to take 99% reduced damage), the cheat death one, the one that spawns healing orbs on elites / Bosses - Heck, even moving into the last boss room with some Protective Phantasma helps.

If you keep on running Torghast over and over and never get any of these (Or any equivalent for other Classes) then I'd say that you rather need to contact Blizzard support and ask them kindly to stop trolling you. That or you need to stop pretending like Torghast never gives you options for the final encounter.

For your information the guy you quoted claims that it is impossible to get groups, that all solo content is impossible.
And he will never, ever listen to advice or that other people can do it.
It is never ever his fault, always other player's or the game's fault. You are wasting your timing giving him any advice. One can only hope that other arcane mages will see your good advice.

[ohwell]

I've yet to see a boss in torghast last more than 5 seconds on any layer as a warlock, weird that random elites are more difficult than the bosses at the end of the 6 floors tbh.

Blatantly lying only hurts your statement.

[Omedon]

Wholly agree with most of this thread’s premise.

My opinion: A boss you spent literal hours successfully climbing to has no place one-shotting anyone, particularly where lives are limited, especially in a mode that’s supposed to be about enjoying crack powers.

If you can beat the staircase boss to ascend to floor 18, that floor 18 boss should be a near gimme, and not receive a whole floor’s level of a power upgrade if any power-up at all in comparison to the prior floor.

Yes some of the burden falls on the player to acknowledge “ok last floor actually moved my health and this floor is making me stop and heal/eat a lot,” and the potential to stop there, but there has to be some kind of consideration for that “actually in over my head now” moment not happening at literally the last fight or two.

I also disagree with widgety gimmicked brawlers guild fights as a gate for what is ultimately a pure power creep game, and again with hours invested in a limited-death climb.

[Krakan]

Wholly agree with most of this thread’s premise.

My opinion: A boss you spent literal hours successfully climbing to has no place one-shotting anyone, particularly where lives are limited, especially in a mode that’s supposed to be about enjoying crack powers.

If you can beat the staircase boss to ascend to floor 18, that floor 18 boss should be a near gimme, and not receive a whole floor’s level of a power upgrade if any power-up at all in comparison to the prior floor.

Yes some of the burden falls on the player to acknowledge “ok last floor actually moved my health and this floor is making me stop and heal/eat a lot,” and the potential to stop there, but there has to be some kind of consideration for that “actually in over my head now” moment not happening at literally the last fight or two.

I also disagree with widgety gmmicked brawlers guild fights as a gate for what is ultimately a pure power creep game, and again with hours invested in a limited-death climb.

I disagree in most cases... the exception being the boss that eats your upgrades in solo corridors. Ran into it on layer 6 and it effectly ended my run as the game couldn't properly calculate me losing so much hp so suddenly and killed me when it removed my hp modification. ( I think it removed all the percentages at once rather then one at a time).

I was able to redo the layer and get another boss and clear it buts it's annoying to run into a unwinnable fight after over an hour of play. Bosses that are skill checks o have no issues with.

[Zyky]

Please provide literally any examples.
I've yet to see a torghast boss (as bear, resto, or boomy) that has mechanics I don't have something in my toolkit to beat

Ya, gratz, you play an overpowered class with overtuned covenant and anima abilities lol. Meanwhile if you play a Hunter, Warrior, Windwalker, or Rogue and you don't get good luck on anima powers the run is dead at the last boss(sometimes earlier depending on which bosses spawn prior).

I've had runs several times fail at the last boss on my Warrior on layer 6-8 because I didn't get any Condemn powers(there's only 2, 1 stacks 4 times, the other doesn't stack at all) and Condemn is 75% of any Warrior's damage output, for Fury specifically there's not a single Raging Blow anima power and the only Bloodthirst power is cooldown reduction, which is pretty useless with how little damage it does. Rampage has 2 powers, one is a flat damage increase by 20%, but because Fury is by far the worst melee spec in the game right now their rage consumer does only a little big more than the 2 main generators. The other for Rampage makes it so it casts Whirlwind after you use Rampage...Whirlwind does 800 damage...there's then one ability to buff Whirlwind damage, but it never reaches a point of significance. There's also a Rage generation increase power, but that's pretty worthless because Rampage does piss poor damage. Toss the absurdly low damage on top of the bosses hitting for 15% of my max health every 2 seconds, g fucking g it's over without the best anima power.

The situation is pretty much the same for Arms, as Arm's primary damage output is ALSO Condemn(which if you're unaware is only usable above 80% and below 35%)...Mortal Strike hits for shit, Overpower hits for shit...and more often than not Arms has it worse because they can't even get some self-healing out of their spec...

