Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[PhaelixWW]

I'm curious what your definition of "broke" is if "admits under oath they are worth at most nothing and can't pay their debts" doesn't fit.

I mean, that's not what "worth at most nothing" means, either. And Chapters 7 and 13 mean you "can't pay your debts". Chapter 11 means that you can pay your debts, but you're requesting protection while you go about doing it.

[Breccia]

Chapter 11 means that you can pay your debts, but you're requesting protection while you go about doing it.

I was under the impression Chapter 11 meant you didn't go about doing it, you had a federal court do it for you. Which is one of the reasons businesses don't do this very often.

[PhaelixWW]

I was under the impression Chapter 11 meant you didn't go about doing it, you had a federal court do it for you. Which is one of the reasons businesses don't do this very often.

That's what happens in 7 and 13. In 11, you have to make a plan, and you have to stick to it, but you're protected from things like lawsuits while you do.

In some situations, the bankruptcy court can determine that you can't run your own business, so it places a trustee in charge of your company, but most of the time you're just able to keep on going largely with business as usual.

[YUPPIE]

With everything that happened, it's said Biden is going to further be encouraged to systematically tear down everything and anything Trump did "in the name of America" since anything associated with Donald Trump for now is synonymous with terrorism. But I think he should not undo Trump's policies with Taiwan and going against the CCP.

Trump was the most pro-Taiwan president ever seen and the only one that never cowed to China and did something, whatever you make of it. Clinton condemned China, lectured on human rights. Threatened to cancel most favored nation trading status, but does not. Bush - same as above Obama - same as above. Even if it's for the wrong reasons, Trump actually went farther and went on a full-blown trade war with a 25% tariff on all Chinese goods, which placed a great strain on their manufacturing sector. It also emboldened Xi Jinping to become more of an openly insane tyrant and escalating a shit ton of tensions worldwide against China's regime.

From what I've seen as well, in his last days, he is putting more and more sanctions on them over the genocide and torture in Xianjiang, increasingly pissing of the CCP. It puts Joe in a dilemma because if he just sweeps all this out the door, it would be very unflattering to Americans with the nationalist Anti-China sentiments going on now over COVID.

[Machismo]

With everything that happened, it's said Biden is going to further be encouraged to systematically tear down everything and anything Trump did "in the name of America" since anything associated with Donald Trump for now is synonymous with terrorism. But I think he should not undo Trump's policies with Taiwan and going against the CCP.

Trump was the most pro-Taiwan president ever seen and the only one that never cowed to China and did something, whatever you make of it. Clinton condemned China, lectured on human rights. Threatened to cancel most favored nation trading status, but does not. Bush - same as above Obama - same as above. Even if it's for the wrong reasons, Trump actually went farther and went on a full-blown trade war with a 25% tariff on all Chinese goods, which placed a great strain on their manufacturing sector. It also emboldened Xi Jinping to become more of an openly insane tyrant and escalating a shit ton of tensions worldwide against China's regime.

From what I've seen as well, in his last days, he is putting more and more sanctions on them over the genocide and torture in Xianjiang, increasingly pissing of the CCP. It puts Joe in a dilemma because if he just sweeps all this out the door, it would be very unflattering to Americans with the nationalist Anti-China sentiments going on now over COVID.

No he wasn't, that's anoutright lie.

"Some people are saying..."

Nah, that's you Trump supporters saying that.

[Breccia]

That's what happens in 7 and 13. In 11, you have to make a plan, and you have to stick to it, but you're protected from things like lawsuits while you do.

So let's recap.
1) You don't have to be broke. You just need to have debt matching your value, which you said many companies already do.
2) You don't give up control over who gets paid and how much.
3) People who you owe money can't collect it until you're ready.
4) And you're protected from lawsuits.

...why wouldn't every company on Earth declare bankruptcy all the time for eveything? Again, you're making it sound like the NRA has an instant "I win" button that always works, and they're claiming they're “in its strongest financial condition in years.” Why didn't they use it before, pay off even less of their debt, and be in even better shape?

And before you say "there's a negative stigma" there wouldn't be, if everyone filed Chapter 11 all the time for everything.