[crusadernero]

Torghast is quite weird. You roflstomp every mob until last boss(that takes a while to reach) only for you to struggle cause you picked wrong powers.

TBH, my biggest issue with the place is the amount of time it takes before it gets challenging. its just a snorefest until the last boss and then you find out if you can do it or not depending on the powers you picked from random generator.

I loved Mage tower and I did it alot. I did it alot when it was hard and on most classes I didnt make it, but I did on a few. That was awesome and didnt take forever.

[cparle87]

I think the biggest issue is people just pick the 'wow aoe' powers and forget the main objective of the run is the end boss.

Just be aware of that and pick boss-oriented powers and you will just smash it.

I'm pretty sure most people have figured that out after 6 weeks, and avoid getting baited into wrong power choices. It's really not that hard.

Also, most bosses have like one mechanic that you need to deal with (interrupt certain spell most often), and it doesn't take more than an attempt to understand.

That said, if you're severely undergeared, pick wrong powers and ignore the mechanics, i'm actually glad the game punishes you.

This coming from a player with (more than a healthy amount of) alts at max level, spanning most roles and classes.

People also need to remember that these are not normal end of instance bosses. They are not immune to any kind of CC you can throw at them? Got a nasty caster? Interrupt one, stun two, knockback three, repeat. Everything works on them. Even just rooting them and sitting there, though not for too long.

[Omedon]

I disagree in most cases... the exception being the boss that eats your upgrades in solo corridors. Ran into it on layer 6 and it effectly ended my run as the game couldn't properly calculate me losing so much hp so suddenly and killed me when it removed my hp modification. ( I think it removed all the percentages at once rather then one at a time).

I was able to redo the layer and get another boss and clear it buts it's annoying to run into a unwinnable fight after over an hour of play. Bosses that are skill checks o have no issues with.

That power-eating boss is part of why I won’t solo a long Torghast run that I don’t knowingly overgear, ever. It doesn’t belong in literally the only place it exists haha!

I love Torghast, but I won’t trust its roulette wheel with a large time investment unless it’s in my favor.

For me, Torghast is a thing to go do, not a thing to go attempt.

[Shaetha]

While he is exaggerating, it is true that you hit the point in Endless, even on layer 1, where elite enemies are killing you in one or two strikes. Getting around that isnt a skill problem, its a "praying you got the right anima" problem.

This includes pets and tank by the way, who also get obliterated in moments.

Endless Torghast as it stands isnt a place to test player skill. Its a place to test player luck.

Endless is also solely vanity content.

[Vilendor]

As a feral i haven't meet a single boss that was remotely hard. At lower levels i can just easily kill them with my normal rotation and avoiding stuff, or at higher levels usually i can kill them in literally 5 seconds with all the anima buffs.

Yes, i realize there are some classes struggling a little bit more than others, but in my raiding team there is no one who can't finish a thorgast boss...

OP needs to do the Maw reputation for the upgrades, get ilvl180+ or learn to select better buffs and find the synergies in the buffs.

(Also the new third wing is easy as hell too. I finished layer 5 yesterday before bedtime and i expect to easily finish the last 3 today. Actually i died twice, both times by falling off the fricking chains)

[Kumorii]

These threads remind me how good Hunter is and why I love playing it.
I've never died to an end boss, only traps when I was being dumb on the Ember level.

Are anima powers really that bad for Rogue and Mage?

No, powers for mage are broken... Think I managed 350k dps on last boss, he died in 14s.

[GreenJesus]

What spec do you play? Easy to not have a problem with it if you play a spec that has great anima powers. Play a spec with worthless anima powers like BM hunter. You will then see how people can have a problem with it.

Then play MM hunter. You do know that BM hunter is literally a meme right now right?

[Deneios]

Yeah the tree can go jump in a woodchipper

The boss design is just lazy. Either you just get lucky and get all the dps powers and just burst boss down in 30sec or the rng screws you over and you get mostly utility powers.
If the bosses have really dangerous skills then there should be a way to dodge them. The crush is a prime example. The tree slams down its fist but its a roomwide aoe. Either let me dodge by not being in melee or jump. Then you could have a faster cast on it. Now you either burst it down or play perfectly and stacking damage screws you over when you dont have stuns left. Its either nuke it from orbit or perma stun.

[Coldkil]

Torghast to me isn't difficult, but mostly badly tuned. I mean, it's doable, but some classes have it done super easy in solo, while others are really struggling - and that's a combination of powers not being balanced and classes toolkit not being very tuned towards this kind of content.