[Felya]

From what I've seen as well, in his last days, he is putting more and more sanctions on them over the genocide and torture in Xianjiang, increasingly pissing of the CCP. It puts Joe in a dilemma because if he just sweeps all this out the door, it would be very unflattering to Americans with the nationalist Anti-China sentiments going on now over COVID.

Let me know when Trump closes his bank account in China, then we can discuss this further. What US president in the entirety of history, had as much business in China, as Trump? Name one that is even close...

That’s the fun of Trump support...

Trump’s Support: We need to stop coast elites!
Trump: Is a NYC oligarch...

Trump’s Support: We need to stop globalization!
Trump: Has a vodka brand in Israel, manufacturing in China and a lot of Asia in general, golf courses and hotels all over Europe...

Trump’s Support: We need to stop China!
Trump: Has and has had business in China since the 80s.

The person you want to stop, is actually Trump... lol

[Paranoid Android]

The 15 most notable lies of Donald Trump's presidency

Composed by Daniel Dale, who for past 4 plus years has been the documentarian of Trump lies published his biggest. Amazing at some of the lies, this person told us.

[Breccia]

The 15 most notable lies of Donald Trump's presidency

Good to see "windmills cause cancer" made the list. It's one of the most conventional Trump lies, in that
a) it flies in the face of science
b) he has no evidence
c) "I heard, everyone's saying it"
d) it's made-up shit to attack an enemy

Actually @YUPPIE you just crawled back out from your bunker, why don't you defend this? Why don't you defend Trump saying that the noise from windmills cause cancer? In fact, there's another 14 right behind that. You're a Trump supporter, surely you'll leap at the chance.

[Cthulhu 2020]

It'd be hilarious if Guiliani had to sue Trump to get paid.
----
Trump instigated a mob...and now his own mob is either turning on him or abandoning him.

Let's be fair here: Trump abandoned them first. When it came time to be held accountable for his actions in inciting the mob he shit his pants and released a "Pwease don't hurt me, the mob acted on their own!" statement.

[Felya]

It'd be hilarious if Guiliani had to sue Trump to get paid.
----
Trump instigated a mob...and now his own mob is either turning on him or abandoning him.

Guiliani and the mob, in the same comment... these be dangerous waters...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulton_Fish_Market

[Templar 331]

Not only did Georgia go blue....

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/15/u...-election.html

The Fulton County district attorney is weighing an inquiry into possible election interference and is said to be considering hiring an outside counsel.

Imagine if Georgia got Trump before NYSD did.

[Felya]

Fulton County

Our two posts back to back is a bit creepy...

[Breccia]

"The Fulton County district attorney is weighing an inquiry into possible election interference and is said to be considering hiring an outside counsel."

You left out the important part.

Atlanta Prosecutor Appears to Move Closer to Trump Inquiry

Yeah, I know, it's implied from the thread and your general tone. Still, we're dealing with Trump supporters, you have to spell it out for them.

Prosecutors in Georgia appear increasingly likely to open a criminal investigation of Trump over his attempts to overturn the results of the state’s 2020 election, an inquiry into offenses that would be beyond his federal pardon power.

The new Fulton County district attorney, Fani Willis, is already weighing whether to proceed, and among the options she is considering is the hiring of a special assistant from outside to oversee the investigation, according to people familiar with her office’s deliberations.

At the same time, David Worley, the lone Democrat on Georgia’s five-member election board, said this week that he would ask the board to make a referral to the Fulton County district attorney by next month. Among the matters he will ask prosecutors to investigate is a phone call Mr. Trump made in which he pressured Georgia’s secretary of state to overturn the state’s election results.

Some veteran Georgia prosecutors said they believed Mr. Trump had clearly violated state law.

“If you took the fact out that he is the president of the United States and look at the conduct of the call, it tracks the communication you might see in any drug case or organized crime case,” said Michael J. Moore, the former United States attorney for the Middle District of Georgia. “It’s full of threatening undertone and strong-arm tactics.”

He said he believed there had been “a clear attempt to influence the conduct of the secretary of state, and to commit election fraud, or to solicit the commission of election fraud.”

[solinari6]

I wonder if Kemp would pardon Trump for that?

[Kathranis]

I wonder if Kemp would pardon Trump for that?

If Trump wanted pardons maybe he shouldn't have burned so many bridges.

[gondrin]

So let's recap.
1) You don't have to be broke. You just need to have debt matching your value, which you said many companies already do.
2) You don't give up control over who gets paid and how much.
3) People who you owe money can't collect it until you're ready.
4) And you're protected from lawsuits.

...why wouldn't every company on Earth declare bankruptcy all the time for eveything? Again, you're making it sound like the NRA has an instant "I win" button that always works, and they're claiming they're “in its strongest financial condition in years.” Why didn't they use it before, pay off even less of their debt, and be in even better shape?

And before you say "there's a negative stigma" there wouldn't be, if everyone filed Chapter 11 all the time for everything.

Well, quite a few companies do. The only reason why they don't is because they have to generally prove their debt isn't too great to cause closure but too much to handle at this time and requires a renegotiation of said debt. That is why it is titled the Reorganization bankruptcy. There is one thing to note though. If you do file a Chap 11 bankruptcy, you generally have to ask the court if you can sell some asset that wasn't already in agreement to sell and anything like that has to be used to pay against the debt whereas a chap 7 basically just liquidates everything and goes to employees, taxes owed, debtors then shareholders/owners in that order.

Most companies will use Chapter 11 first before deciding if they need to do a chapter 7 IF the long term outlook can be salvageable.

[Rasulis]

My research into the topic showed there were several options.
1) They could move to Texas, but be the same organization, or
2) They could disband and reform in Texas
seem like the most obvious.

That second one sounds like a real pain in the ass, but arguably the best way to survive with $0.

- - - Updated - - -





That's the new line, people. "Everything was perfect until Trump instigated a riot"

It is the other way around. First they will move. Or at least get an address in Houston and register in TX. Then they will file in the Southern Texas Bankruptcy Court District which is where large companies/organizations worldwide come to restructure (file Chapter 11).

The court has the largest number of experienced judges and a chief judge that came from the private corporate bankruptcy sector. In fact, he was the one that restructured the court procedures back in 2011. Whereas in other districts highly-complex large dollar Chapter 11 cases can take months to process and even well over a year. This court specialized in getting billion-dollar cases through in weeks.

As an industry, corporate bankruptcy is second only to oil and gas in Houston. Every major bankruptcy law firms in the world have a major presence in Houston. A friend of mine is a partner at one of those, Haynes & Boone, and she mentioned that there were over 700 billion-dollar cases on the court docket late last year. More than 10 times the rest of country combined.

[Breccia]

It is the other way around. First they will move. Or at least get an address in Houston and register in TX. Then they will file in the Southern Texas Bankruptcy Court District which is where large companies/organizations worldwide come to restructure (file Chapter 11).

Actually I'm moderately sure they've done both of those. They have an LLC down there or something.

[PhaelixWW]

So let's recap.
1) You don't have to be broke. You just need to have debt matching your value, which you said many companies already do.
2) You don't give up control over who gets paid and how much.
3) People who you owe money can't collect it until you're ready.
4) And you're protected from lawsuits.

...why wouldn't every company on Earth declare bankruptcy all the time for eveything? Again, you're making it sound like the NRA has an instant "I win" button that always works, and they're claiming they're “in its strongest financial condition in years.” Why didn't they use it before, pay off even less of their debt, and be in even better shape?

And before you say "there's a negative stigma" there wouldn't be, if everyone filed Chapter 11 all the time for everything.

Because you do lose some control when you go into bankruptcy, even Chapter 11. There are requirements for the repayment plan which the court has to approve. You also have to "get out of debt", even if you might take years to do so, unlike the normal operating procedure of many corporations which just stay in debt all the time.

And yes, there's a negative stigma. And no, not every company would be able to do Chapter 11 at the same time because most companies don't run with a d/a ratio that high. We're mostly talking the retail sector. And the negative stigma passes on to the consumer, who may be less likely to shop at a company under Chapter 11. Very few companies actually need the protection, so you'd never convince even every company who was qualified to do so into a simultaneous Chapter 11.

Under Chapter 11, no debt is "forgiven", so it doesn't benefit companies that are already doing well. And you do lose a certain amount of control over who gets paid when, as your creditors are tiered by legal requirement.