It's the same as M+, or rifts in D3. When you start pushing hp and damage of monsters and scale them up, some classes/builds just come out on top because some synergies were not really considered, or better, the lack of them in certain cases.

I "solved" the issue by playing it with a friend. Me as rogue, and he as cat druid. Damage wise we're on the same level, because it's mostly due to what kind of powers you find. Weekly standard layer 8 is a breeze. We did IC layer 1 pretty easily, with him getting the "you do truckload of damage but lose 15% max hp each floor", ending with him doing like 250k dps on last boss but dying as soon it got out of all cc and touched him lol.

What i've seen is that scaling is all over the place. It's a pretty long run, with no checkpoints or anything, meaning that you have to start from scratch if anything fails. I don't pretend to have it done tomorrow - hell, i'm just going to do it when i have free time, but surely it needs some tuning.

What i'm curious about is to know if Blizzard aims it to be a solo or group targeted activity. I don't even know if there's specific achievements for doing it solo or not.

[erifwodahs]

All of the end bosses (each 6 level chunk) are literally examples.

You do trivial content to get to them, and then the bosses are 100x harder than anything you've touched before.

It doesn't matter if you can 'get them down' because you are lucky enough to be able to tank or heal yourself - they are overtuned in comparison to the 5 floors leading up to them.

It also doesn't help that 95% of the anima powers created are useless against the end boss, meaning there is little chance of having anything more than your normal dps against them at the end.

Torghast is same as the magetower in Legion, instead of blaming themselves playing like shit they blame tuning. Some classes have it harder, but it's doable.
Tell that to my mage. No real way to heal besides anima powers, but you can be smart about them. It's not like it's not possible to be fucked with RNG, but it's players choice to pick dmg over "your fire blast launches enemy into the air" which is insane boss cc.
95% ?
Well, if we are pulling numbers out of our assess... 95% players who can't kill the bosses are not planning to synergize their powers in the long run and just pick "this one looks cool" and then complain.

[Devilyaki]

Is layer one of the new place really killing people so bad. Even with just your 190 gear you get handed out this week it shouldn’t be too bad. I had almost 100 powers, even shit ones get rather nice the more you stack. I’ll try on a weak characters to see for sure but first stage shouldn’t be a wall..

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Torghast is same as the magetower in Legion, instead of blaming themselves playing like shit they blame tuning. Some classes have it harder, but it's doable.
Tell that to my mage. No real way to heal besides anima powers, but you can be smart about them. It's not like it's not possible to be fucked with RNG, but it's players choice to pick dmg over "your fire blast launches enemy into the air" which is insane boss cc.
95% ?
Well, if we are pulling numbers out of our assess... 95% players who can't kill the bosses are not planning to synergize their powers in the long run and just pick "this one looks cool" and then complain.

Sorry no it is nothing like mage tower at all. I have no problem with it too but there is no comparison here.
Mage tower could be done is shit gear if you had the time and skill, this not so much, it will be a gear check.

[LilSaihah]

This is kinda how Slay the Spire is supposed to work - either you've got the cards and artifacts to make a build that scales powerfully enough to defeat the boss, or you don't.

[erifwodahs]

Is layer one of the new place really killing people so bad. Even with just your 190 gear you get handed out this week it shouldn’t be too bad. I had almost 100 powers, even shit ones get rather nice the more you stack. I’ll try on a weak characters to see for sure but first stage shouldn’t be a wall..

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Sorry no it is nothing like mage tower at all. I have no problem with it too but there is no comparison here.
Mage tower could be done is shit gear if you had the time and skill, this not so much, it will be a gear check.

Endless is cosmetic rewards only.
All classes can do it.
Gear made it easier in MT, it makes it easier here.
Players will blame everyone and everything before they blame themselves or their skill.
Bad RNG still can happen, but it's not 95% of the time. People need to unlock TG upgrades or their main.
People go into high level torghast floors on their crap alts with no legendary items/conduits/soulbinds unlocked.

I did TG lvl 8s on my severely undergeared frost mage because I had to make a point. It took 2-3 times longer than my main paladin (OP in TG) but I made it and while that is no evidence I just showed some of my fellow guild/friend mages that it is about player skill and choice rather than finding something to blame. Tuning is harsh for mages, but a lot of that can be mitigated by smart power choices even if you get shit ones as there is a choice. I knew that lvl8 is not designed for for 185 alts who have no legendary or even the conduits